Because it was definitely stated he was horrified when Qui-Gon died (as evidenced by his Vader style NOOOOOOOOOO, and books) And switched to Soresu fearing Ataru had a pathetic defence.

 

Exactly true. Kenobi didn't want to share Qui-Gon's fate.

Exactly true. Kenobi didn't want to share Qui-Gon's fate.

 

Still confused as to why he used Ataru against Dooku, was it to end things quickly (or try)?

Regardless if Dooku was indeed more powerful than Anakin, he would not have tired.

 

What are you talking about? He was fighting Anakin+Obi Wan and took out one, why wouldn't he be tired?

 

Dooku may possess greater technique and experience however this is outweighed I'm afraid by Anakin's raw power. Anakin has a great deal of technique and experience as well, he is one of the greatest masters of Djem So and one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in the Order, on top of this he has engaged in several lightsaber duels and throughout the Clone Wars has refined and improved his technique through battle experience. Combined with raw power he simply surpasses Dooku. Understand that the whole purpose of the duel was to assess Anakin's abilities in comparison to Dooku, Anakin came out on top and proved himself worthy of being Sidious' apprentice.

 

No he didn't, he was even able to turn down Anakin's rage, and even in the 1V2 battle, he had a few chances to defeat Anakin if Obi Wan didn't come to aid.

 

He knew Djem So' weakness of mobility well, and attempted to attack Anakin's lowehalf but was stopped by Obi Wan.

 

Yes he surpassed Dooku on raw power, but raw power is not the only strength, that's why he lost to Obi Wan in the end of RotS, skill, calm mind and experience is also very important in a battle, and it was pointed out clearly in the fight.

 

 

 

Regardless we are losing sight of the original purpose of this argument, that unlike with Dooku vs Anakin and Kenobi, Sidious is not surpassed in anyway by his opponents. With Windu he is an equal match, but the rest are considerably inferior to his abilities, and as such with teamwork they would not have fared nearly as well as Anakin and Kenobi who were far closer (and in the case of Anakin - greater) to Dooku's abilities.

 

Again, like the Maul fight against Sidious, they could have formed a better team, Mace Windu stick with Palpatine, Shaak Tii uses her Makashi to find space to attack, Cin would also be a good choice because he was good on 6 forms.

Damn, been so long since I read those books...

 

However, it's pretty obvious why he was using it... You don't wear someone like Dooku out, it can't be done, you can't just defend his shots and hope he makes a stupid mistake... Was probably Kenobis attempt at ending it quickly, doesn't mean Soresu wasn't his main fighting style...

 

Because it was definitely stated he was horrified when Qui-Gon died (as evidenced by his Vader style NOOOOOOOOOO, and books) And switched to Soresu fearing Ataru had a pathetic defence.

Kenobi never completely abandoned Ataru, he just took up Soresu as his primary form. Remember Ataru and Soresu work very well together, and Kenobi implemented much of Ataru's moves into his form.

What are you talking about? He was fighting Anakin+Obi Wan and took out one, why wouldn't he be tired?

 

 

 

No he didn't, he was even able to turn down Anakin's rage, and even in the 1V2 battle, he had a few chances to defeat Anakin if Obi Wan didn't come to aid.

 

He knew Djem So' weakness of mobility well, and attempted to attack Anakin's lowehalf but was stopped by Obi Wan.

 

Yes he surpassed Dooku on raw power, but raw power is not the only strength, that's why he lost to Obi Wan in the end of RotS, skill, calm mind and experience is also very important in a battle, and it was pointed out clearly in the fight.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, like the Maul fight against Sidious, they could have formed a better team, Mace Windu stick with Palpatine, Shaak Tii uses her Makashi to find space to attack, Cin would also be a good choice because he was good on 6 forms.

Was Kenobi tired after his fierce duel with Savage and Maul - in which he used Ataru, a highly taxing form? No. After injuring Savage he got back up and was ready to fight.

 

Did Maul tire after defending against an Ataru onslaught from one of the greatest Jedi lightsaber duelists of his day and his equally exceptional apprentice? No he did not.

