So I have read the patch notes and I see that BW has finally upped lightnings damage some what.So my question is ; is it enough to make lightning finally viable for pvp??

I hope so, sadly it won't let me copy my sorc to the pts. Which ironically is the only 50 I want to try

Still installing the pte, but from what I can tell from the patch notes, they upped damage and whacked resource management, taking the rotation from force positive to, possibly, strongly force negative. I'll have a better idea when I can get log in and get to a dummy with an active parser.

So I have read the patch notes and I see that BW has finally upped lightnings damage some what.So my question is ; is it enough to make lightning finally viable for pvp??

 

From my observations in the PTS, full EWH gear yada yada at lvl 55:

 

- No substantial damage buff, you would think our damage has been buffed but the damage other classes do has been "more buffed" than our damage, putting us even further behind in the "burst race" which is PvP

 

- No substantial improvements for PvP

 

- Still non viable

 

Granted i didnt test the sorc with the new PvP gear tho, but i doubt the situation will change.

 

2.0 status = big dissapointment

 

Scum and villainy indeed

Still installing the pte, but from what I can tell from the patch notes, they upped damage and whacked resource management, taking the rotation from force positive to, possibly, strongly force negative. I'll have a better idea when I can get log in and get to a dummy with an active parser.

 

The resource management aspect has me worried. That's one thing I love about Lightning spec, even if I'm not pumping out monstrous damage I always seem to have plenty of force in reserve for spot healing or bubbles if the situation calls for it. If the upped force costs send that all out the window I'm gonna be one sad Sorcerer.

I was hoping they would finally make lightning more bursty (what it rightfully should be).Madness is alright but lightning is more my style ,it's kind of disappointing to hear but it's only the ptr so im trying to stay optimistic here !!

The resource management aspect has me worried. That's one thing I love about Lightning spec, even if I'm not pumping out monstrous damage I always seem to have plenty of force in reserve for spot healing or bubbles if the situation calls for it. If the upped force costs send that all out the window I'm gonna be one sad Sorcerer.

 

You and I are of the same mind. The turrety aspect of this class drives me nuts but the ability to switch to doing a number of other things (off healing, kiting, covering a lot of ground, rooting mobs that get loose from a tank so he's got 5 seconds to recover aggro) on the fly without running out of resources (which can happen when you try to do this stuff specced madness) is the entire reason I like the spec.

 

I also don't like that tumult is gone. Loved that skill

If you've tested Lightning and not noticed a significant damage increase then you're not playing it properly. The numbers Lightning can put out are far better than they have been previously and after parsing with every class at 55 Lightning sorc was one of the strongest. This will of course be hindered by it's more complex rotation, but despite this most of our abilities are doing substantially more damage. Even in the new operation after a wipe I switched from madness to lightning and we downed the boss much, much quicker than the first attempt.

 

In terms of PVP I'm still unsure if it'll be viable in warzones due to survivability but it is more than worthy of a 1v1 or PVE spec.

 

I'll say this simply. Those who were hoping for a more bursty feel, Lightning definitely has some serious burst now.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Elvandar

The resource management aspect has me worried. That's one thing I love about Lightning spec, even if I'm not pumping out monstrous damage I always seem to have plenty of force in reserve for spot healing or bubbles if the situation calls for it. If the upped force costs send that all out the window I'm gonna be one sad Sorcerer.

 

Well, I tested it on a dummy. I ran through everything I could as fast as I could and I barely moved the force bar past 89%. There is no decline in force management whatsoever, if anything, it's better.

 

Few things I noticed:

 

1. Thundering Blast hit for an average of 5500 with Affliction on a single hit.

2. Chain Lightning proc'd almost every time I fired off Thundering Blast

3. Lightning Strike hit for 4k, more when it double strike, even more when it forked!

4. Shocked hit in the 3k range.

5. Force Lightning with Lightning Barrage and Polarity Shift all but fired off in an instant cast and still did more overall damage according to my parser.

