I keep seeing all these threads in this forum and the running theme is that SWTOR is going to fail is failing has already failed. The time lines for these failure projections range from 2 weeks to 6 months to a year, but what determines if SWTOR is a failure?

 

1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure!

 

The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions

 

2. The game will fail because tons of people are unsubscribing and SWTOR will just die from lack of players!

 

The fact is not every game is WoW, every game doesn't need 11 million players to stay alive. There are plenty of MMOs that not only survive but thrive with only a few hundred thousand players and are in no danger of being shut down. Star Wars Galaxies lasted over 8 years with a rather small player base compared to WoW. Even if 90% of all the current SWTOR players quit it still would not die. If you judge the success or failure of a MMO on whether it knocks WoW off the MMO mountain then every MMO is a failure in your eyes.

 

3. SWTOR is failing so bad it will be Free To Play in "X" weeks/months!

 

The fact is a game going Free To Play doesn't constitute a failure. In fact most MMOs that switch from a subscription based business model to a Free to Play + Microtransactions business model see a surge in their player base. Examples being LOTRO and DC Universe Online, which is a perfect example as it had a great release then lost most of it's subscribers in the first few months then late last year they went free to play + microtransactions and then gained over 1 million new players. Farmville works on a free to play + microtransactions model and has a player base of over 110 million players with an average 32 million players playing online at any given moment. Zynga makes over $500 million a year just from Farmville. A game being or becoming free to play hardly constitutes a failure in fact it is probably just the opposite.

 

So exactly what has determined that SWTOR will fail and/or die? What massive MMO expertise do you bring to the table that allows you disregard the above facts? What makes SWTOR a failure? Because you or many of you have decided to quit playing? I hate to break it to you but SWTOR will still be alive and well for years to come whether you are here or not.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Robbathehutt

There are too many reasons why it fails for me to list, but to put it simply, to me it fails because there are too many crucial things wrong to continue paying $15 for it.

 

It's as simple as that. The game is fun, but the fun only lasts temporarily. And in an MMO that is not a good thing.

To some people the only thing that doesn't constitute failure is to beat WoW's numbers which is ridiculous. TOR is doing very well even against WoW western market; I personally see a lot of profitable years of being called a failure by the WoW defense force.

i dont care who considers it a failure. it aint fun for me

There are too many reasons why it fails for me to list, but to put it simply, to me it fails because there are too many crucial things wrong to continue paying $15 for it.

 

It's as simple as that. The game is fun, but the fun only lasts temporarily. And in an MMO that is not a good thing.

 

Once again just because the game failed in your eyes doesn't mean it's a failure financially or otherwise. If someone eats a Big Mac and doesn't like it does that mean that McDonalds and Big Macs are failures? Billions & Billions served say otherwise....

i dont care who considers it a failure. it aint fun for me

 

It ISN'T fun for me, not AIN'T.

i dont care who considers it a failure. it aint fun for me

 

You know if it's not fun for you I get that, not everyone likes the same things. I quit WoW over a year ago and to my surprise the game is still going strong even though I'm not there. In fact they have lost about a million subscribers yet somehow they still haven't failed. One person quitting doesn't make a game a failure even if 10% of the games population quits in a year like what happened to WoW in 2011 it still isn't close to failing.

It's not a failure at this point. There are some people with zero credibility trying to state it's a failure as though that's a foregone conclusion. Those people are stupid. It's too early to make a statement about that from a business perspective.

Warhammer Online also sold around a million copies within a week, that cost less to make than The Old Republic. Look how that turned out.

EA Louse's post makes a lot of sense now that I look back on it and have the game in my hands.

Once again just because the game failed in your eyes doesn't mean it's a failure financially or otherwise. If someone eats a Big Mac and doesn't like it does that mean that McDonalds and Big Macs are failures? Billions & Billions served say otherwise....

 

What you say is true to an extent.

 

However, in terms of expectations, it may fail substantially. We'll see how many subs it has in a year, but my guess is it's around 750K. That will be substantially lower than EA has said they hoped to retain.

 

Their expectations are to retain over 1 million subs. I just don't see any way that's going to happen.

What determines SWTORs failure...

 

Game has been live for 2 weeks now, almost 4 if you count early access and in the last 2 days....thats 2...days...with 1000s of posts about bugs, not being able to play, game interuptions, server issues, graphic issues...in 2 DAYS...there have been a total of 4, thats FOUR replies by Bioware.

 

4

 

And I do believe that issue is the single most complained about issue over all the forums...complete lack of communcation.

Edited January 3, 2012 by gregordunbar

Warhammer Online also sold around a million copies within a week, that cost less to make than The Old Republic. Look how that turned out.

