I'm not so much concerned about the Answers, lowest DPS or not with 4 viable Specs they've got the broadest toolbox to pick from so whatever the Bosses throw at them they can deal with it, what i dislike is you Policy towards unintended but fun and/or well working things just because they were unintended.

 

make roll in place "official" by simplifying it so that when you use it while you are in the Air (by jumping) you stay were you are and just Drop the Bombs, I don't know "clunky" i'd call it Different and leave it at that, every Person is different I know enough slingers that like Sabo and they have enough options if they don't like it.

 

change the Damage individual Scatterbombs do to the max the Ability was supposed to Deal to a single Foe (probably 2 scatterbombs) but limit the number of hits to one (or if you prefer more smaller hits, like i do, to make live less miserable on PVP Tanks, two separate hits) then adjust whatever single target Abilities you like or, if the AOE isn't to crazy for your taste, Plasma Probe.

 

no major changes necessary better spend your time on classes that have only one viable DPS spec or concentrate purely on PVP.

PVE Snipers are close enough and offer enough, much more then offsetting the Relic nerf would make them once more the completely unrivaled Range DPS class.

I like how a thread titled "Sniper // Gunslinger Top 3 Answers" morphed into "X reason is why Snipers are better than Y class for Z fight" (here is a hint, every class can do every fight) or even how to heal the NiM Raptus healing challenge?

 

TBH, they can only answer the questions we give them, and these are pretty disappointing. Could have rolled #3 into #1 and addressed the perceived lack of DPS with the known lack of AoE and broken Engi/Sab as a whole instead of getting an answer that is more relevant to every other class but Snipers, and one that has already been given.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

 

A list of what I would be behind for a "Utility/DPS trade" that everyone seems to be behind.

 

• 30% AoE DR in cover instead of 60% in Entrench.
  

 

That's it. Remove anything else (Diversion, Leg Shot, Ballistic Dampers) and you make the class literal sitting ducks in PVP.

 

The only thing wrong with the class in the current patch is Engi, which has been beaten to death, and set bonuses. Two energy management bonuses for PVE (one of which doesn't apply to 2(3) specs until 30%) and a utility upgrade (we need more amirite?) and an extra tick on one of the weakest AoE's in the game.

 

Give me +15%Crit or +8%Dmg to SoS for PVE instead of Takedown energy cost (and lower the natural cost) and I'll be a happy camper. I have no idea what to do with PVP bonuses cause I don't PVP on a Sniper.

The only thing wrong with the class in the current patch is Engi, which has been beaten to death, and set bonuses. Two energy management bonuses for PVE (one of which doesn't apply to 2(3) specs until 30%) and a utility upgrade (we need more amirite?) and an extra tick on one of the weakest AoE's in the game.

 

Give me +15%Crit or +8%Dmg to SoS for PVE instead of Takedown energy cost (and lower the natural cost) and I'll be a happy camper. I have no idea what to do with PVP bonuses cause I don't PVP on a Sniper.

 

This is a great suggestion. In fact, boosting the damage output of Speedshot / SoS in general by 10% and then offering extra damage via 4 set bonus is possibly the easiest and most efficient way to get slingers parsing well again (in ALL specs).

lets keep a few things in mind the 60% damage reduction from aoe on entrench is 27 points into the marksman tree only. Diversion is 11 points in the mm tree. heavy shot, ballistic dampeners, reduced cooldown on legshot, seek cover are all in MM.

 

The aoe damage reduction when entrenched was added so snipers would not feel required to abandon entrench when aoe is placed on top of them. with the change to entrench allowing you to move you could argue that it isnt needed anymore (as much as i enjoy it).

 

My biggest concern is the dev have altered the design philosophy of snipers from a pure ranged dps class to a utility class. Theoretically MM should be in line with carnage and lethality with annihilation and engineering with rage. With the utility aspect now in place snipers are not a dps class.

 

I would love for a new class to be a pure utility class (bard type) but sniper isnt the way to go. At the very least alter the talents so 1 spec can be high dps no/little utility.

 

The other question is how do you calculate utility? The value is dependent on the operation.

Glass cannon is a faulty premise for pvp to begin with. In battle, the most heavily armored assets are the cannons or turrets (tanks and bunkers) or they are placed beyond the reach of infantry (long range artillery). The less mobility, the more armor and vice versus. The glass cannon concept is completely backwards and has never worked and never will work in pvp.

By nerfing flash bang and OS, Bioware made snipers even more vulnerable to being focused and easily wiped off the map.

Bioware has already had a full year or more of evidence that snipers were extremely vulnerable in pvp and especially arena, where it's easy to focus a single player. I don't understand why we need another year to confirm it.

 

Of course players will complain to the high heavens if they see another class getting a significant boost to their survivability, especially if their own class is being adjusted not to their liking. Bioware needs to act more decisively on the data they have at hand. One look at the leaderboards can confirm the dire predicament of snipers/slingers in pvp.