 

Simply engaging multiple opponents for a short amount of time should not tire you out, heck Dooku held his own against three Nighsisters and Asajj Ventress while under the influence of poison for far longer than he did against Kenobi and Anakin, and yet still was able to release a highly powerful blast of Force lightning while raising them off their feet and proceeding to throw them all out the window! Clearly their is some disparity here, and the only explanation is that the attacks, especially Anakin's, were too powerful and too skilled for Dooku to full handle without tiring. Despite this, being a Makashi specialist, a form that encourages economy and efficiency, essentially a conservation of resources, I find it hard to believe that Dooku grew very tired. So I'd like to see evidence of that.

 

Really I suggest you read the novel again, because it makes quite clear that Dooku simply couldn't handle the impact of Anakin's attacks - of which the duel on Naboo is an obvious allusion to - and was overwhelmed. Regardless of skill, Anakin's raw power made him superior. And if Kenobi hadn't been present, the battle would have fell in Anakin's favour. Anakin is in constant use of his anger, as made clear in LOE, and as such Dooku would buckle under his assault. However in the case of Sidious, neither Windu, Tinn, Fisto or Kolar are capable of overwhelming him in such a way, they are simply not skilled enough, only Windu is on the same level.

 

Anakin and Kenobi are both on Dooku's level - and they outnumber him - do the math.

Was Kenobi tired after his fierce duel with Savage and Maul - in which he used Ataru, a highly taxing form? No. After injuring Savage he got back up and was ready to fight.

We don't know, he was knocked away by Maul and recovered later.

 

Did Maul tire after defending against an Ataru onslaught from one of the greatest Jedi lightsaber duelists of his day and his equally exceptional apprentice? No he did not.

 

Simply engaging multiple opponents for a short amount of time should not tire you out, heck Dooku held his own against three Nighsisters and Asajj Ventress while under the influence of poison for far longer than he did against Kenobi and Anakin, and yet still was able to release a highly powerful blast of Force lightning while raising them off their feet and proceeding to throw them all out the window! Clearly their is some disparity here, and the only explanation is that the attacks, especially Anakin's, were too powerful and too skilled for Dooku to full handle without tiring. Despite this, being a Makashi specialist, a form that encourages economy and efficiency, essentially a conservation of resources, I find it hard to believe that Dooku grew very tired. So I'd like to see evidence of that.

 

It depends on the opponent's strength, Anakin and Obi Wan were both strong and formed a very good team, which was different than these examples. Also"tired" means he could not use much direct attack Force Technique anymore. We don't know could Maul use it anymore since he didn't use.

 

You are simply ignoring what the book clearly said, Dooku was able to take down Anakin if it was not Obi Wan defending him, yes Anakin's attack was powerful, but it was not flawless, Dooku was able to find his weakness but Obi Wan was using Soresu to defend him.

 

 

Really I suggest you read the novel again, because it makes quite clear that Dooku simply couldn't handle the impact of Anakin's attacks - of which the duel on Naboo is an obvious allusion to - and was overwhelmed. Regardless of skill, Anakin's raw power made him superior. And if Kenobi hadn't been present, the battle would have fell in Anakin's favour. Anakin is in constant use of his anger, as made clear in LOE, and as such Dooku would buckle under his assault. However in the case of Sidious, neither Windu, Tinn, Fisto or Kolar are capable of overwhelming him in such a way, they are simply not skilled enough, only Windu is on the same level.

 

It said Makashi is not good to fight Djem So head on, which is common knowledge.

 

Again, Anakin's raw power was unable to protect him from Dooku's attack, it was Obi Wan's defense that made Dooku in trouble, and Dooku had to use most of his Force Power to remove Obi Wan from the battle.

 

Anakin and Kenobi are both on Dooku's level - and they outnumber him - do the math.

 

Again, read the book, and understand what was it showing.

Again, read the book, and understand what was it showing.

You are simply ignoring what the book clearly said, Dooku was able to take down Anakin if it was not Obi Wan defending him, yes Anakin's attack was powerful, but it was not flawless, Dooku was able to find his weakness but Obi Wan was using Soresu to defend him.

Quit hiding behind your books and actually provide me with the solid evidence please. You can't just demand that someone read something and take your perspective on it, that's not constructive debating.

