I read once that the way to get info on the internet is not to post a question, but to post the wrong answer so that everyone will correct you. So here goes...

I've been leveling an op as a DPS, and I was wonder how "good" he'd be. I read an opinion that operative DPSers might as well not exist, because other DPS classes are so much better. But I've started to get some of my procs now (lvl 21), and I think I'm pretty damn effective. Why? Because I can do DPS where it COUNTS man. While you maras, snipers and sorcs are wading into the front of the battle, with everyone and their brother watching you come and engaging you early... I just sneak around back and - shik, shik, shank. Dead healer. Or at least pull 1/2 the team away from the objective to protect the healer. So while I might have only done 200K in my lowbie WZ, and I see others doing 300 or 400, I feel like my 200K is more precise. The surgical strike, vs the carpet bomb.

Wha'da'ya'think?

your evaluation is correct.

operatives are far from bad. their utility and tools make them beast, if not their damage, too

Yeah, operative DPS don't really scare me. It's those dang operative healers that seem to laugh at my attempts to take them out. Almost....got him... --> stealth, H2F. Ok, this time...gonna...get him.... --> flashbang, H2F. Ok...for real...this time... --> roll away, LOL.

I know, get better teammates, one dps shouldn't be able to take out a healer, etc. Nonetheless, I'm glad that you are enjoying your class. I feel like we could use a lot more "glass half full" types around here.

Regs they are fine.

Ranked? Go heals or reroll.

Well if 200k damage in a lowbie WZ doesn't convince people, I don't know what will...

I dunno if you are making fun of me or not, but I may have exaggerated a bit to make people argue with me. But I do top 200K once in a while (so far), and those were the same WZ where I saw the 400K numbers from others. Basically, where some awesome healer kept me up the whole time, and I didn't have to waste... I mean, spend any time guarding the "off node".

Usually I do around 150-180K. And I can see that I'm often at about 1/2 - 2/3 of whatever the "top DPSers" are doing. So at least I'm not at the bottom.

Regs they are fine.

Ranked? Go heals or reroll.

Yeah? I don't quite understand the "meta" of arenas (or did you actually mean really just ranked) such that it would be different? Why is my "sneak to the back and take out the healer" not as helpful/viable in an arena. I mean, I suck at arenas anyway, no matter what class I am on... I think because I'm claustrophobic and they are so small (relatively speaking ). I know op heals are considered uber right now, but are other DPS so much better in an arena setting also?

Yeah? I don't quite understand the "meta" of arenas (or did you actually mean really just ranked) such that it would be different? Why is my "sneak to the back and take out the healer" not as helpful/viable in an arena. I mean, I suck at arenas anyway, no matter what class I am on... I think because I'm claustrophobic and they are so small (relatively speaking ). I know op heals are considered uber right now, but are other DPS so much better in an arena setting also?

You lack the defensive's and the utility that comes with other dps. They are bursty at 55 and they have pretty good sustained but they can't really pressure like other specs and they certainly wont survive either. Even with guard a OPs DPS will generally drop immediately after their opener. They "might" get a second opener but typically OPs dps are dead weight on a 4's team.

You lack the defensive's and the utility that comes with other dps. They are bursty at 55 and they have pretty good sustained but they can't really pressure like other specs and they certainly wont survive either. Even with guard a OPs DPS will generally drop immediately after their opener. They "might" get a second opener but typically OPs dps are dead weight on a 4's team.

Ah, that makes sense. I already feel a bit like "ok, I've shik'd, shanked, zapped and banged - and now he's at 10% heatlh - what do I have left?" Thanks for explaining.

Ah, that makes sense. I already feel a bit like "ok, I've shik'd, shanked, zapped and banged - and now he's at 10% heatlh - what do I have left?" Thanks for explaining.

Don't take this as they cant function. They are still really fun to play in regs (even though I'm still pissed at the removal of our knockdown) and they are doing very well in end game raiding with pretty good parsing right now. They just don't fit into the arena meta atm....which is whatever since arenas are really just dead. I hate to say it because I like arenas, but really the only server left with any consistent competitive ranked is probably the EU server TOFN.

No cross servers and the ranked community is small and scattered so all the servers are struggling with only 1 maybe 2 real teams with a few random guilds popping in here and there.

This class died with the removed knockdown. It was never good for ranked, but now is boring to play also..

Ya the knockdown was definitely the main joy of the spec.

Ya the knockdown was definitely the main joy of the spec.

Did they even explain why they removed the knockdown?

Did they even explain why they removed the knockdown?

They got a DPS increase and every baddie in the world screamed murder and the nerf kicked in less than a week later. Meanwhile deception is still far superior in terms of pvp burst and survivability.

There was zero reason to remove it. BW just caved to the crying because BW has been terrified to make this spec good since launch with the "stunlocking to unsubscribe" garbage BW posted back at launch. They literally thought teams of OPs that were stunlocking were the reason why people were unsubscribing in droves, so since then they've been terrified of the spec and it stayed **** for 2 years even though the reality of the unsubscribing was slow updates, piss poor QA, constant broken patches, no content and dead servers on top of delaying the launch of ranked 24 hours before 1.2 came out.....but ya sure, lets just blame the stunlocking team of operatives

They got a DPS increase and every baddie in the world screamed murder and the nerf kicked in less than a week later. Meanwhile deception is still far superior in terms of pvp burst and survivability.

