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Gods from the Machine Mastermode/Nightmare Talkthrough-videos / Guides

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Gods from the Machine Mastermode/Nightmare Talkthrough-videos / Guides

Zwirni's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 03:16 PM | #1
Hey there,

we were finally able to take some time out of our busy schedules to clear Gods from the Machine MasterMode and as always I have prepared some talkthrough-videos for you. Even if you are starting out right now you still have enough time to clear GftM NiM/MM before 6.0 hits in mid-september and I hope that these videos will help you accomplish your goals. Our total progression time was 41 hours and that is what you are probably looking at realistically when you are dedicated, prepared, have a good group and willing to use the correct raid compositions like at least 2 PTs on Nahut. Especially important is that you know your own weaknesses and are able to create tactics that circumvent those.

I am very proud of everyone in <Berserk>. Actually I sat down with someone beforehand and we tried to "calculate" how much progression time we would actually need. The result was 40 hours and we indeed needed exactly 40 hours to get our first Izax 0% try which is quite funny to me that we were able to predict it that well.
Here is a more detailed list if you are interested, including rekills etc.

We focussed purely on killing every boss and didn't care to avoid any exploits that are still in the game after 8 months. So you will see us using forcecloak on Tyth, using 7/7 stacks on Scyva and some other minor things that are definitely not intended.

The complete playlist:






Lastly I want to talk about the current state of the game and the playerbase.
It is always sad to see that most people who play small games like SW:ToR feel threatened by the success of others instead of being supportive and willing to help. This is clearly evidenced by the fact that over 120 people already killed Izax NiM but noone publicly released guides or even simple talkthrough-videos like I make them.
In total contrast to other games where guides are released even during PTS because everyone knows that guides don't diminish their chance of succeeding but rather keep the game alive and encourage other players to try the operation themselves. Instead you get constant hate from people and a lot of them even told us that it is not a big deal what we accomplished because everything is known, even by guilds who took over 2 months to kill Nahut after <Farming Components> released their kill video. In comparison, again, it took us 14h30min.
Are we now better than them? The answer is: who cares?
The sad truth is that these people feel so threatened by us that they see no other way than to insult us because it is impossible for them to take a step back and reflect on their own behaviour.

That unfortunately affects the current state of the game as well. People don't get banned permanently because the game is so small and Bioware/EA wants to keep every paying customer. In every other MMO people who already got banned over 4 times for a week would be permanently banned and you would remove toxic and, plainly put, annoying people from the playerbase. You might have noticed that I avoided the word "community" at every turn. It is because there is no overall community-feeling left. Everyone is out for themselves and most people only try to help/encourage/assist a very limited number of players that they deem worthy of their time.
This is also because there are so many people in the playerbase of SW:ToR who in no other MMO would be tolerated and therefor banned.

Luckily for everyone you all get a new chance to behave like decent human beings when 6.0 hits and maybe, just maybe, a sense of community could return.

Have a nice day,

Since most people won't be bothered to read the whole thread I will pin this answer because it sums up everything very well.
Quote: Originally Posted by GamingCrimes View Post
Since most of the replies to this thread seem to miss a lot of information, I just quickly want to clarify some things regarding Zwirni's post.

1.: Berserk went blind into the instance.

Our roster consists of 11 people, 2 of which cleared the instance already, one formerly being part of Infinitas and one being part of Better Now. I raided with Braindead Minds so I cleared 2/5 of the instance, three other people also cleared 2/5 bosses beforehand. We never said that we would go into the instance blind. I would like to see the source for this, but it probably just doesn't exist.
BTW: one of our raiders, Edvora to be exact, only has 3% of his eyesight left.

2.: We got carried by other guilds.

The only person that is currently not in our guild that was raiding with us is Nachtsense. Nachtsense used to play with us in Berserk back when we first created the guild and he still is a good friend of ours. Out of 15 days, he was around for ~5 days and helped us if we were missing a player. I can't prove that he didn't "carry" our tactics discussion, since we didn't stream with voice, but I can say that he wasn't the deciding factor in killing the bosses.