 

Juggs/Guards have the (OP) ED, PTs/Vangs have Kolto. Sorcs and Sages have their immunity bubble and self heals, Ops have their roll and self heals and can stealth, Sins/Shadows have their Battle Readiness, stealth, mercs electro net, etc. It's pretty obvious snipers/slingers needs some variation to be on par with other classes in pvp.

 

I would suggest some form of ED -Kolto where dmg is reduced and lost health is rapidly replaced so that when they are focused they have an opportunity for survival as do other classes. The alternative is to extend their immunity to 10 seconds similar to what sages/sorcs have.

 

You also need to make "Spotter" 360 degrees. What sense does having an ability that only detects stealth in front of you when stealth's openers are all from behind? Of course stealth will avoid it and approach from behind, not to mention they can easily negate "Spotter" for 15 seconds with the click of a button. In fact, snipers are a favorite target of stealth as they have little defense compared to other classes to offset the huge burst the stealth classes have. It's a farce.

Edited July 13, 2014 by MotorCityMan

Specifically, what would the community like to see done that increases the Gunslinger’s/Sniper’s survivability in PvP without increasing their survivability in PvE?

 

You're really limiting your options there. Barring a pvp/pve split of abilities (such as with smash), you will need to find a non-numbers related way to avoid damage.

 

One option is CC, though I'd be against that for several reasons (there being enough CC in the game in general, among others).

 

Another is to add something that diverts focus. I mean that literally (not in a "focusing this guy at the moment is pointless cause he will take little to no damage" sort of way), anything else would directly buff pve survivability. For instance a camo-like mechanic minus the damage reduction. In my opinion that wouldn't be the best way to go either (this type of mechanic's effectiveness would vary too much depending on enemy comp when used in a ranged class), but being unable to suggest something even slightly numbers related - which is essentially what not increasing pve survivability means - any potential buffs are kind of pigeon holed into being something like it.

 

edit: removed snarkiness that was pointless as far as making this post constructive goes.

Edited July 13, 2014 by diadox

You're really limiting your options there. Barring a pvp/pve split of abilities (such as with smash), you will need to find a non-numbers related way to avoid damage.

 

One option is CC, though I'd be against that for several reasons (there being enough CC in the game in general, among others).

 

 

I agree 100% with your observation about limiting options by requiring a pvp solution that has no possible effect in pve. It's completely unrealistic.

Ironic you mention CC< but Bioware, in their infinite wisdom, just got done nerfing sniper Flashbang so it is no longer effects up to 5 targets and is now limited it to one.

 

--- snip snip snip---

 

2) PvP could be reworked with a couple of items. The core change would be to make a sniper going into cover grant low grade stealth. The sniper could not move with stealth. The sniper could not exit combat and enter stealth. The sniper would lose stealth when attacking or being attacked. The goal of the sniper is to achieve quick positioning and then quietly and patiently wait for their prey to ambush. This would achieve the feel and game play that reflects a sniper. It would help in PvP because it would be much more difficult to single out snipers initially and target as an easy kill. The second item would be allow the snipers shield probe to be popped when stunned. This would mitigate, but not eliminate the squishiness problem that frequently leaves a sniper helpless. Neither of these would have any meaningful PvE impact (may be allow snipers to patiently skip pats), but for the most part they would change the way a PvP sniper is intended to be played.

 

 

^^^This.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Beansoup

There are only two pure-dps classes in game, and compared to marauders snipers lose at everything in pve: both dps and utility. I agree, Diversion / Trauma / Ballistic is very helpful, but not every fight.

Survivability in PvE is ok: probe/evasion/shield/entrench/roll is pretty much all you need. In PvP that is not enough.

 

Suggestions:

• Increase SoS and Cull bonus damage from talents Steady Shots in MM and Razor Rounds in Lethality.
  
• Increase armor penetration in Between the Eyes talent in MM.
  
• Increase armor penetration in Precision Ambush talent in MM in order to make it useful in all skilltrees.
  
• Increase basic dot damage and give it boost in Lethality.
  
• Increase Corrosive Mine damage in Lethality.
  
• Make Scatter Bombs exploit official in some way OR increase all AoE-damage in Engineering + make Orbital Strike more useful in that tree.
  
• Increase damage from Electrified Railgun in Engineering.
  
• Decrease cooldown on Ballistic Shield.
  
• Decrease cooldown on Laze Target.
  

Edited July 15, 2014 by Hronych

There are only two pure-dps classes in game, and compared to marauders snipers lose at everything in pve: both dps and utility. I agree, Diversion / Trauma / Ballistic is very helpful, but not every fight.

Survivability in PvE is ok: probe/evasion/shield/entrench/roll is pretty much all you need. In PvP that is not enough.

