Agree, grade 11 should be removed from War Supplies.

 

Current War Supplies use these:

A- Grades 2, 4, 6, 8 and 9

B- Grades 3, 5, 7, 8 and 9

 

IF they were to increase grade to match in 6.0, they could just take out grade 2 and add grade 10:

A- Grades 4, 6, 8, 9 and 10

B- Grades 3, 5, 7, 9 and 10

I like this suggestion. As both you and Citrienne have pointed out, it's probably better to take Grade 11 out entirely. (In fact, I like it so much that I'm going to edit one my earlier posts to include it in my list of must-dos, with credit to you.) As you point out, the highest/most recent grade has actually not previously been part of war supplies at all (e.g. Grade 10 not having been part of the schematic till now), so this is an odd change. No matter how you slice it, including Grade 11 in war supplies tips the cost in unbalanced ways, and it doesn't seem to be necessary. War supplies are not an end in and of themselves, they are just a step along the way to a different goal, so it doesn't make sense to screw up their balance.

And even though this post from Eric today wasn't actually in this thread it does speak to some announcements that might soon be made about crafting changes. Fully understanding that more might get announced than is in this teaser post (and not trying to lambast Eric for a teaser post not being comprehensive, because I really appreciate having a teaser post at all), I nonetheless want to make sure to call out that it is troubling that adjusting the quantity of mats required to build the basic Grade 11 components (attachments/grafts/etc) was not mentioned. Hopefully this was just a harmless oversight.

If that issue of Grade 11 components requiring 5x as many mats as every single other component in the game isn't addressed, then the entire 6.0 crafting system will remain fundamentally broken. This can't be stressed enough. If this is left as is, the result is that you are placing the biggest hurdle to the whole crafting system AT ENTRY. Components are the very first step, and they are required in absolutely everything, and at exponentially increased numbers the deeper into the system you go. By making the first step cost prohibitive you are guaranteeing a snowball effect to everything that follows. Yes, conquest mats being required for green and blue rarity items of any type is absurd and also needs to be removed, but the base component issue is equally (if not more) crucial.

By making your base unit 5x harder to craft than components have ever historically been, you are making the entire system inaccessible to the majority of people who are not magically going to spontaneously manifest 5x more time and credits capital in order to do something that should be a low-key pastime (ie, crafting within a greater game). Increased challenge to crafting should only become relevant when you are reaching the highest quality items available; your base unit should not be harder to craft for any reason whatsoever. That's like saying that you are trying to increase the challenge of a sporting event by making it harder for people to reach the playing field.

Grade 11 components will by default already be more expensive to make because the mats are more expensive; that is totally fine and normal. But for pity's sake keep the quantity requirements in line with every other component in the game.

Agree, grade 11 should be removed from War Supplies.

 

Current War Supplies use these:

A- Grades 2, 4, 6, 8 and 9

B- Grades 3, 5, 7, 8 and 9

 

IF they were to increase grade to match in 6.0, they could just take out grade 2 and add grade 10:

A- Grades 4, 6, 8, 9 and 10

B- Grades 3, 5, 7, 9 and 10

Agree with this. Having a level 11 crafting mat in the mix will mean that anyone that does significant crafting for conquest now can just plain give up. There are no hard to obtain grade 10 mats in the current system so why jump to 11 in the new (especially if these are going to restricted to one planet or high priced and very long time missions). With the increase in points required for both personal and guild conquest goals, it is going to already be nearly impossible for most small guilds to reach those goals. Crafting was one of the things small guilds could do to get to a small planet yield. Just because it is severely abused by large guilds is no reason to shut out small ones. Just put a weekly limit on the number of points that can be gained from crafting. Or make objectives of Craft 10, 20, 30, etc and once you exceed that number you don't get more points for it (best place to set it would be about half the personal goal - that way no one can do just crafting to get to their goal but can make up the points on the weeks that are heavily group only content.

Erics Post from other thread

The team is still reviewing and planning changes around the crafting feedback. There are changes coming, don't worry. I will post about those once I have specific information to share. In the meantime here are a few of the base takeaways the team is looking at:

Ossus turned out not to be the best testing ground, we would want you to be able to harvest nodes faster than you did.

We want to increase the crafting materials earned from Flashpoint and Ops bosses.

This change is actually in the next PTS build.

Times for schematics and missions need to be reduced.

Jawa Junk prices aren't likely to change, but we want to increase gains of Jawa Junk.

Want to make adjustments to the Conquest Materials requirement or inflow.

Again, I will share specific changes when I have them.