6. Crushing Darkness & Affliction hit a lot harder.

 

Now, I was only wearing Arkanian gloves and boots, with implants, ear piece, main and off-hand. So my surge and critical chances were down however, my Will Power was 2600 and my bonus damage was 1200 (or there about). My numbers were off because I wasn't wearing full Arkanian gear. So the damage numbers were off because of that. This is the build I used: 2/39/5.

 

Still, the one thing that bothers me is these few observations:

 

1. Limited Mobility.

2. Limited to no change in survivability compared to the hybrid build I am current using: 20/21.

3. Lightning Spec tree still turns you into a turret.

 

What really sucks is in either Corruption & Madness trees they have the following:

 

1. Corrupted Speed (Corruption): Where it increases duration of Force Speed by 1 second and when Force Barrier ends, it immediately cools down Force Speed.

2. Shapeless Soul (Madness): Reduces damage while stunned by 30%.

 

And in Lightning Tree:

1. Force Haste: Reduces cool down of Force Speed by 5, Force Slow by 3, and Force Barrier by 30 seconds.

 

These two should be in the first or second tier and available to all who can spec for it, including Force Haste. As it is, the Healing Sorcerer or Madness Sorcerer is far more mobile now than new Lightning Sorcerer is.

 

Oh, and when 2.0 launches, we'll still have 41 points and unable to spec into the upper tiers unless we do so without putting anything in the other trees until we reach level 55. Isn't that just wonderful?

 

So in my opinion, nothing has changed. Corruption and Madness remain viable in PvP while Lightning is not based solely on the mobility factor. So I guess I will stay a Hybrid, if not, I guess I retire my Sorcerer never to play this spec again. These Devs truly do not care about addressing the single most important factor to the Sorcerer's survivability when it comes to Lightning, mobility. They want us to be a turret so the super buffed LOLSmash Monkeys can earn their medals along with the others. Sadly, 1.4 forced me to retire my Marauder from play because of the changes to resolve, now it looks like the one AC I enjoyed playing the most because of the challenge and playability will end up the same way.

 

Thank you BioWare for fracking up the Sorcerer as part of your big balancing act and internal God forsaken metrics!

Edited February 22, 2013 by Ghost_Spectre

Thank you BioWare for fracking up the Sorcerer as part of your big balancing act and internal God forsaken metrics!

 

Due to all the stat exploiting it remains unclear whether or not lightning will be viable in PVP. With the significant damage increase, our new ability and the changes to chain lightning it may very well turn out to be half decent in PVP. Yes Lightning spec is a turret, but so are snipers, they're just a little better at it than us since their entire class is based around it.

 

What we do know is overall these changes have made the class a lot better across the board. Bioware clearly aren't good at balance based on their past record, but I for one am very impressed with the changes we've got. I cannot wait to test them all out properly in a legit pvp environment.

 

These changes are good Bioware! You're definitely on the right track now. I'm not saying we don't need more work, but good job so far.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Elvandar

Personally I already have success with full lightning in pvp so I am pretty excited by the changes. I just wish I could try them out

Now, I was only wearing Arkanian gloves and boots, with implants, ear piece, main and off-hand. So my surge and critical chances were down however, my Will Power was 2600 and my bonus damage was 1200 (or there about). My numbers were off because I wasn't wearing full Arkanian gear. So the damage numbers were off because of that. This is the build I used: 2/39/5.

 

 

3 points wasted in Lightning Spire and Lightning Barrier IMO, better spent in Corruption's 3% force crit increase.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601481

 

good read on lightning experiences on PvP at the PTS.

Laforet,

 

That thread talks a lot about forked darkness. There are Four problems I have with Forked Darkness.