 

If Anakin able to defeat Dooku in lightsaber combat on Naboo, when Dooku was supposedly capable of defeating him without Kenobi's aid. Why did Dooku lose at all? Anakin is tapping into his anger at all times. So if he could have defeated Anakin prior to Kenobi being taken out, he should have been able to defeat him 1v1 - yet he could not.

 

Savage and Maul form a very good team and in terms of raw power rival if not outclass Anakin and Kenobi. Ventress and her Nightsisters are a very good team and attack Dooku in perfect flow, combined with the fact that Dooku was poisoned and I'd say it took a whole lot more juice out of him than a brief engagement with Anakin and Kenobi. Yet he was still able to use a direct Force-based attack - a very very powerful one at that. So why exactly did he not use this power against Anakin? He did, but it simply was not enough. Its quite clearly stated in the novel that the amount of energy he uses to absorb the impact of Anakin's is greater even than the energy it took to Force push Kenobi.

 

But again your missing the point, neither Windu, Tinn, Kolar or Fisto or any other Jedi on the Council perhaps barring Yoda can surpass Sidious in any field. So the comparison is therefore moot because even you admit that Anakin was better than Dooku in certain fields, none of the Jedi have this advantage against Sidious. The disparity between Kenobi, Anakin and Dooku's abilites is far smaller than the disparity between Sidious' and any Jedi Council Member - Windu does not make up for that.

Still confused as to why he used Ataru against Dooku, was it to end things quickly (or try)?

 

Neither. Deception.

Quit hiding behind your books and actually provide me with the solid evidence please. You can't just demand that someone read something and take your perspective on it, that's not constructive debating.

 

If Anakin able to defeat Dooku in lightsaber combat on Naboo, when Dooku was supposedly capable of defeating him without Kenobi's aid. Why did Dooku lose at all? Anakin is tapping into his anger at all times. So if he could have defeated Anakin prior to Kenobi being taken out, he should have been able to defeat him 1v1 - yet he could not.

 

 

It's quite clear Dooku was holding back and testing Anakin rather than a real fight to death battle, he was also moving with Palpatine at the same time.

 

Because Obi Wan was keep sticking on him and defending Anakin, he didn't have the chance to create a 1 on 1 duel before Obi Wan went down, after that Dooku already spent too much energy to take down Obi Wan, which was made clear, and he was still able to defeat Anakin if Palpatine didn't help.

 

 

Savage and Maul form a very good team and in terms of raw power rival if not outclass Anakin and Kenobi. Ventress and her Nightsisters are a very good team and attack Dooku in perfect flow, combined with the fact that Dooku was poisoned and I'd say it took a whole lot more juice out of him than a brief engagement with Anakin and Kenobi. Yet he was still able to use a direct Force-based attack - a very very powerful one at that. So why exactly did he not use this power against Anakin? He did, but it simply was not enough. Its quite clearly stated in the novel that the amount of energy he uses to absorb the impact of Anakin's is greater even than the energy it took to Force push Kenobi.

 

Anakin and Obi Wan was a attack-defense group, Maul and Savage a bit similar, still it was never stated Obi Wan was still able to use Force Technique after cut off Savage's hand or was he able to defeat Maul after it. The Nightsisters aren't close.

 

Because Obi Wan was easier to take off It was mentioned clear that Dooku

 

He used his last burst of dark power to continue his spin

 

Dooku pretty much used all of his Force Energy after that. Even though, he would still have took down Anakin, if Palpatine didn't speak.

 

But again your missing the point, neither Windu, Tinn, Kolar or Fisto or any other Jedi on the Council perhaps barring Yoda can surpass Sidious in any field. So the comparison is therefore moot because even you admit that Anakin was better than Dooku in certain fields, none of the Jedi have this advantage against Sidious. The disparity between Kenobi, Anakin and Dooku's abilites is far smaller than the disparity between Sidious' and any Jedi Council Member - Windu does not make up for that.

 

Nor does Maul and Savage, but they could put a better fight.

 

You don't understand? Number is a advantage first, it means you can attack from different angle with multiple lightsabers. Then Windu's Vaapad was able to reflect back Sidious' own power, which negate his advantage. The others could attack when Windu was having a tie with Sidious.

 

It's quite clear Dooku was holding back and testing Anakin rather than a real fight to death battle, he was also moving with Palpatine at the same time.

