Seems like Annihilation is now even more the way to go for both pvp and pve. With 9% raw bleed damage and the bugfix for 30% crit damage (ok, this should have been in already, but still), the buff also appears to be quite big.

I'd have liked to see some more defense/mobility instead, but this is not bad either.

And a nerf:

Marauder

 

Obfuscate: This ability can no longer be used on Operation Boss enemies.

And a nerf:

True, but i can live with that nerf...

wait a moment.

I tought Bleedout was giving us 30% more dmg on bleeds (bug) instead of only on crits... are you saying it wasnt doing anything at all?

wait a moment.

 

I tought Bleedout was giving us 30% more dmg on bleeds (bug) instead of only on crits... are you saying it wasnt doing anything at all?

Yep.....That is kind of how i read it.

wait a moment.

 

I tought Bleedout was giving us 30% more dmg on bleeds (bug) instead of only on crits... are you saying it wasnt doing anything at all?

no, it was explained in detail a while ago

the talent was actually giving the 30% bonus at a base level, instead of just on crits

they are fixing it so it applies to only crits, but then they are also boosting the base damage though another talent

the effect is a slightly lower base damage, and a proper boost to the crits, so with decent crit rate + berserk our overall damage will go up

The old system: (you can see a small test sample and a continuation of this discussion here)

The current system tooltips do not match up with actual in game math. The currrent system is doing the following:

Bleedout is currently giving us 30% damage to all bleed effects, not crit chance.

Deep Wound is unconfirmed. Without watching and counting 1000 ticks (or combat log) we can only assume it is affecting Rupture's direct damage correctly.

Hemorrhage is adding 4% instead of 6% additional damage to bleed damage. The first point provides ~2% increase, each additional point is ~1%.

New system proposed:

Hemorrhage: 15% bleed damage increase

Bleedout: 30% critical multiplier increase

Using a the following stats as an example:

131 unmodified unskilled Rupture/Deadly Saber dot

25% crit chance

70% crit multiplier

Old System

In the old system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177 normal dot

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 * 1.7 = 301 critical dot

To explain those numbers we have the 131 base dot (no skills). We multiply that number times 1.3 for the 30% increase we WERE receiving from Bleedout. We then multiply times 1.04 for the 4% increase we WERE receiving from Hemorrhage. In the 2nd row, we multiply 1.7 for the critical multiplier.

Let's normalize that across 1000 dots. With at 25% crit chance that is 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.

177 * 750 = 132,750 normal dot damage

301 * 250 = 75,250 critical damage

Grand total = 208,000

New System

In the new system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:

131 * 1.15 = 150.65 normal dot

131 * 1.15 * 2 = 301 critical dot

131 is still our base unskilled dot. The 1.15 is the new Hemorrhage (3 points at 5% for each point = 15%). The 1.3 is the "corrected" Bleedout critical multiplier number. We are multiplying times 2 because 70% is the base critical multiplier and Bleedout provides an additional 30% critical multiplier. We would assume it is additive. If that is incorrect, the critical dot is 332 (and the final number still show new system a dps loss).

So lets normalize the new system across 1000 dots. Same as above, 25% base crit chance gives us 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.

151 * 750 = 114,000

301 * 250 = 75,250

Grand total = 189,250

What about Juyo form and Juyo Mastery? The new system does value critical chance more than the old system, but you would still need over 98% crit chance for the new system to overtake the old system.

TL;DR

The old system and new system critical dot amounts are exactly the same. All that has changed is non-crit dots will be less than the old system's non-crit dots.

Unless there is something we are missing, this is a damage decrease.

The old system: (you can see a small test sample and a continuation of this discussion here)

The current system tooltips do not match up with actual in game math. The currrent system is doing the following:

Bleedout is currently giving us 30% damage to all bleed effects, not crit chance.

Deep Wound is unconfirmed. Without watching and counting 1000 ticks (or combat log) we can only assume it is affecting Rupture's direct damage correctly.

Hemorrhage is adding 4% instead of 6% additional damage to bleed damage. The first point provides ~2% increase, each additional point is ~1%.

 

New system proposed:

Hemorrhage: 15% bleed damage increase

Bleedout: 30% critical multiplier increase

 

Using a the following stats as an example:

131 unmodified unskilled Rupture/Deadly Saber dot

25% crit chance

70% crit multiplier

 

Old System

In the old system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177 normal dot

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 * 1.7 = 301 critical dot

 

To explain those numbers we have the 131 base dot (no skills). We multiply that number times 1.3 for the 30% increase we WERE receiving from Bleedout. We then multiply times 1.04 for the 4% increase we WERE receiving from Hemorrhage. In the 2nd row, we multiply 1.7 for the critical multiplier.

 

Let's normalize that across 1000 dots. With at 25% crit chance that is 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.

