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Who else wants to see HS and RR spamming stop?


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Since 6.0 launched, it has become very popular to spam Hammer Station and Red Reaper to essentially accelerate the raising of the iRating to get better gear. Small problem; not everyone wants to play these same flashpoints over and over again, yet as long as these spammers use Group Finder, there will always be times when that is the case. It has gotten so bad that I just flat out leave a group whenever these two show up. It shouldn't be this way. Other players I have spoken to about this issue feel, as I do, that this behaviour is toxic and needs to be stamped out, yet the devs are content to let it continue. I am starting this thread so that others can talk about their experiences with dealing with players that do this. It's a place to vent, really.
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I would say leaving the fp after it pops is the toxic behaviour.

 

If you don't want to play those 2 flashpoints then use the filter so they don't pop for you.

 

Just as players have the right to filter for any one flashpoint they want, you have the right to filter out a flashpoint you don't want to play.

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The solution could be somewhat simplistic, but it's readily implementable: nerf the loot drops of these two FPs specifically at max level.

 

P.S.: Although I acknowledge that sort of players the OP describes have existed even before 6.0, I wonder whether it's more common now.

 

P.P.S.: I know I have seen some players that could seemingly run HS/RR in less than 10 minutes but struggle to, or worse still, outright can't, run anything else; how common are these players nowadays?

Edited by Townowi
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I would say leaving the fp after it pops is the toxic behaviour.

 

If you don't want to play those 2 flashpoints then use the filter so they don't pop for you.

 

Just as players have the right to filter for any one flashpoint they want, you have the right to filter out a flashpoint you don't want to play.

 

Exactly. Just don't queue for all FPs if some of them bothers you.

People have the right to gear up whatever way they want. And spamming easy FPs is not the fastest one, but one of the easiest.

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I know I have seen some players that could seemingly run HS/RR in less than 10 minutes but struggle to, or worse still, outright can't, run anything else; how common are these players nowadays?

 

To answer your question. Very common. Especially in tactical mode Hammer Station.

 

Daily rewards are a thing. I'd like to not be required to go assemble 3 other people who all also want to run a random flashpoint in order to not get hammer or red reaper.

Now admittedly, I haven't gotten very many Hammer/RR pops of late, but I've also begun playing mm fps a hell of a lot less overall since onslaught launch. This is primarily because I've been running Hammer for... how long has this game been out now? Since Hammer came out on the PTS.

 

I do not find farming the same FP over and over and over again to be 'engaging gameplay' and I haven't run any tactical fps for months as I both don't enjoy tacticals and also don't enjoy Hammer runs.

 

Honestly, give those two the uprising treatment. Only loot that drops is from the final boss. Hell, nerf loot drops across the board for flashpoints and halve the drops from the first two bosses for all MM fps to make it a little more interesting. SM raids still exist as a lootapoolooza if you want them.

 

Better yet, give increased credit drops from MMfps (except hammer/rr) scaling with the 'difficulty' of the flashpoint. Nice juicy rewards in Copero, Nathema, LI, & Umbara to incentivize play to those fps.

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It has gotten so bad that I just flat out leave a group whenever these two show up. It shouldn't be this way. Other players I have spoken to about this issue feel, as I do, that this behaviour is toxic and needs to be stamped out, yet the devs are content to let it continue.

It's the quitting the group that is the "toxic behavior" that people complain about. The people who "spam" HS and RR are probably taking the time to deselect other FPs so they won't come up, while you, on the other hand, are just accepting a "random" FP and then complaining that it's not the one you want.

If you don't want to do HS or RR, deselect them from the list before you join GF. If, however, you insist you want the bonus, man up and except the FP that comes up.

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Inclined to agree with the OP. Heartily sick of those places and will happily nope out on any character that gets slotted into one, especially if it''s on my healer and I find one of those godawful tanks in DPS gear that seem to proliferate right now.

 

They'll always claim that "it's fine, we finished", but without acknowledging the fact that they just made the healer work 3 or 4 times as hard as a properly geared tank would and killed the fun. Suffered through Operation Meridian with just such a skank tank, couldn't kill the final boss because so help me we had a sentinel and scoundrel who would run away from the boss when the damage they were taking became too much to handle with all my attention focused on the "tank".