 

Because Obi Wan was keep sticking on him and defending Anakin, he didn't have the chance to create a 1 on 1 duel before Obi Wan went down, after that Dooku already spent too much energy to take down Obi Wan, which was made clear, and he was still able to defeat Anakin if Palpatine didn't help.

 

 

 

 

Anakin and Obi Wan was a attack-defense group, Maul and Savage a bit similar, still it was never stated Obi Wan was still able to use Force Technique after cut off Savage's hand or was he able to defeat Maul after it. The Nightsisters aren't close.

 

Because Obi Wan was easier to take off It was mentioned clear that Dooku

 

 

 

Dooku pretty much used all of his Force Energy after that. Even though, he would still have took down Anakin, if Palpatine didn't speak.

 

 

 

Nor does Maul and Savage, but they could put a better fight.

 

You don't understand? Number is a advantage first, it means you can attack from different angle with multiple lightsabers. Then Windu's Vaapad was able to reflect back Sidious' own power, which negate his advantage. The others could attack when Windu was having a tie with Sidious.

We seem to be misintepreting duels again here, it seems much more evident in that battle that Dooku was struggling to hold Anakin off, given the fact that he had to disengage from the duel and force Anakin back with projectiles, because he couldn't not handle the pressure. And regardless of whether he was retreating with Sidious he was still knocked back and almost killed, despite being confident that he could defeat Anakin, whereas instead he was forced to retreat. If Dooku indeed was capable of defeating Anakin in lightsaber combat, I ask again, why didn't he?

 

Your also beginning to skirt around argument here. Anakin constantly uses his anger to fuel with lightsaber attacks, Palpatine did little to improve that, Anakin was already using his aggressive feelings in that battle so Dooku, by your theory, should not have been overpowered. Regardless you don't have much of a point here, all your trying to prove is that Anakin not using his anger fully is less powerful than Dooku, but even then you admit that Anakin possesses more raw skill, advantages that no Jedi has over Sidious bar Yoda.

 

Concerning Kenobi, if he had tired in a similar manner to Dooku, then surely he would have been overpowered by Savage and Maul's absolutely vicious attacks? Yet despite using Ataru - while Dooku was using Ataru - he managed to hold out. And after the battle showed a desire to keep fighting, indicating that he was confident in his abilities and more importantly his stamina, given that that would have been the perfect opportunity to retreat. Both instances point to him not being overly exhausted, yet for some reason Dooku was exhausted against two less aggressive opponents (at least combined) in a shorter amount of time. And you've yet to provide any evidence to support this. And no, after your interpretation of the duel with Sidious I am not inclined to take your word for it.

 

And concerning the Nightsisters, you are ignoring the fact that Dooku was poisoned. Which visibly sapped his energy and exhausted him, to the point where he simply collapsed. And yet despite this he was still able to unleash Force lightning and toss his assailants out the window in a seriously impressive display of power. Please explain how this is possible when a brief engagement with Kenobi and Anakin drained his Force powers.

 

And finally concerning Maul and Savage, I stand by my belief that they are at least equal if not more powerful than Tinn, Kolar and Fisto combined as a whole. And my various reasons for why they were in a better position than the Jedi when dueling Sidious. The duel itself is living proof of this. Though most importantly they were not caught of guard, which any Jedi strike team would have been in that situation, and therefore quickly cut down before they could organise. And again, Windu and Fisto attacked Sidious from both sides, and it did nothing. It doesn't work.

So apparently we'll still be discussing Dooku?

So apparently we'll still be discussing Dooku?

 

Apparently though not sure why, it's clearly shown Anakin surpassed Dooku.

ya what wolf said I read Revenge of the sith recently, Dooku had lost that match out right there is a point in the book that says each blow from Anakin taxed him more then throwing Kenobi across the room with the force, that every single blow felt like it aged him 10 years.

We clearly saw Windu moved back to Sidious, and Windu didn't follow Sidious when Sidious turns around.

 

 

 

No, Anakin didn't surpass Dooku, he was able to defeat Dooku only because Dooku used too much Force power

to take down Obi Wan, even though, Dooku was able to turn off Anakin's anger with taunt, then Sidious joined it and taught Anakin to control his anger.