 

Suggestions:

• Increase SoS and Cull bonus damage from talents Steady Shots in MM and Razor Rounds in Lethality.
  
• Increase armor penetration in Between the Eyes talent in MM.
  
• Increase armor penetration in Precision Ambush talent in MM in order to make it useful in all skilltrees.
  
• Increase basic dot damage and give it boost in Lethality.
  
• Increase Corrosive Mine damage in Lethality.
  
• Make Scatter Bombs exploit official in some way OR increase all AoE-damage in Engineering + make Orbital Strike more useful in that tree.
  
• Increase damage from Electrified Railgun in Engineering.
  
• Decrease cooldown on Ballistic Shield.
  
• Decrease cooldown on Laze Target.
  

 

I'd say for damage, just do the following:

 

SNIPER

Level 10 skill I forget the name of, also increases the duration on Corrosive Dart by 3 seconds

 

MARKSMANSHIP

 

BETWEEN THE EYES: Crit boost/Armor pen changed from 2%/5% per point to 3%/15% per point

IMPERIAL ASSASSIN: Ambush added to the list of abilities boosted

 

ENGINEERING (Yeah this spec needs lots of work, see below for it)

 

INTERROGATION PROBE: Target limit removed

CALCULATED PURSUIT: Also gives a 15/30% surge boost to Overload Shot

ELECTRIFIED BLAST: Takedown added to abilities that can proc it

SCATTER BOMBS: Damage reduced by 50%. However this talent also increases orbital damage by 30/60% now.

IMPERIAL AUTO-LOADER: Cooldown reduction of Explosive Probe doubled (to 3/6/9 seconds reduction from 1.5/3/4.5 seconds. Series of Shots remains unchanged)

 

LETHALITY

 

Sniper Version of Lethal Injectors reduced to 1 point of +3 seconds

Sniper Version of Corrosive Microbes increased to 2 points of +25% chance each

Devouring Microbes: Also gives +10/20/30% surge bonus as well. EDIT - To DOTS! Only to DOTS! didn't want to cause confusion here

Lethal Takedown: Now builds stacks on each hit of Cull. At 3 stacks, makes the next takedown free and usable on any health level.

 

So, how do these changes work?

 

Marksmanship - It improves the armor pen, and makes ambush hit harder when it crits, while also giving slightly more crit rating on Snipe/SoS/Followthrough. The combined upgrades should be relatively minor in comparison to some other ones (e.g. the Pyro DoT boost), but will still give a noticable buff to account for the lost damage from the double relic proc.

 

Lethality - Corrosive Dart will be double ticking a lot more often, and a surge bonus is now on all DoT attacks, giving a big boost in DPS capabilities. That and the RNG from lethal takedown is gone.

 

Engineering - This was the hardest one to come up with stuff for. What I settled on:

 

Interrogation Probe target limit removed - The target limit makes no sense anyway, so why keep it?

Overload Shot getting a surge boost - Its not used much, but its the only spec in the game that uses it, so a surge boost can't really hurt. Plus with the inevitable nerf to scatter bombs, the extra DPS will help.

Electrified Railgun changes - Adding Takedown to the attacks that can activate it makes it slightly easier to maintain in the execute phase, which helps since you'll have less time for fillers.

Scatter Bombs - the inevitable nerf. The Orbital buff that comes with it though, is so Orbital can be strong in engineering like the Devs have stated it should be, making it still worthwhile to grab the talent. Also you're still doing ~8k damage by rolling, so its not a DPS loss...

Imperial Auto-loader change - Now every seconds SoS comes right after you probe them, making the rotation smoother and more efficient.

 

Now I did come up with these changes on the spot, and its possible that putting them in the game would screw it over so much its ridiculous, but hey.

Edited July 16, 2014 by TACeMossie

.....

 

If your changes come, i will play a new sniper lethality hybrid that will deal 5550 damage per second (most likely more with full 186 gear) in the second phase of the council fight.

 

Thank you.

Edited July 15, 2014 by THoK-Zeus

All i want is for scatter bombs to be dropped either AROUND me as i roll or to be added to Frag Grenade the same way cluster bombs are added to explosive probe

FFS. Stop drinking and actually do something for your salary. How long is your cantina driking tour going to last until you can actually work on something?

 

You been holding off to fix the class for ages and apparently it's still a: "Frankly my dear, I don't give a crap, maybe we do something or just monitor the metrics some more, while we buff the other classes Courtney plays up to par on DPS and heal to full with our NEW DESIGN . Then again I'd like a brewskie and tequila... let's do that first!". Do you even actually play the game anymore, other than on the feeds about building strongholds while drunk? Yeah, I thought so too.

 

It's mind boggling to see such incompetent people in a multi million business.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Beansoup

''It is possible that we might even decide to address the Scatter Bombs issue in a prior update, but would Saboteur/Engineering players want this skill toned down if they are not also receiving an overhaul to the rest of their skill tree with it? Let us know!''