 

Some people are putting their own convenience over other people's enjoyment of the game. It's the same selfishness encapsulated in the idea that they have a "right" to play how they want. Normal standards of consideration and behaviour don't get left at the door when you cough up a subscription. Your money does not buy my acquiescence in your crapulence.

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The fact that you felt the need to make a post that addresses the symptom of a problem is an indictment on your point of view.

 

Bioware cannot stop people from spamming Hammer Station and Red Reaper ( unless they removed them from the queue altogether).

 

Your post is lacking in substance as it fails to address the real issue-- other Fps have a lower ROTI (return on time invested) than the two you mentioned.

 

The fact remains that a LOT of players are still bad--- HS and RR can be solo-ed and TTC is very short. If someone drops queue, you can just blaze through the FP with your company. If you get two level 20s woh don't know to LOS, no problem you can power through the hard pulls with careful use of DCs and massive AOE.

 

if I am grinding out Conguest on my alts I do NOT have the time to do Nathema conspiracy, which always results in a wipe, at some point, and waste my precious time.

 

I won;t even talk about master Mode cause if you get Nathema Conspiracy, Blood Hunt, Crisis on Umbara, Objective Meridain, Lost Island, Depths of Manaan, to name a few, you can just drop queue cause it's gonna probably be wipe, wipe, wipe, someone quits, re-queue, no pop, all quit.

 

Time is a commodity, my friend, and some of us value it.

 

The solution to YOUR problem is to filter out HH and RR out of your queue log. yes, those people who queue HH/RR are also missing out on the daily rewards but the trade-off is better than ending up with a FP where everyone quits b4 it finishes or it takes you 45 mins for basically the similar rewards for a 10 min HH run.

Edited by Yezzan
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I don't mind these two as I know even if the rest of the group is terrible, it is almost guaranteed the FP will be successful, not to mention the run will be over quickly.

 

IMO the issue is the lack of balancing and polish.

 

FPs sharing a queue should be of similar difficulty, with similar rewards for similar time and effort.

 

Get HS, I know it will be over successfully in ten minutes with minimal fuss, even if the rest of the group is bad.

 

Get Foundry, I know it may take a good bit longer, even more if one person decides not to skip cut scenes, more if someone pulls 'bosses' that can be skipped (and which do not drop loot), more if HK bugs, etc.

 

Get the newer ones, I know it will take a good bit longer and again, even longer if the rest of the group is bad, to the point that absent kicking the bads (which may be impossible if they are the majority), the group may not succeed.

 

In all cases, I get the same reward and the same number of random drops - so why wouldn't I want to see HS pop (even though I'm sick of it) as I know it will be over fast and has no risk of failure.

 

Personally, I'd like to see them do a tuning pass (there are some that need adjustments downward, while some could use adjustment upwards), and a time / rewards pass to bring rewards in line with time / effort required (longer instances should drop more rewards - be that number per boss, boxes at the end, or add loot to all the bosses currently missing loot).

 

They could also just put the daily reward / conquest credit as 'complete an FP using GF' without the requirement to queue all, then everyone could opt in and opt out of whatever they like (and if no one want to run 'insert that one FP you really like that no one else likes', well too bad).

 

Otherwise, I'll keep queuing all and keep dropping groups if I get something that is clearly going to take a lot longer than average or have a higher chance of failure (I may make that decision just on seeing the FP and group, or I may play through a few trash packs with the group).

 

Call my behavior toxic all you want - this is a developer created problem and I feel no obligation to waste my time because they cannot be bothered to balance difficulty, time and rewards.

Edited by DawnAskham
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Since 6.0 launched, it has become very popular to spam Hammer Station and Red Reaper to essentially accelerate the raising of the iRating to get better gear. Small problem; not everyone wants to play these same flashpoints over and over again, yet as long as these spammers use Group Finder, there will always be times when that is the case. It has gotten so bad that I just flat out leave a group whenever these two show up. It shouldn't be this way. Other players I have spoken to about this issue feel, as I do, that this behaviour is toxic and needs to be stamped out, yet the devs are content to let it continue. I am starting this thread so that others can talk about their experiences with dealing with players that do this. It's a place to vent, really.