 

No, Maul and Savage is good example of teamwork. Was Sidious able to kill any of them in seconds? No.

 

 

 

No, they knew Sidious is Sith, they already drew out their lightsabers and prepare to fight. Yes Windu didn't prepare good enough. Again, even Kolar was able to make a sway, why couldn't him? As long as he tries to face Sidious' power, Vaapad would give him enough power.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? Are you saying Maul+Savage>Fisto+Tiin+Kolar+Mace Windu? Because they didn't die so quickly like these 3 did. Even in 1 on 1, it took Sidious a few round to kill Savage.

 

Maul wasn't even able to defeat Jabba's guards easily, and even in 2V1, Obi Wan could cut off Savage's hand.

 

So the answer is obvious, they weren't ready.

 

 

 

The Jedi were rdy, they knew Sidious is Sith, they knew it would be a big fight. It was they went to capture Sidious, Maul and Savage was caught in surprise because they didn't expect Sidious to come and hurt them.

 

 

 

The masters also fought many strong opponents, they also train with Yoda and Windu to test their skills.

You are admitting lack of team work.

 

 

Sidious wasn't toying with them totally, he had to push away Maul to kill Savage, even when he was against the fully enraged Maul, he had to use Force Technique. He also cracked a lot against Yoda, so he didn't fight seriously? No.

 

 

 

He was able to kill Qui Gon because Obi Wan was unable to get in due to the energy barrier, and Obi Wan was not even a knight at that time, only a padawan.

 

 

 

That's clearly not the case since we see what happened to Maul and Savage.

Seeing as I've already got dragged back into this debate, I may as well address these points...

 

When Sidious engaged Fisto and Windu, Fisto was the source of his intial focus. Then Windu intervened and the tempo of the duel changed as Windu took the brunt of the assault while Fisto attacked from behind. However Sidious simply engaged them simultaneous, cutting Fisto up as he fended off Windu. There is no possible way Windu could have protected Fisto, he could have tried to run around the flank of his opponent and intercept the attack, but twirling on the spot is a much faster move, and regardless of the speed of the opponent it is impossible he could have made it. This is the problem. If the other Jedi can't handle the heat for even a second Windu has to intervene at every moment, they are pulling him down. Effectively acting as deadweights in the battle and getting in the way, leading Windu to overexpose himself as he tries to protect them. Really Windu would have been better off by himself, simply put no other Jedi was good enough to fight on par with him.

 

Now of course here we can point to Sidious and Maul, but you grossly underestimate them. Maul was a master lightsaber duelist who had been trained by Sidious himself. He was an absolute master of Juyo and Jar'Kai and took Niman to Exar Kun like levels, effectively giving him a level of mastery over all seven lightsaber forms. And his ability to hold of two powerful Ataru users simultaneously points to a mastery over the saberstaff. Maul was trained by Sidious to be a living weapon, and Sidious does not shirk when it comes to training his apprentices. Maul was a better duelist that any of the Jedi on the Council save Windu, Yoda and perhaps Kenobi. Which accounts for his exceptional performance against Sidious. And of course he had backup, Savage Opress should not be underestimated either. He was an exceptionally powerful Force user imbued with Nightsister magic and could effectively bulldoze through even the most skilled Jedi masters. So yes, they are more skilled than Fisto, Tinn and Kolar combined (I said nothing about Windu, you might want to give that a re-read.)

 

And on top of that we have the exceptional circumstances, lets go through them again:

 

1. Now I'm seeing some contradictions here, one point your saying the Jedi weren't ready and then you say they were? Which one is it? The latter I would think, they may have been aware that Sidious was a Sith, but they were not prepared for his lightning Force speed attack and as the novel makes very clear, were caught completely off guard. Maul and Savage did not expect Sidious to turn on them, but once he threw them against the wall they were aware, they drew their lightsabers and prepared to engage. Heck they even signaled to eachother in anticipation of flanking him. The Jedi had and would not have such an advantage. They would be caught of guard every time.