3.: We stole other guilds tactics.

We did take a look at the kill videos of other guilds and they were a great help. Our first Tyth kill was achieved by using our own tactic, but we changed it to a more common one since it is really hard to pull of consistently. On the other bosses we just looked for something that worked for us. Please don't get triggered because Zwirni said in his Nahut Video that the path in P1 is "our tactic". It's not, but I certainly don't think that it was Zwirni's intention to claim that this path was made by us.

4.: We blame the nightmare community for not being helpful and simply put, toxic.

First off I want to say that we don't know every single nightmare raider or every single nightmare raiding guild. But if you want prove that some parts of the nightmare raiding community are very toxic, just look at our twitch chat during progression. We were getting flamed for wiping, because "there are multiple kill videos out already, why don't you just kill the boss with that information". Just Nahigo's reaction to the talkthrough videos today shows a lot about the nightmare raiding community. After our first A&E kill our marauder was getting flamed for doing low dps, without even congratulating us for killing a more or less hard nightmare boss. It's just flame and unnecessary toxicity. There certainly are some helpful nightmare raiders, but in my experience, there are little left.
I don't think it is fair to say that no one in the nightmare community is helpful and friendly, but there certainly are reasons for Zwirni's claims.
EDIT: I just want to underline that Zwirni used the word publicly. Yes, everyone is helpful if they get asked, but new players just don't know any nightmare raiders and for those players a public talkthrough video is very, very helpful. And if you don't want to know the fight before even entering the instance, you are able to just not watch the video, because we are humans and can make our own decisions.

5.: We are bad because we took a long time for clearing the instance after it's been out for 9 months.

Most of the replies in this thread aren't directly discussing this statement, however I just quickly want to talk about this.
Most guilds took a very long time for clearing GftM, which is completely fine since it is a hard instance, but sadly a lot of them seem to forget the time when they were progressing the instance. Guilds like <Better now> (which probably are the main reason Zwirni is even making his statement) had kill videos as well, yet they took way more time on the individual boss fights than us. Now that we killed the boss, we are getting flamed for "not killing the boss the right way". I think most of you only speak highly of the raiding community because you don't understand german, feel free to translate:

6.: Exploits.

Yes, we think there are a lot of exploits that are being used for killing bosses. The only thing that Zwirni did was point this out, but this apparently automatically means that we blame others for using this. We used them ourselves, because we don't care about it, we just think it's funny that the only progression thread for this game is saying that "Exploits will not be tolerated", however no one really knows how to define what an exploit in this game is. Also, don't take everything too seriously. Putting "World First GftM Progression" in our streaming title is obviously a meme.

Lastly I want to thank every single guild for releasing their kill videos, they helped a lot. Also thank you to everyone who was, for a change of pace, supportive in our twitch chats and actually congratulated us for killing the bosses and clearing the instance.

SineOris's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 03:19 PM | #2
Tyth first kill after 90min yet whole world saw you wiping for 3h there on first stream or was that warmup and doesnt count
Biggest drama clown on server - Foolish parody of a tank
Tomb Of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Zwirni's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 03:20 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by SineOris View Post
Tyth first kill after 90min yet whole world saw you wiping for 3h there on first stream or was that warmup and doesnt count
We killed it the day before reset. On stream btw.
But thanks for proving my last paragraph

Magvay's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 03:41 PM | #4
Copying all strats and calling them your own(and you also told that you are going blind), taking forever to kill them anyway and calling wrong timers on kills, and i asure you moderators in this game do more actually than WoW CS do, you are a hypocrite, thinking you can fool all community and get some internet fame by telling lies to everyone. Because of such players there are no raiding community actually you need guides for something that is out for what 8-9 month and before that there were no new operations from 3.0 end. The top guilds actually doing a favor not telling much cause that way operation will be new to you, also you could just ask someone from guilds who killed izax how to do certain mechanic aka socialise, but you did insist you need none and you going blind so that is what you get.

