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KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.23.2014 , 02:31 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
Keyboard, do you have a guide like this for Powertech tanking?
I don't have a powertech, and my knowledge of Jugg tanking is far less in-depth than for an assassin. I could probably give you a rundown of the essentials of an optimized powertech rotation, but I couldn't do anything close to what I did in the OP.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

BrianAC's Avatar


BrianAC
01.23.2014 , 05:04 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I used FRAPS on the video in the OP. FRAPS has a lot of performance problems though, so lately I've switched to Bandicam.
Is that a free program? or do i need to buy anything other than the software or w/e?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.23.2014 , 05:10 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianAC View Post
Is that a free program? or do i need to buy anything other than the software or w/e?
Both FRAPS and Bandicam are non-free.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

BrianAC's Avatar


BrianAC
01.23.2014 , 05:50 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Both FRAPS and Bandicam are non-free.
How does bandicam work, do i need to purchase anything besides the software? Or do i need to get something else with it?

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
01.23.2014 , 11:37 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ilith View Post
This post makes vividly clear the issues many people have with requiring this playstyle of a tank. Assassin tank play is more like a DPS rotation where you are forced to monitor multiple, similar-looking buffs and procs. The difference is that when a DPS does this poorly, they simply output less DPS. When a shadow tank does it poorly, they are more likely to cause their group to wipe. Their survival is at stake. And they receive little compensation for this risk. Shadow tanks are both more difficult to play and not as good as tanks with better innate mitigation.

In addition, a shadow tank staring at their buffs has less ability to monitor the fight, make adjustments, and react appropriately to novel situations. This decreases their QOL compared to other tanks, who are accustomed to being able to do this.

KPN's "stress free" guide makes clear out exactly how much monitoring and micromanaging is necessary to not die as a shadow tank. Thank you for the interesting guide.
Most of this is untrue. You do not need to stare or even look at your buff bar for any Shadow/Sin-specific reason and the rotation is simple. The effective rotation for Sins is literally just hitting Shock, Wither, and Discharge on cooldown and using Force Lightning at 3 HS stacks (right after your 2nd Shock). Fill in the gaps with Thrash and that's it. Dark Ward is not part of your "rotation", but you can safely use it on cooldown as well without harming your survivability significantly. Even if the player makes a big mistake with the rotation or there is a large gap of time where you cannot build stacks, you can stealth out to regain them every 2 minutes. The other tanks don't have this option and instead must rebuild their defensive buffs.

The opener for Sins is also the simplest among all the tanks as it's just their normal rotation with Force Pull at the very beginning, taunts sprinkled throughout, and Recklessness popped after the 2nd Shock.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
01.24.2014 , 10:16 AM | #16
I've not used my Shadow much since the self heal was removed...or quite a while before that for that matter. Lately we've found ourselves with a shortage of tanks and abundance of healers though, so I may have to dust him off. It's nice that you have more time to play with now rather than fishing for that Particle Acceleration all the time and getting your TKT channeling ASAP. It used to suck looking at that Shadow Wrap that procced on the same hit as PA and knowing I should use Project->TKT to get the self heal rolling. Now we are more likely to keep that Shadow Wrap proc on cooldown.

With a full 12 sec window is a hybrid using Masked Assault more viable? Or is it too dangerous relying on at least one PA proc in 12 sec? And extra 25% reduced damage for 6 sec sounds like a nice extra cooldown.
Bonkurz

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.24.2014 , 10:56 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ML_DoubleTap View Post
With a full 12 sec window is a hybrid using Masked Assault more viable? Or is it too dangerous relying on at least one PA proc in 12 sec? And extra 25% reduced damage for 6 sec sounds like a nice extra cooldown.
If I remove Slow Time from the rotation, the average minimum time between Telekinetic Throw channels jumps to 16.62 seconds (up from the 8.86 seconds with Slow Time). This initially seems unintuitive due to the fact that Project only has a 6 second cooldown, but remember that Project costs more than Slow Time and Telekinetic Throw is force-positive. Thus, the longer the delay on Telekinetic Throw, the less force we have to waste on Double Strikes attempting to proc Project (and thus Telekinetic Throw). It's a bit of a compounding problem.

All of that is to say that the hybrid spec cannot reliably keep Shadow Protection active. It will miss the window by about 3 GCDs, on average.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
01.24.2014 , 11:25 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
If I remove Slow Time from the rotation, the average time between Telekinetic Throw channels jumps to 16.62 seconds (up from the 8.86 seconds with Slow Time). This initially seems unintuitive due to the fact that Project only has a 6 second cooldown, but remember that Project costs more than Slow Time and Telekinetic Throw is force-positive. Thus, the longer the delay on Telekinetic Throw, the less force we have to waste on Double Strikes attempting to proc Project (and thus Telekinetic Throw). It's a bit of a compounding problem.

All of that is to say that the hybrid spec cannot reliably keep Shadow Protection active. It will miss the window by about 3 GCDs, on average.
So, the following question, is losing 100% uptime on the 4% DR worth 6sec of on demand 25% DR every 60sec? I suppose it would depend on the fight?

Technically, it would be even more than 6sec every 60sec because you reset the cooldown every time you stealth out, and you get 6sec of Shadows Respite when you exit stealth. So, you'd get 6sec to start the fight if you pull from stealth, then another 6sec whenever you want from using Blackout. Then you can get 6 more from combat stealth, with another 6sec from the reset blackout.

So on Draxus for example, you mentioned you have 4 stacks from stealth each time he pops except for the 2nd. So you could have 12sec of 25% DR on each of those(6 from exiting steath, 6 from the reset Blackout). And 6sec of 25% I'm guessing on that second one because it's at least a minute between 1st and second pop isn't it? It could be even more extreme, you could have 18sec of 25% DR on the third if you pop Blackout->4 GCD of whatever->Combat Steath->Taunt->4 GCD of whatever->Blackout. Does that make sense? You'd have to be really quick on the stealth and taunt though...might not be viable. I don't tank enough to know if that would work or not.
Bonkurz

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.24.2014 , 11:38 AM | #19
Stealthing out to reset Blackout while tanking sort of works, but it's touchy and depends on the fight (Raptus is a good example of a fight where it doesn't work at all). 25% DR for 6 seconds every 60 is time-averaged to be 2.5% DR, which almost doubles the time-averaged contribution of the hybrid uptime on Shadow Protection. Which is to say that if bosses trickled out consistent damage with no variation, the hybrid would be stochastically superior!

Of course, there are peaks and valleys. If you can predict where the damage is going to be bad and time both your loss of stacks and your blackout to be in a valley and a peak (respectively), then you'll see really great results. If not…yeah.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
01.24.2014 , 11:53 AM | #20
4% Damage Reduction increase = ~7% DR
Blackout on the other Hand is just a normal 25% DR
Because of that and the reapplytime of Force Lightning, the standard build is superior on average (tough not so much anymore after 2.5.2). The 11 deception hybrid is just slightly superior if you
1. have a permanent 5% damage reduction on the Boss
2. are able to use Vanish on cooldown more or less
3. have a better rotation then 100% Dark Protection stack uptime
Zahik - NoID - The Red Eclipse