 

If I have to pug MM FP, and HS pops, I will also drop the group immediately, swap toon and queue again. If only the people who want to farm those two FPs would know how to play, then sure, I'd probably go for it. But you can see who can, and who can not on the trash before the first boss. I'm not completely against HS and RR, I've even done it a few times with guildies to get them the bonus boss cheevo. The difference is, those guys know what they are doing. Average HS monkeys are both clueless and toxic, and I have no reason to waste my time with jerks like them.

 

 

Clueless = they don't know the kill order on second boss, instead they insist corner pulling them, and having everyone eat the flamethrower while hitting the shielded guy. If someone dies, it's "healer's fault"...

 

Toxic = when you tell them why there is no point corner pulling them in MM, or who to kill first, they will get verbally abusive. They don't even want to learn or get better. They just want to force people to play their way.

 

 

What I usually do when there's not enough guildies to go with, I form a group on fleet, so that I'll know for sure it's gonna be random. Or if we can form a group of 2-3 players, we ask someone to queue with us, the queue filler drops after the pop, and then we just finish it with companions. If someone has a second account, that can also be used to fill the group for GF.

 

But yes, HS and RR farmers are a cancer, and they have ruined GF and pugging from me, and several other people I've talked with.

 

Best solution indeed would be to let people tick off the flashpoints they don't want to do without losing the GF rewards, or make two separate queues: one for players who want to do random FPs, and another one for people want to handpick the easiest ones. Everyone would be happy. I wouldn't mind a legacy wide "ignore account" function either, because then I could weed out the HS farmers one by one for all my toons with just one click.

Edited by DeannaVoyager
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Call my behavior toxic all you want - this is a developer created problem and I feel no obligation to waste my time because they cannot be bothered to balance difficulty, time and rewards.

Why don't you post your character name(s) and server so we can all add you to our Ignore list to avoid wasting our time. 🙄

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If I have to pug MM FP, and HS pops, I will also drop the group immediately, swap toon and queue again. If only the people who want to farm those two FPs would know how to play, then sure, I'd probably go for it. But you can see who can, and who can not on the trash before the first boss. I'm not completely against HS and RR, I've even done it a few times with guildies to get them the bonus boss cheevo. The difference is, those guys know what they are doing. Average HS monkeys are both clueless and toxic, and I have no reason to waste my time with jerks like them.

 

 

Clueless = they don't know the kill order on second boss, instead they insist corner pulling them, and having everyone eat the flamethrower while hitting the shielded guy. If someone dies, it's "healer's fault"...

 

Toxic = when you tell them why there is no point corner pulling them in MM, or who to kill first, they will get verbally abusive. They don't even want to learn or get better. They just want to force people to play their way.

 

 

What I usually do when there's not enough guildies to go with, I form a group on fleet, so that I'll know for sure it's gonna be random. Or if we can form a group of 2-3 players, we ask someone to queue with us, the queue filler drops after the pop, and then we just finish it with companions. If someone has a second account, that can also be used to fill the group for GF.

 

But yes, HS and RR farmers are a cancer, and they have ruined GF and pugging from me, and several other people I've talked with.

 

Best solution indeed would be to let people tick off the flashpoints they don't want to do without losing the GF rewards, or make two separate queues: one for players who want to do random FPs, and another one for people want to handpick the easiest ones. Everyone would be happy. I wouldn't mind a legacy wide "ignore account" function either, because then I could weed out the HS farmers one by one for all my toons with just one click.

 

There are a lot of folks like this in game. I would like to gently remind everyone that we all are here to enjoy the game. I returned after being away from the game for 3.5 years. I am one of those 'spammers' and the reason is to gear up as fast as possible.