1 DoT buffs should be in Madness, not lightning

2 You can not get both Forked Darkness and Wrath, which would make it useful

3 The proc chance and damage buff are both too low, especially for a T7, it basically requires force Nexus to be useful

4 There are already too many abilities chained together in lightning, why one more.

 

Simple solution, place the Thundering Blast portion in Forked lightning, and switch Forked Darkness with Focal Lightning, as Lightning is the tree that could benefit more from Alacrity anyways.

Laforet,

 

That thread talks a lot about forked darkness. There are Four problems I have with Forked Darkness.

1 DoT buffs should be in Madness, not lightning

2 You can not get both Forked Darkness and Wrath, which would make it useful

3 The proc chance and damage buff are both too low, especially for a T7, it basically requires force Nexus to be useful

4 There are already too many abilities chained together in lightning, why one more.

 

Simple solution, place the Thundering Blast portion in Forked lightning, and switch Forked Darkness with Focal Lightning, as Lightning is the tree that could benefit more from Alacrity anyways.

 

You are on spot on your observations i hope some developer notices it, have you posted on the PTS thread?

You are on spot on your observations i hope some developer notices it, have you posted on the PTS thread?

 

Yes. I started a thread there, no replies yet.

3 points wasted in Lightning Spire and Lightning Barrier IMO, better spent in Corruption's 3% force crit increase.

 

So you want me to give up a range advantage and survivability just to increase critical chance by 3%? You go right ahead, I won't do it. Especially with survivability being nerfed for the Sorcerer in 2.0 thanks to the reduction in Lightning Barrier. I will continue to play a hybrid because going full lightning is still a waste of time. BioWare fails again to do the right thing for the Sorcerer class.

Still see no point because either way you're gona be within 30 meters to cast Affliction to get your insta crit on Thundering Blast. And as far as Lightning Barrier, an extra 10% of a low amount isn't that great I think. Better to go with an extra flat out 3% force crit increase as far as DPS goes I think, especially with the crit/surge nerf. Edited February 24, 2013 by Fireswraith

Still see no point because either way you're gona be within 30 meters to cast Affliction to get your insta crit on Thundering Blast. And as far as Lightning Barrier, an extra 10% of a low amount isn't that great I think. Better to go with an extra flat out 3% force crit increase as far as DPS goes I think, especially with the crit/surge nerf.

 

I will not be speccing full Lightning with 2.0...or ever again, unless they correct the issues the are creating and have created. If they do not, I will not play my Sorcerer in PvP again. I'll just play my Jugg tank and nothing else in PvP.

 

I will continue to spec the way I am and keep Lightning Spire and Barrier even if they nerf it, because without it, the survivability drops more.

Anyone know a good rotation and build? When I parsed on live and on PTS I noticed a +500 dps (1557 to 2083) right off the bat in pure Arkanian gear with no optimization minus the removal of the accuracy enhancement. I ran with a sorc on my tank who says he is pulling 2.3k and I've seen parses o 2.3k.

 

Currently I am running 5/36/5, my stats are:

~2400 end (28k hp)

~2650 wp

crit 25% (333ish rating)

surge 68% (can't remember rating, will edit in)

alacrity 7.8% (450ish rating)

power: ~1000 (1.3k bonus damage)

 

Based on the stat difference between live and PTS, the lose of 10% crit and 7% surge shouldn't account for 300 dps. So I'm thinking its my rotation which is the same in live and PTS.

Anyone know a good rotation and build? When I parsed on live and on PTS I noticed a +500 dps (1557 to 2083) right off the bat in pure Arkanian gear with no optimization minus the removal of the accuracy enhancement. I ran with a sorc on my tank who says he is pulling 2.3k and I've seen parses o 2.3k.

 

Currently I am running 5/36/5, my stats are:

~2400 end (28k hp)

~2650 wp

crit 25% (333ish rating)

surge 68% (can't remember rating, will edit in)

alacrity 7.8% (450ish rating)

power: ~1000 (1.3k bonus damage)

 

Based on the stat difference between live and PTS, the lose of 10% crit and 7% surge shouldn't account for 300 dps. So I'm thinking its my rotation which is the same in live and PTS.