 

Yes you absolutely need to. I am an experienced pvp'er i average at least 900 dps on every toon i play. I want to express my opinion on this matter. I stress that you MUST do something with Scatter Bomb!! I think it needs to be a passive instead, which makes Thermal Grenade keep its initial aoe dmg but also make enemies burn for X(X) seconds. This eliminates an extra button, which is where the overlapping mechanics hinder the gameplay experience (its currently clunky..).

''It is possible that we might even decide to address the Scatter Bombs issue in a prior update, but would Saboteur/Engineering players want this skill toned down if they are not also receiving an overhaul to the rest of their skill tree with it? Let us know!''

 

Yes you absolutely need to. I am an experienced pvp'er i average at least 900 dps on every toon i play. I want to express my opinion on this matter. I stress that you MUST do something with Scatter Bomb!! I think it needs to be a passive instead, which makes Thermal Grenade keep its initial aoe dmg but also make enemies burn for X(X) seconds. This eliminates an extra button, which is where the overlapping mechanics hinder the gameplay experience (its currently clunky..).

 

You might wanna wait till you're averaging 3600 dps on every toon before bragging about your skills...

''It is possible that we might even decide to address the Scatter Bombs issue in a prior update, but would Saboteur/Engineering players want this skill toned down if they are not also receiving an overhaul to the rest of their skill tree with it? Let us know!''

 

Yes you absolutely need to. I am an experienced pvp'er i average at least 900 dps on every toon i play. I want to express my opinion on this matter. I stress that you MUST do something with Scatter Bomb!! I think it needs to be a passive instead, which makes Thermal Grenade keep its initial aoe dmg but also make enemies burn for X(X) seconds. This eliminates an extra button, which is where the overlapping mechanics hinder the gameplay experience (its currently clunky..).

 

I think I did more dps at lvl 50 in lvl 50 blues.

You might wanna wait till you're averaging 3600 dps on every toon before bragging about your skills...

 

I think you should work on your reading comprehension before you post. He said PVP, as in player versus player.. not PVE.

I think you should work on your reading comprehension before you post. He said PVP, as in player versus player.. not PVE.

 

Correct. They are just ignorant haters. Everything they said was a waste of space. I wasn't even bragging i was just putting down a little credential.

Anyway, most pvp'ers do around 500-700. Good ones do around 900-1350. 1350 is almost always obtained from matches where enemies are bunched up, and you dot them and then aoe them. There ya have it.

 

Adovir I would hope you aren't shepherding anyone with those comprehension skills. Younglings need guidance not ignorant babble

Edited July 28, 2014 by Warlord_Maliken

Correct. They are just ignorant haters. Everything they said was a waste of space. I wasn't even bragging i was just putting down a little credential.

Anyway, most pvp'ers do around 500-700. Good ones do around 900-1350. 1350 is almost always obtained from matches where enemies are bunched up, and you dot them and then aoe them. There ya have it.

 

Adovir I would hope you aren't shepherding anyone with those comprehension skills. Younglings need guidance not ignorant babble

 

Yeah I missed the pvp line

 

/shame

Would allowing snipers stealth and cloaking screen be out of the question as for helping with pvp survivability or would this be out of the question? I mean by definition a sniper should be steathy anyway.

Don't beat me up ok. lol Just tossing in a suggestion.

Would allowing snipers stealth and cloaking screen be out of the question as for helping with pvp survivability or would this be out of the question? I mean by definition a sniper should be steathy anyway.

Don't beat me up ok. lol Just tossing in a suggestion.

 

They already have stealth detection when in cover. So no giving them stealth would make them insanely OP.

They already have stealth detection when in cover. So no giving them stealth would make them insanely OP.

 

That's true. I'd personally be willing to let detection go to have stealth and cloaking screen. I can always use suppressive fire in certain situations. Anyway, just an idea.

I really don't think stealth would make the sniper OP as long as it contained 2 very important distinctions between operatives/sins.

 

1) No movement in stealth - The sniper can pick his spot and wait, but they can't move in stealth.

2) No in combat stealth mechanic - Once a sniper is in combat, they are in combat.

 

It would make the cat and mouse game of finding a spot quickly and waiting for your prey patiently. You would need to know when to pull the trigger.

 

The other key about these differentiations is it then would make absolutely zero change to PvE play of snipers. It is only a PvP survival mechanic that lowers the amount of picking out the sniper and burying them before they get a chance to do anything.

 

I also think being able to pop shield probe while stunned is a must for Snipers.

As far as Addressing survivability for smugglers in PvP, why not add an obroan/brutalizer set bonus that builds a smuggler's defense the longer they last in a match, in other words, the longer you survive,the more likely you are to continue to survive.