 

2. But not together, that's the point. Of course each master has a wealth of battle experience with powerful adversaries, but together? They had been on one known mission against some bounty hunters, and perhaps a sparring match here and there, not that sparring matches compare to real combat, or have anything to do with working together rather than against each other. Compared to Maul and Savage, the former training the latter, and engaging on various missions with various Jedi opponents, learning how to work together in perfect sync. I never denied that teamwork will get you nowhere, in fact its often vital to success, however no Jedi Windu could have brought would have had the same bond as Savage and Maul, or Anakin and Kenobi, he simply didn't have that advantage to bring to the table. So even his teamworking skills - which only get one so far - were limited.

 

3. Here you are just rephrasing what I said, Sidious was toying with them, but yes not totally. He begins by toying with them but once Savage launches him off the balcony he starts giving it his all, and takes them both out within seconds. You'll also note a similar, but more apparent pattern in his duel with Sidious. He begins by cackling and grinning, but this quickly turns in anger and rage and we see he growling and even see him looking afraid. Sidious only cackles when the fight is going his way.

 

I'd also add to this that Savage and Maul had much more room to maneuver, whereas the Jedi got caught in a tight space. However obviously they were simply in a better position, and more skilled. You don't see Maul jumping in to protect Savage do you? No, they fight in perfect sync and don't pull eachother down. The same cannot be said for when Windu and Fisto flanked Sidious. Though despite this you'll notice that its a constant in an out, Savage and Maul keep jumping in to attack Sidious and the duel lasts a few seconds before Sidious knocks them back. Then they regroup and try again, they only fared a little better than Fisto and Windu. And only because Savage was able to keep up, and altogether they were in a much better position to fight him.

 

Perhaps if the arena had been more open, the strike team would have had more of a chance, again we see a Savage and Maul constantly retreating. Especially Savage who has enough room to simply leave the battle and intervene at the oppurtune moment, whereas the Jedi did not have that option in such an enclosed space.

 

So to summarise, the Jedi strike team had several disadvantages:

 

1. Surprise: the Jedi were caught off guard, and Sidious capitalized on this with Force speed. Meaning that in any situation at least two Jedi would be taken out in the first few seconds no matter who. The sheer confusion it caused also made it difficult for the Jedi to get organized and employ any level of teamwork.

 

2. Environment: in the Chancellor's Office their is no room to retreat, the Jedi were forced to take Sidious head on and they couldn't take the heat. This would not change regardless of tactics or whom was brought along.

 

3. Outclassed: all the Jedi except Windu were outclassed. They simply couldn't keep up with Sidious bladework and so only got in the way, and were quickly cut down. No Jedi on the Council perhaps bar Kenobi would have done better.

 

Having a better strategy and teamwork would not have helped them in this engagement, taking note that Windu and his team were more than competent Jedi and aware of how to fight together. Yet it wasn't enough to overcome these weaknesses, and changing the team would not overcome any of these weaknesses.

and took Niman to Exar Kun like levels,

 

Meh, I don't know.

Meh, I don't know.

Maul attempted to replicate Kun's fighting style. He may not have been on the same level, but he achieved a level of mastery. Really I think in general Maul is underestimate, he's easily one of the best duelists of his age.

Maul attempted to replicate Kun's fighting style. He may not have been on the same level, but he achieved a level of mastery. Really I think in general Maul is underestimate, he's easily one of the best duelists of his age.

 

That's true.

Maul attempted to replicate Kun's fighting style. He may not have been on the same level, but he achieved a level of mastery. Really I think in general Maul is underestimate, he's easily one of the best duelists of his age.

 

Maul was a Juyo user and marked Exar Kun as one as well. People seem to forget Kun didn't just master Niman he was a master of Juyo as well and if we really want to analyze the description of his form in his later years you find he isn't using his Niman mastery he is using juyo.

 

Think about it, he abandoned the moderation of Niman that fits with the philosophy of Juyo he became highly aggressive..... juyo and was incredibly fast and unpredictable....... again Juyo. In his later years Kun wasn't using Niman any more he was using Juyo.

In regards to it....Maul for saber combat, Kun for Force ability. Edited September 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Maul was a Juyo user and marked Exar Kun as one as well. People seem to forget Kun didn't just master Niman he was a master of Juyo as well and if we really want to analyze the description of his form in his later years you find he isn't using his Niman mastery he is using juyo.