 

I dropped crit to around 150-ish, put the rest in power and parsed a solid (and more or less exact) 2200 on the fleet ops dummy today (this is with no relics, no stim and no adrenal). This was a 350 dps gain vs what I saw in stock gear using lightning. If I had an on-use relic and a stim, I'm sure I'd have seen 2300.

 

Rest of my itemization was, more or less, the same as yours. I may even drop crit to zero.

 

Thinking that with how little crit "crit" adds, classes with auto-crit abilities might be able to just stack power and come out ahead. But I'll have to do more testing.

 

My pyro's the one I can't get a good parse out of (~1900 with no on-use relic in the default gear). Have no idea how to manage crit and power tradeoff or the surge/accuracy budget on him now.

 

Edit: I used this

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=230000000000000000000000000000000323

 

rotation is pretty much affliction->thundering blast->if lightning storm procs, I use polarity shift, if not lightning strike until I get it-->polarity shift-->CD-->recklessness-->CL-->barrage if it's up-->shock if it's not--> then the following in priority as they proc or come off cooldown

 

affliction

TB

Lightning storm CL

Barrage (procs a lot less often, though)

CD

Lightning strike

Edited February 25, 2013 by Larry_Dallas

snipped

 

My rotation is similar to yours, almost exactly the same in fact. The only notable differences are my opening and when I use Recklessness.

 

My opening is: Affliction>Thundering Blast>Crushing Darkness>Lightning Strike (unless Barrage or Conduction occur)> reapply DoTs

 

Then I save Recklessness for Conduction and I use Polarity shift on CD. I also try to use Force Lightning before Chain Lightning so that possible second strike doesn't eat up a charge of Recklessness.

 

Oh and I don't use shock at all in my rotation since on live it worsens my DPS. Considering how BW moved Chain Shock (is that the sin name or both?) to tier one lightning tree, I'm stuck with it so I might as well try it out.

 

I'll have to give it a shot with the clicky relics since I still favor the elemental DG proc and the matrix cube.

Right now my total crit and lack of 1% alacrity feels horrible but doesn't seem to make a difference.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Diablo_Cow

Thinking behind using recklessness during polarity shift (instead of waiting for conduction) is the skill called chaos nexus which doubles the proc rate of forked lightning. Added crit damage to a skill that crits for 30% of what CL crits for > 3% damage bonus I'm thinking.

 

Unfortunately, I can't say for certain that they've fixed the bug where double-strike skills like that and chain shock don't apply recklessness to the second charge (or apply it and eat an additional charge), but I'm parsing higher this way, so I'll stick with it until I see evidence that something different is better or that the second charge does not apply recklessness.

 

Edit: and yeah, the fact that chain shock more or less must be taken now is the only reason I would use it at all, apart from needing to move.

 

Edit #2: I used to use barrage before Chain lightning for the same reason you did, but it procs so seldom now I switched it up. I'll have to pay closer attention to whether or not CL is eating both charges or if one is applying to both skills. Was more focused on not losing casts to fleet lag and may have missed that. I'll take a look later today and report back.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Larry_Dallas

I'll go see about Chaos Nexus, looks like I glossed over it when I was filing out my skill tree. Given how often I use the Recklessness+Polarity shift combo the DPS loss could be either fully or fractionally from that.

 

EDIT: I think I need to go parse on the ship dummy. During my sorc parse I noticed a lot of lag and Affliction clipping. Its possible that my dps will go up then. If worse comes to worse I could try respeccing to madness to see how that compares. I did a similar length test on my pts sniper with the gear from vendors and without any optimization. The results were a 1900 dps which was shocking.

 

Based on those two parses I've come to the conclusion that I am facing hyperbole, my own mistakes, or a combination of the two. I am leaning towards my own mistakes and will have to work my rotations and look for a lag free environment.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Diablo_Cow