177 * 750 = 132,750 normal dot damage

301 * 250 = 75,250 critical damage

Grand total = 208,000

 

New System

In the new system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:

131 * 1.15 = 150.65 normal dot

131 * 1.15 * 2 = 301 critical dot

 

131 is still our base unskilled dot. The 1.15 is the new Hemorrhage (3 points at 5% for each point = 15%). The 1.3 is the "corrected" Bleedout critical multiplier number. We are multiplying times 2 because 70% is the base critical multiplier and Bleedout provides an additional 30% critical multiplier. We would assume it is additive. If that is incorrect, the critical dot is 332 (and the final number still show new system a dps loss).

 

So lets normalize the new system across 1000 dots. Same as above, 25% base crit chance gives us 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.

151 * 750 = 114,000

301 * 250 = 75,250

Grand total = 189,250

 

What about Juyo form and Juyo Mastery? The new system does value critical chance more than the old system, but you would still need over 98% crit chance for the new system to overtake the old system.

 

TL;DR

The old system and new system critical dot amounts are exactly the same. All that has changed is non-crit dots will be less than the old system's non-crit dots.

 

Unless there is something we are missing, this is a damage decrease.

So u saying its a nerf to us? ..... What the hell........... Its not like we are in the top of the of All the cool tools there are in game lol...

Obfuscate: This ability can no longer be used on Operation Boss enemies.

Is there reason 2 use it now lol

Yup buff the tree that is already doing well. Good thinking bioware.

Be happy that's all they're doing. Go look at Assassin notes - all their fun hybrid specs just got neutered with dull gardening shears.

Unless there is something they aren't telling us, it's a nerf.

Time to reroll, or just quit ... Only tree i find woth useing was anhi .... Going to Roll a sorc just like All others ,

Marauders no cc no really any cool tricks . Only damge , now they take that away A's Well ,

Marauders small dots wooht assins criting for 6k and CC and knockback and range and brust

And pull and vanish and steath where is Youre cool tricks bloodthist. Per 5 mins lool

Runing speed lol Treade All my cooldowns for steath and a vanish ,

When are they going to nerf steath Down to 2 sec? its not like we we are good to stand take hits ...

The old system: (you can see a small test sample and a continuation of this discussion here)

The current system tooltips do not match up with actual in game math. The currrent system is doing the following:

Bleedout is currently giving us 30% damage to all bleed effects, not crit chance.

Deep Wound is unconfirmed. Without watching and counting 1000 ticks (or combat log) we can only assume it is affecting Rupture's direct damage correctly.

Hemorrhage is adding 4% instead of 6% additional damage to bleed damage. The first point provides ~2% increase, each additional point is ~1%.

 

New system proposed:

Hemorrhage: 15% bleed damage increase

Bleedout: 30% critical multiplier increase

 

Using a the following stats as an example:

131 unmodified unskilled Rupture/Deadly Saber dot

25% crit chance

70% crit multiplier

 

Old System

In the old system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177 normal dot

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 * 1.7 = 301 critical dot

 

To explain those numbers we have the 131 base dot (no skills). We multiply that number times 1.3 for the 30% increase we WERE receiving from Bleedout. We then multiply times 1.04 for the 4% increase we WERE receiving from Hemorrhage. In the 2nd row, we multiply 1.7 for the critical multiplier.

 

Let's normalize that across 1000 dots. With at 25% crit chance that is 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.

177 * 750 = 132,750 normal dot damage

301 * 250 = 75,250 critical damage

Grand total = 208,000

 

New System

In the new system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:

131 * 1.15 = 150.65 normal dot

131 * 1.15 * 2 = 301 critical dot

 

131 is still our base unskilled dot. The 1.15 is the new Hemorrhage (3 points at 5% for each point = 15%). The 1.3 is the "corrected" Bleedout critical multiplier number. We are multiplying times 2 because 70% is the base critical multiplier and Bleedout provides an additional 30% critical multiplier. We would assume it is additive. If that is incorrect, the critical dot is 332 (and the final number still show new system a dps loss).

 

So lets normalize the new system across 1000 dots. Same as above, 25% base crit chance gives us 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.

151 * 750 = 114,000

301 * 250 = 75,250

Grand total = 189,250

 

What about Juyo form and Juyo Mastery? The new system does value critical chance more than the old system, but you would still need over 98% crit chance for the new system to overtake the old system.

 

TL;DR

The old system and new system critical dot amounts are exactly the same. All that has changed is non-crit dots will be less than the old system's non-crit dots.

 

Unless there is something we are missing, this is a damage decrease.

your math is bad BTW...

you math is bad BTW...

Please correct my math.

all those maths are wrong, first you need to use a 40% crit chance on dots (if you state your base 25%) and then you applied the damage boost of Bleedout & Hemorrhage on each other which is just speculation, they probably both boost the base dmg.