-eric

Eric Musco | Community Manager

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Converting the cost of making a Green Asseemby Component to Jawa Junk i will need 4000 Green Jawa Junk per Assembly component. If as you say the Jawa prices are not going to change and the loot drop of Jawa Junk is going up. Can you please insure there is adequate storage for the Jawa Junk. Currently Stacks to 9999, so i can make two and a bit Components from a stack.

So its either going to be Jawa Junk prices are too high or I dont have enough storage to do anything worth while with Jawa Junk.

Converting the cost of making a Green Asseemby Component to Jawa Junk i will need 4000 Green Jawa Junk per Assembly component. If as you say the Jawa prices are not going to change and the loot drop of Jawa Junk is going up. Can you please insure there is adequate storage for the Jawa Junk. Currently Stacks to 9999, so i can make two and a bit Components from a stack.

So its either going to be Jawa Junk prices are too high or I dont have enough storage to do anything worth while with Jawa Junk.

i get that the jawa junk, like Kai Zykken is not supposed to be the primary source of getting crafting materials. but if you are getting pennies back, for items that cost so much to make in the first, its just not right. I was getting jawa junk back for deconstruction, as well as some, not all of the materials used to make the item, then it would be okay.

in addition, when it takes 10 weeks of personal conquest to get enough materials to craft a single green item by yourself, then the system is SEVERELY broken.

like someone above mentioned, i don't mind the longer gathering mission times, but the return has to be worth it. if its a failed mission that takes 28 minutes, and all you get is 4 purple, 7 blue, and 6 green jawa junk, its not worth it. thats the equivalent of getting a single drop in a FP and then deconstructing it. If you succeed at the mission, and only get 10 green mats, then it doesn't feel worth it.

Do you feel like the time investment for harvesting is worth it? (please check harvesting only on Ossus for Grade 11)

I harvested about twenty nodes and got 2x17 purple 2x30 blue and 2x50 green for the time I spent doing the dailies on ossus and going out of my way to find a node for biochem. Was it worth it Not At All. On Darvanis and Yavin you fall over a node every time you turn around. In one loop with my gatherer I can gather a hundred of each mat needed in an hour four to five hundred of each. I got the above mats, under two hundred combined, in an hour.

Do you feel the time and cost for crew skill missions are worth it?

An hour to send out on a mission with level 10 NOPE

As a crafter, do you feel like you have a place in Spoils of War?

No because I need ten of this to make ten of this to make ten of this to wait for a conquest reward of only at most 6 per week per toon. That means I have to do conquest. I have to run FP after FP to get the materiel just to get one green trash item made MK0 is a trash item. Play your Way not the way it is set up!

How do you feel about deconstruction and its contribution to crafting?

About the same no real meaningful impact. Jawa scrap is Jawa scrap and the prices for grade eleven is ridiculous.

Do you feel the inflow of Jawa Junk from deconstruction helps to supplement harvesting and missions? (reminder: Jawa junk is not meant to be a primary source of materials by itself).

NO because the prices are too high.

How do you feel about the new materials window?

Fine but if your comp is gather you have no idea what you just received if anything at all. System feedback no longer gives you a message of what you looted. I thought the nodes were broken. That you have to left shift click to move a full stack to your inventory redundant. It should act like a inventory tab not a vendor.

In all I am less likely to make anything after my crafting is at 700 other than I absolutely have to. When 228 came out I was making anything and everything I could to gear my toons. same as I learned the 240 and 246 schematics. Now I might make one or two pieces if I finally get the matts. But like the 258 gear I have made exactly one piece because on a whole it is too time consuming and not worth it the effort in the end.

Deconstructing

Deconstruction should include the Jawa scrap we are getting plus at least some of the rank 11 mats that would be used because even a green costs thousands of jawa scraps if you bought the mats through the jawa vendor. 2000 for ten green times 2 = 4000 you need eight for one mk0 piece that is 32000 jawa scrap plus the cost of the vendor mats you need not including the isotopes and the conquest mat of twenty each. with 200 per on those then that puts the jawa scrap cost at.... 40,000 for one 268 piece. The old system gave you half so I would expect 20,000 scrap not less that fifty per piece.

I can just imagine now what the prices of Augmentation Slot Component MK-11's, Augmentation Kit MK-11 and all the new Augments that fit into them will be on the GTN. 50 mil? 75 mil? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we see them going for 90 Mil and up.

The only people who will be making and selling them will be from HUGE guilds that require all their members to donate said mats to the Guild Bank.

Crafting has been decimated by the changes in 6.0.

R.I.P. SWTOR Crafting 2019

Crafting:

Do you feel the time and cost for crew skill missions are worth it?

The time seems to have improved since I tested missions before the latest patch so I think this is currently okay. I expected the cost to go up so can't really argue about the higher cost.