 

And other games had less than steller fist week sales and went on to become big titles in their day.

 

 

First week sales means nothing.

 

Retention means anything, and retention doesn't happen or apply until 2 milestones.

 

End of free month.

Three month.

 

Those (so far) have been the tell tale milestones. Free month ends we see the initial drop off (all games have them). Three month we should see changes, fixes, features which will give indicators to i'ts longevity.

 

 

2 weeks, 3 weeks, a month. To early for ANY authoritative prognostication.

 

 

The only thing that can be said is - it is fun for me, it is not fun for me - neither are qualitative indicators as to the games overall success.

It's mentioned in an interview before even if SWTOR has only 500,000 players it would still be a very viable venture.

Once again just because the game failed in your eyes doesn't mean it's a failure financially or otherwise. If someone eats a Big Mac and doesn't like it does that mean that McDonalds and Big Macs are failures? Billions & Billions served say otherwise....

 

I think you are having issues understanding something. If it's a failure to me...it's a failure to me. And to me that's all that matters. Whether it's a failure to you or anyone else doesn't really matter to me, now does it?

Bioware will hurt this game before anything else does. The ball is in Biowares court. We players can only tell them what we think is wrong with the game, it is up to Bioware to address and fix the issues that many think are severely lacking or are broken. If Bioware fails to act. The game will no doubt follow the trail of other games that failed to deliver a good MMO that would keep people playing for months and months. and in 3 to 6 months we'll know, because people will be screaming for server mergers.

 

VO's can only go so far.

I think you are having issues understanding something. If it's a failure to me...it's a failure to me. And to me that's all that matters. Whether it's a failure to you or anyone else doesn't really matter to me, now does it?

 

I believe you're having difficulty understanding what this topic is about. It's about whether or not the game is a failure in the marketplace.

 

It's not about you.

If it does fail then it will be from subscripton based issues. Anything wrong for the user and it all comes down to the subscription.

 

The game is awesome but the UI and the lack of progress will end it for me.

 

It's like trying to play a game you know is awesome but to get to the awsome content you have to deal with a crappy game ui which makes me not even want to play. There is nothing smooth about this game except for the launch. Make me struggle to play and I will leave or get drunk and not care about it while mindlessly giving BW 15 bucks a month.

I think you are having issues understanding something. If it's a failure to me...it's a failure to me. And to me that's all that matters. Whether it's a failure to you or anyone else doesn't really matter to me, now does it?

 

I think you are confusing opinion with fact. If you think the game is a failure that's an opinion, it doesn't prove the game itself is a failure financially or otherwise.

 

And that what this thread is about people going around on these forums declaring that SWTOR has failed is a failure will fail as if it's a fact when in fact it's just theirs and your opinion.

As of right now I have no reason to ever resub to WoW and it is thanks to this game.

It's mentioned in an interview before even if SWTOR has only 500,000 players it would still be a very viable venture.

 

 

I believe they said they needed 500K to turn a profit. I don't think they said anything about it being "very viable" at that number. 500K might be a $1 profit.

 

They also said that 1 million subs would be, "nothing to write home about." And what I think you can infer from that comment is that they expect more than 1 million subs. Maybe even a lot more.

 

I just don't see that happening. I don't even think they retain 1 million subs after 6 months.

For me, it's the lack of community. Say what you will about other MMOs, but I know Cryptic, Blizzard, Old Mythic pre-BW Mythic, Turbine...they're all very hands on and communicate and maintain dialogues.

 

I just don't feel "friendly" with the CSR or dev teams, and I have never felt that way even during Beta.

Nobody on these forums has done the market research to justify calling this game a failure from a financial standpoint. Most of the real numbers are not even available yet. No, your friend who works at Bioware did not slip up at a drunken New Years party and tell you. You're a liar.

 

Nobody on these forums has the development experience to call this game a failure from a development standpoint. As a developer myself I can only conjecture the difficulties this team faces on such a large and ambitious product. It is conjecture because I do not make MMO's. If I made MMO's for a living I would likely be bound by an NDA not to mention it or even post on my competitions forums. No, you do not put your job at risk by violating your own NDA and proxying to the SWTOR forums. You're a liar.

 

Everybody on these forums is qualified to judge whether or not they themselves enjoy the game.

 

Not one of them is qualified to then present their opinion as facts, yet every single one of them does so.

 

/thread

Edited January 3, 2012 by freakuancy

error 9000, 1003, came hangs , no customer service other than ambiguous automated reples that address nothing = to me thats a faliure

The oft-repeated canard of mass unsubscriptions simply doesn't pass the sniff test.