With correct math(it takes 5 min to do really) you actually get a slight dmg boost and obviously the gap increases as you get more surge.

Please correct my math.

He cant he is one Big troll. That never comes with facts ...

all those maths are wrong, first you need to use a 40% crit chance on dots (if you state your base 25%) and then you applied the damage boost of Bleedout & Hemorrhage on each other which is just speculation, they probably both boost the base dmg.

 

 

With correct math(it takes 5 min to do really) you actually get a slight dmg boost and obviously the gap increases as you get more surge.

That is MUCH easier than trying to describe it like: (1.15 * (1 + Crit*(Mult+.3))) / (1.3 * 1.04 * (1 + Crit*Mult)) (Kor's math)

Please take 5 minutes to do the math correctly and show that you are coming up with a different conclusion. If you increase critical multiplier you actually get more damage in the old system. At 90% critical multiplier you are getting ~1.2% higher damage in the old system.

That is MUCH easier than trying to describe it like: (1.15 * (1 + Crit*(Mult+.3))) / (1.3 * 1.04 * (1 + Crit*Mult)) (Kor's math)

 

Please take 5 minutes to do the math correctly and show that you are coming up with a different conclusion. If you increase critical multiplier you actually get more damage in the old system. At 90% critical multiplier you are getting ~1.2% higher damage in the old system.

if you do your "bad" math with REAL stats you will see it is a damage increase.

the reality is we lose the 30% to all damage on dots right now, however we gain 11% to all damage (because of talent fixes) that is a 19% lost to BASE dot damage, but yet a 30% increase to all crits. If you have even half decent gear you rock a near 50% change to crit on dots, it is a damage increase by 5ish% on dot damage.

Do the math correctly and you see an increase do troll math like yours and you make a loss seem like its there when in reality is it not.

Use real values for crit and surge, like 46% crit and 118% surge (on dots) like i have (in raids) and you see a decent jump in damage.

The devs of this game are infinitely smarter then you, they know what they are doing.

That is MUCH easier than trying to describe it like: (1.15 * (1 + Crit*(Mult+.3))) / (1.3 * 1.04 * (1 + Crit*Mult)) (Kor's math)

 

Please take 5 minutes to do the math correctly and show that you are coming up with a different conclusion. If you increase critical multiplier you actually get more damage in the old system. At 90% critical multiplier you are getting ~1.2% higher damage in the old system.

aye ok i just did it, if we consider a base dmg for the dot of 131 , 40% crit chance and 70% crit dmg on 10 dots we get 2247 before the nerf and 2109 after (we loose 138)

The thing is, the more your increase the base dot dmg the bigger the gap

with a base dot of 200 you get 3428 before and 3220 after (we loose 200 dmg)

the first time i did it in my head with a dot which would deal 100dmg i guess that's why i found out it was a slight buff; but it's a nerf indeed.

if you do your "bad" math with REAL stats you will see it is a damage increase.

 

 

the reality is we lose the 30% to all damage on dots right now, however we gain 11% to all damage (because of talent fixes) that is a 19% lost to BASE dot damage, but yet a 30% increase to all crits. If you have even half decent gear you rock a near 50% change to crit on dots, it is a damage increase by 5ish% on dot damage.

 

 

Do the math correctly and you see an increase do troll math like yours and you make a loss seem like its there when in reality is it not.

 

Use real values for crit and surge, like 46% crit and 118% surge (on dots) like i have (in raids) and you see a decent jump in damage.

 

The devs of this game are infinitely smarter then you, they know what they are doing.

You only gain 30% crit to dot damage, not all damage. You don't gain 11% to all damage (where did you come up with this from??).

Adjust the crit chance and crit multiplier and you will see you will still not get more damage from the new system. The post shows simplification of the problem. Let's use your numbers and re-run them.

131 base damage

46% crit chance

118% crit multiplier

Old system:

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177 normal dot

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 * 2.18 = 386 critical dot

New system:

131 * 1.15 = 151 normal dot

131 * 1.15 * 2.48 = 373.6 critical dot

What you are trying to prove is the exact opposite. The more critical multiplier you have actually benefits the old system better. You will do less damage in 1.1.2.

aye ok i just did it, if we consider a base dmg for the dot of 131 , 40% crit chance and 70% crit dmg on 10 dots we get 2247 before the nerf and 2109 after (we loose 138)

 

The thing is, the more your increase the base dot dmg the bigger the gap

 

with a base dot of 200 you get 3428 before and 3220 after (we loose 200 dmg)

 

the first time i did it my head with a dot which would deal 100dmg i guess that's why i found out it was a slight buff; but it's a nerf indeed.

Yessir exactly, the better your gear the greater the loss you will experience in 1.1.2.

 

The devs of this game are infinitely smarter then you, they know what they are doing.

Gotta love this. If this were always true then there wouldn't be anything to fix lolz.