 

Think about it, he abandoned the moderation of Niman that fits with the philosophy of Juyo he became highly aggressive..... juyo and was incredibly fast and unpredictable....... again Juyo. In his later years Kun wasn't using Niman any more he was using Juyo.

 

Niman mastered to the Level of Kun really implies standard Mastery of every form. Though I agree, a Dark Side user really cannot use Niman to the extent intended. Niman relies on people holding back and not going into the weakness of the other forms...

 

Him going aggressive did take him out of Niman a bit, yes, but I'd still say his sheer mastery of Saber combat really kept him in Niman, simply by allowing him to draw on all forms.

 

That's why Niman's deadly... But yes, both, in a sense, were fantastic Juyo masters.

In regards to it....Maul for saber combat, Kun for Force ability.

 

Agreed, though TCW Maul shows decent skill in Telekinesis, and chokes/crushes...

 

Maul was a fantastic duellist though, I mean come on, who else held their own against Palpatine (And arguably matched him, due to papa palps having to use force abilities both times to take him out) bar the two greatest masters of the age...

 

And then, being so rigorously trained by Palpatine (Unlike both Dooku and Vader) Due to Palpatine still being semi-anonymous as a Senator, and not under constant watch... Gotta be good for dem skillz

Edited September 6, 2013 by Selenial

Agreed, though TCW Maul shows decent skill in Telekinesis, and chokes/crushes...

 

Maul was a fantastic duellist though, I mean come on, who else held their own against Palpatine (And arguably matched him, due to papa palps having to use force abilities both times to take him out) bar the two greatest masters of the age...

 

And then, being so rigorously trained by Palpatine (Unlike both Dooku and Vader) Due to Palpatine still being semi-anonymous as a Senator, and not under constant watch... Gotta be good for dem skillz

 

As noted though Palps was toying with them, but still it's impressive regardless. Though yes in TCW Maul did more TK feats, Kun shown TK(not much but still), Force Drain/Force Blasts n so forth.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

As noted though Palps was toying with them, but still it's impressive regardless. Though yes in TCW Maul did more TK feats, Kun shown TK(not much but still), Force Drain/Force Blasts n so forth.

 

No, Palpatine was not Toying with them IMO...

 

The only time he toyed with them was waiting to kill Savage so Maul could see. He was obviously stressed Fighting them both, with Savage's raw strength, and Mauls incredible agility and Saber skills...

 

Firstly, Sidious let out a gasp after pushing them back, like a sigh mid battle, and Maul landed a hit on him clean in the face that pushed him back a few meters. If Palpy was toying with them, neither of those would have happened.

 

 

IMO of course.

 

Edit: And Maul was obviously a challenge for Sidious, or he wouldn't be so distracted to get slammed off a Balcony by Savage.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Selenial

No, Palpatine was not Toying with them IMO...

 

The only time he toyed with them was waiting to kill Savage so Maul could see. He was obviously stressed Fighting them both, with Savage's raw strength, and Mauls incredible agility and Saber skills...

 

Firstly, Sidious let out a gasp after pushing them back, like a sigh mid battle, and Maul landed a hit on him clean in the face that pushed him back a few meters. If Palpy was toying with them, neither of those would have happened.

 

 

IMO of course.

 

Edit: And Maul was obviously a challenge for Sidious, or he wouldn't be so distracted to get slammed off a Balcony by Savage.

 

He was smiling and laughing throughout some of it. Though tbh, TCW had pretty much everyone watered down in terms of their abilities and what they could actually do.

 

I really had this look o_O on my face at seeing some of the fights.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

He was smiling and laughing throughout some of it. Though tbh, TCW had pretty much everyone watered down in terms of their abilities and what they could actually do.

 

I really had this look o_O on my face at seeing some of the fights.

 

Not really, they showed Yoda's incredible power on numerous occasions... They showed windu as a complete ****** in anything he did...

 

Sidious grunted, was slammed, Kicked in the face and yelped multiple times in that fight.

 

Besides, any fight involving Sidious likely involved Lucas as well...

 

I don't know, I think even now we're underestimating Maul... If you look at it closely, you understand he'd be able to stand against Sidious for a bit, which he did, and of course we all know Maul was fuelled by rage very well, and Sidious just killed his only family....