 

There was zero reason to remove it. BW just caved to the crying because BW has been terrified to make this spec good since launch with the "stunlocking to unsubscribe" garbage BW posted back at launch. They literally thought teams of OPs that were stunlocking were the reason why people were unsubscribing in droves, so since then they've been terrified of the spec and it stayed **** for 2 years even though the reality of the unsubscribing was slow updates, piss poor QA, constant broken patches, no content and dead servers on top of delaying the launch of ranked 24 hours before 1.2 came out.....but ya sure, lets just blame the stunlocking team of operatives

While they nerfed Ops for no good reason, they overbuffed enranged defense/focused defense XD I can't understand BW's logic sometimes.

While they nerfed Ops for no good reason, they overbuffed enranged defense/focused defense XD I can't understand BW's logic sometimes.

It's as simple as:

1) Majority of people in a Star Wars game like lightsabers...

2) Make the class most people like op = you make most people happy...

3) ???????????????????

4) Profit.

Operatives are great DPS in Melee range (finally!) but if you manage to keep one at range they are easy kills.

I'd still say we need a proc to allow us use of Hidden Strike every so often outside stealth (or some means to stealth for like one second to get it off).

I would also say that Operative Concealment burst is better than Assassin Deception.

Deception has greater sustained burst over time, but the initial burst from Operative is far better in my opinion.

I can get far more kills opening from Stealth on my Operative than I do on Assassin.

It's as simple as:

 

1) Majority of people in a Star Wars game like lightsabers...

2) Make the class most people like op = you make most people happy...

3) ???????????????????

4) Profit.

That sounds exactly like "His class can do that I can't, please buff me" ^_^

Operatives are great DPS in Melee range (finally!) but if you manage to keep one at range they are easy kills.

Isn't that why they have stealth? To get in melee range? I thought that was one of the main defenses against the class was if you can pop them out of stealth? [Edit : meaning what you said up there is by design, not that you were wrong or anything.]

I also think part of the operative "charm" is the psychological effect the knife sounds have. Maybe it's only me, but I shiver a bit inside whenever one pops out of stealth and I hear those "shick", "shink" sounds going off. I suppose you completely analytical, number oriented people don't care, but I kinda feel like I'm already defeated. I don't like knives.

It's as simple as:

 

1) Majority of people in a Star Wars game like lightsabers...

2) Make the class most people like op = you make most people happy...

3) ???????????????????

4) Profit.

A good operative will **** on any Lightsaber wielding class in this game anyday. "inb4 nerfs"

I'd still say we need a proc to allow us use of Hidden Strike every so often outside stealth (or some means to stealth for like one second to get it off).

 

I would also say that Operative Concealment burst is better than Assassin Deception.

Deception has greater sustained burst over time, but the initial burst from Operative is far better in my opinion.

I can get far more kills opening from Stealth on my Operative than I do on Assassin.

Hmm, no Hidden strike will just get nerfed for like the 4th or 5th time if that ever happened

They just need to give Concealment/Lethality spec a unique way to gain a Tactical Advantage.

Where Medical Engineering has the rng on hots, it rewards healer operative/scoundrel for just maintaining hots even on targets with full hp etc.

Concealment and Lethality lack that, and ideally enough they're stuck half the time staring at a Shiv cooldown, or hesistating to consume their 1 tactical adv.

But giving a hidden strike out of stealth will just give assassins another reason to qq... and im tired of hearing that class' tear's drip on the floor to be honest

DPS operatives are like DPS assassins who have no taunts, put out less damage, and die twice as fast.

Dont forget no cooldowns

we used to deal twice as much damage as them... but apparently that "isn't fair".

Now maul literally makes Hidden strike look and feel like a joke and nobody says ****... funny

I would also say that Operative Concealment burst is better than Assassin Deception.

Deception has greater sustained burst over time, but the initial burst from Operative is far better in my opinion.

I hit about the same damage on both. I just find recklessness gives more reliable burst.

You lack the defensive's and the utility that comes with other dps. They are bursty at 55 and they have pretty good sustained but they can't really pressure like other specs and they certainly wont survive either. Even with guard a OPs DPS will generally drop immediately after their opener. They "might" get a second opener but typically OPs dps are dead weight on a 4's team.

Prety much in arena i find the first op dps and nuke them they dies so fast when a burst class can get a hold of them that the op hits like 3 times and is running for there lives all most dead. Then i wait for them to come out of stealth to heal up and kill them.

In ranked arenas, Operative dps in both 4s and solo and arsenal mercs in solo are the weakest pvp specs.

If all you want to do is regs though play whatever you want. All classes are viable for that area of pvp. But the operative's weaknesses are magnified in ranked moreso than most specs.