As a crafter, do you feel like you have a place in Spoils of War?

As a solo player NO.

The system has been redesigned to benefit guilds who conquest. I don't see any benefit for me as a solo player, however I have not yet tested Biochem which I think might be the only beneficial crafting skill for a solo player in 6.0.

Gathering/Harvesting:

How do you feel about the new materials window?

I did not understand how the new window was supposed to work. In fact, before I noticed it, I thought I was gathering and getting nothing out of it It took me ages to work out that stuff was going into an new place and then aged more working out how to use the new materials inventory. I request an idiots guide in the 6.0 patch notes for anyone who might be as clueless as me!

Slicing

Gathered Level 11 "Credit Cases" do not contain any credits!

A slight update on my crafting experience --

RNG protection does NOT apply to Reverse Engineering things to learn recipes.

To learn the Legendary quality Advanced Kyrprax Medpac MK-2, it took me Reverse Engineering 40 stacks of purple quality Advanced Kyrprax Medpacs. 31 of those stacks were done in one sitting (no instance changes, no logouts, just me standing on the guild ship with the drug factory in high gear). If there was RNG protection, I should've gotten it on the 20th RE given a 5% chance.

This means I blew 28,480 mats JUST to learn the Legendary recipe. Even with infinite money and infinite materials on the PTS, this is way too much. Way too much mats, way too much failed REs, and even still, way too much time spent crafting all the build-up Cell Grafts just to be able to craft that many Advanced Kyrprax Medpacs to begin with.

The stats for the Legendary Advanced Kyrprax Medpac MK-2 are at the bottom:

• https://imgur.com/a/ssNSe67
  

Devs --

• Please make some changes to Grade 11 crafting based on the tons and tons of feedback you've gotten
  
• Please put some of these changes up on the PTS for us to test
  
• Please, at a minimum, acknowledge that you've heard our voices and are making SOME changes to Grade 11 crafting before 6.0 goes live
  

I can just imagine now what the prices of Augmentation Slot Component MK-11's, Augmentation Kit MK-11 and all the new Augments that fit into them will be on the GTN. 50 mil? 75 mil? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we see them going for 90 Mil and up.

 

The only people who will be making and selling them will be from HUGE guilds that require all their members to donate said mats to the Guild Bank.

 

Crafting has been decimated by the changes in 6.0.

 

R.I.P. SWTOR Crafting 2019

How about I deconstructed hundreds of gear pieces and only got 3 mk 11 augmentation components. With such a drop rate no one will have the mats to make the new mk 11 augmentation kits. Unless there is something else that you need to deconstruct to get them like how the mk 10s only come from blue cell grafts on pts instead of both the green and blue.

Devs --

• Please make some changes to Grade 11 crafting based on the tons and tons of feedback you've gotten
  
• Please put some of these changes up on the PTS for us to test
  
• Please, at a minimum, acknowledge that you've heard our voices and are making SOME changes to Grade 11 crafting before 6.0 goes live
  

Yes, please do this so we can test and know you are listening to this feed back

A slight update on my crafting experience --

 

RNG protection does NOT apply to Reverse Engineering things to learn recipes.

 

To learn the Legendary quality Advanced Kyrprax Medpac MK-2, it took me Reverse Engineering 40 stacks of purple quality Advanced Kyrprax Medpacs. 31 of those stacks were done in one sitting (no instance changes, no logouts, just me standing on the guild ship with the drug factory in high gear). If there was RNG protection, I should've gotten it on the 20th RE given a 5% chance.

 

This means I blew 28,480 mats JUST to learn the Legendary recipe. Even with infinite money and infinite materials on the PTS, this is way too much. Way too much mats, way too much failed REs, and even still, way too much time spent crafting all the build-up Cell Grafts just to be able to craft that many Advanced Kyrprax Medpacs to begin with.

I agree. There is no RNG protection on Reverse Engineering. It is a straight up Binomial Probability. With a 5% chance, the chance a player successfully learns the gold version from reverse engineering a purple is about 51% with the 14th attempt. On the 40th attempt, the odds are 87% that it would have been learned by then. 1 out of every 100 players will still have failed by their 90th attempt.

For those that want to play with the math, it involves calculating the result of this version of the Binomial Probability equation, where 'n' is the number of trials and 'p' is the probability of success (so .05, .10, or .20) on any single trial:

P(n,p) = 1 - (1-p)**n

**n means "raised to the power of n" so

1. P(1,p) = 1 - (1-p)
   
2. P(2,p) = 1 - (1-p)*(1-p)
   
3. P(3,p) = 1 - (1-p)*(1-p)*(1-p), etc.