 

I used to do Hardmode (master mode now?) weeklies and bear with it. But now the new bar to succeed is 306. While I get and understand that a good player can succeed in crap gear if they just now how to play. However, I am still relearning what I forgot. I do not consider myself a poor player. I am a returning one that remembers wiping repeatedly on Maanan and on Blood hunt, oh man do I!

Before I start cueing up for Mastermode, I really want to be in the best gear I can so that when i forget stuff and make mistakes > sheer dumb arse dps can sometimes make up for it.

I spam HS as it is the simplest way to get gear. I cue up with my (also returning friend) who is a tank and I run heals. Fast, fast fast.

 

I am more than happy to learn Master mode content but both of us are in an inactive guild and have not been able to talk to anyone to teach us.

 

Anyway, I just wanted you to know there are other players who are there to have fun, gear up and (at least for me and my friend) not be a detriment to your enjoyment of the game.

Edited by Larsenex
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Fun thing is ...those 2 aren't best :D

Best (for stealther) is Cademimu. I started by shadow tank with 258, made 306 in 3 days alone.

Also ...tech fragments are split for party. So if u solo then u have 4x more fragments at the end.

Later did that one by sent alone too, just to try. Took 38 mins by sent.

 

So well, if you dont like HS- just turn it off. I usually have LI / Kaon only when I want GF.

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I am more than happy to learn Master mode content but both of us are in an inactive guild and have not been able to talk to anyone to teach us.

The main difference between VM flashpoints and MM flashpoints is the lack of koltos, so you have to rely on the group's healer and your own defense skills.

The difficulty level is basically the same, except sometimes there are additional mechanics to some boss fights. For example, in the final boss fight of Cadimemu the "shackles" are used in MM, whereas they're not in VM. If not sure, just ask.

 

The main thing to worry about in MM is remembering that there are no koltos. Also, wait for the tank to attack first. 🙂

(I queued for both VM and MM flashpoints through GF the other day. Hammer Station popped and I proceeded, as a DPS Guardian, to attack the first couple of groups, even before 1 of the players has zoned in, and then I had to apologize in chat that I hadn't notice it was MM 🙄 😏 )

 

Actually, for a long time after they implemented VM and MM, I only did VM because I was worried about trying MM (even though I had done "hard mode" in the past). It turns out that, if you can do VM comfortably, you should have no problem with MM.

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I definitely think more rewards should be added to the FP's that take longer to finish. That or just make a bossdrop cd of 10-15 min. plus bonus boss always drop decoration, final boss always loot. That way HS would only have 2 lootdrops for most groups and a FP like maelstrom would have 3, maybe even 4 if it's a slow group plus a decoration if you opted for bonus boss.

 

Also i think all bosses should at least drop something, even if it's just a bag of trade goods.

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...well, yday I tried 1st ever time uprisings ... of coz i started from master :D

Well, I was able to do 1 of whole list only alone.

 

Those are NOT scaled - so you have all ur 75 stats and gear. And 3x more enemies then FPs. And ... some BAD loot at the end. This thing should be fixed.

Overall, if somebody look for a challenge - go try uprising master.

 

Also as mobs are 75 you can gather there mats ...like old days - droids, monsters etc.

Edited by alexzk
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Anyway, I just wanted you to know there are other players who are there to have fun, gear up and (at least for me and my friend) not be a detriment to your enjoyment of the game.

 

That's the thing: you want to have fun, but so do I, and I personally don't consider spamming HS and nothing but HS fun. I understand that you are not comfortable going random MM if you haven't played lately, but by the time HS farmers will want to go for something else, GF will be dead, or full of people who are clueless about some key mechanics. People who are sick of HS are forming their own groups outside GF, and there won't be many left who can teach the fights to new people.

 

Considering you only pick HS and the likes of it from the list, how about make a group of 2-3 people on the fleet, and go with a high level companion healer. You don't have to use GF to do HS, if you are not interested in GF rewards, and you wouldn't be forcing random queuers to join your handpicked HS.

 

Today I was farming renown ranks with 2 mates and a pug. We got Nathema MM. One dps was lvl 72, but the rest of the group was 75. Granted, I had to swap to proper tank gear before last boss instead of skanking it, but we one shot everything, and nobody died. We also did Bloodhunt, with the same lvl 72 dps, could have been 73 by then, and one shot everything without deaths.

 

So MM FPs are not as difficult as you might think. Everything dies if people follow mechanics and know how to play. If there is someone in the group that I don't know, I always ask if they know what to do, and always explain the fight if needed. If they are willing to listen and pay attention to what is happening around them, even unexperienced players can do harder stuff. Heck, we even managed to kill Copero bonus boss on second try with a healer who had never done it before. He had never gotten past second boss with other groups. Yesterday we also got Battle of Rishi, and went for Mokan because three of us knew the fight. Healer (again) had never done it, but we killed it on 3rd try, because he was listening to the instructions, and followed them. He even asked extra questions after we killed it, because he wanted to understand everything. Then again, I've tried the same bonus bosses with more experienced players and ran out of patience after wiping over and over again to the same thing.

 

 

If you decide to go for something else than HS, and don't know the fights, people are usually happy to help as long as you tell them in advance, or ask for advice. They also have a lot more patience for mistakes, if they know you are not familiar with the fight. So go for it, try something else for a change. You might enjoy it :)

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I think the most common reason to end up with HS, Athiss, Cademimu and KDY is that lowbies got only these 4 flashpoints in activity finder by the level of 30 (not sure, when you got Taral/Boarding party).

So, this is your chances when you group with sub-30.

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I think the most common reason to end up with HS, Athiss, Cademimu and KDY is that lowbies got only these 4 flashpoints in activity finder by the level of 30 (not sure, when you got Taral/Boarding party).

So, this is your chances when you group with sub-30.

 

I don't mind lowbies on veteran mode flashpoints, I can even run HS then because people are not as toxic as they are in MM HS. If I'm not in a mood for carrying a bunch of lowbies, I just don't accept the pop when I see the levels of the rest of the group. I usually just queue for MM though, unless I'm playing a class I'm not that familiar with.

 

People are having this issue (HS, Athiss, RR) on master mode queue, because people who are incapable of doing anything else, force people who could, to join their brainless farming run instead of just walking in by themselves and with companions.

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Eternal whinging that low level FPs pop despite basic logic that if any low levels are in the Q it cannot be anything other than a low level FP so even with everyone queueing all FP it will still mostly pop low levels.

 

Yet when the level 50+ FP pop there's a really good chance people ditch them on sight.

 

:rolleyes:

 

When I see a pop I don't wanna hear a single excuse or group dodge. You're there because you got in the queue for it so don't be a little *****.

 

*But I want rewaaaaaaards for being in the Q for all FP while only doing FP pops I like*

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Edited by Gyronamics
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Oh man, if I could get full rewards for just queuing for Nathema, Copero, LI, Rishi and D7... hoooboy I'd be one happy operative.

 

As it stands, I'll just keep queuing for the ones I want and ditch the rewards. My inventory is full enough anyways.

Edited by Iymurra
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To be honest, these guys r doing it wrong. The best way to gear up in a not mind-numbing manner is full random MM fps. Best role is tank, sometimes healer for the insta pop.

 

The issue is that all those ppl r typically just dps so they r doing next to nothing to help pops, just clogging the system.

 

Im not even sure y RR is a thing in GF? it is stealther only there if u want decent completion time.

 

And btw, the corner pulling on HS 2nd boss is very effective. Almost all specs do passive aoe, it helps to accelerate the fight. Flamethrower should not be an issue, since u can aim it away from the group when they r stacked up.

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And btw, the corner pulling on HS 2nd boss is very effective. Almost all specs do passive aoe, it helps to accelerate the fight. Flamethrower should not be an issue, since u can aim it away from the group when they r stacked up.

 

"Can" and actually turning it are two totally different things. Flamethrower can also be interrupted, but I guess a lot of HS monkeys have never heard of such thing. Also passive aoe is pretty insignificant when dps keeps hitting the shielded guy with their biggest single target hits. Better to keep them where everyone can see them properly. I'm sure corner pull is a viable tactic in veteran mode, because none of them are shielded, just not the best way to go in MM.

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