Zwirni's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 04:06 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Magvay View Post
Copying all strats and calling them your own(and you also told that you are going blind),
Source? I never claimed that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Magvay View Post
The top guilds actually doing a favor not telling much cause that way operation will be new to you
I disagree, explained above.

CliffRedemption's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 04:38 PM | #6
Wow you are so great. Bioware should hire you for your profound insights.

chipequssmlgpro's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 04:43 PM | #7

First of all, congrats on full clear! It's obviously a tremendous achievement considering how hard mechanic-wise, dps check-wise and heal-wise Gods from the Machine on Nightmare difficulty are. Really big congrats!

Now, I wanted to share <Farming Components> wipecounter for Gods from the Machine just for comparison purposes here, please, keep in mind that we were obviously on PTS and this diagram shows only LIVE servers progression. Our current lineup formed only when Tyth and Sisters were already unpullable so we started on Nahut, only some of us pulled Tyth and Sisters. We also needed around 5? weeks if I'm not mistaken to farm gear in between of raids, as also farm Reputation to be able to use that gear, that said, our Tyth, Sisters, Nahut, Scyva and even Izax kills were without full 258 gear, not to mention Timer without mainhands.
Now I wanted to talk about your attitude in your post above, like here
Quote: Originally Posted by Zwirni View Post
Lastly I want to talk about the current state of the game and the playerbase.
It is always sad to see that most people who play small games like SW:ToR feel threatened by the success of others instead of being supportive and willing to help. This is clearly evidenced by the fact that over 120 people already killed Izax NiM but noone publicly released guides or even simple talkthrough-videos like I make them.
You accuse us, as in all groups that cleared Gods instance of being egoistic and scared of not helping anyone but themselves, which is a total lie, if you would check YouTube you could see loads of Video kills of every boss from many of the teams, they're obviously not fully fledged Guides, but I think simple kill videos are more than enough for capable team to figure out what's going on in a fight, especially if said group had HM Gods on farm. Not to mention people who cleared the instance long time ago which are helping other teams to clear the instance with their knowledge and insight like myself, and many many more, and I feel like figuring the fight on your own is much more rewarding and fills you with sort of pride and joy when you down the boss rather than having 2 people that have cleared the instance incl. Timer that tell you exactly what to do . I say this, because after watching your guides just now(I haven't watched them fully will do it tomorrow when I get back from work) I dare say that because from what I saw on your and your teammates streams you already had 2 <Better Now> members in your group basically holding your hand telling you exactly what to do, I'm not saying it's bad and all, but saying you guys calculated how long you're going to need to fully clear the instance is a bit hilarious considering you technically didn't have to progress the bosses, just copy paste from kill videos and from the 2 mentioned people that told you exactly what to do. Also, what I noticed watching your Nahut guide, if I'm not mistaken, you said here at 0:14 "our tactics", it's not so nice to not even mention the original creators of "your" strat on Nahut which was Group Emerald from <Failure> and claiming it as your own , Same goes for pretty much every other boss. I know you try to be some sort of Raiding Community hero, you want to be "the" someone who unites and helps everyone with your holier than thou attitude, but what you don't see is "we" the community are actually helping eachother as I've said above. I dunno what should I add more.

Also, last, but not least, congrats once again on full clear!


BlackMeau's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 04:44 PM | #8
wow, just wow.... it took me a while to calm down after I read this post. It's really impressive, how so many things a person believes to know, can be wrong. Im so sorry nobody told you whats right. Sooo, let me fix that for you:

1. "something that is out for what 8-9 month and before that there were no new operations from 3.0 end" - Our Izax kill was world 12. I think there're more than 12 guilds raiding nightmare, much more. And considering my own swtor experience, guides aren't bound to a certain patch, neither raids. GftM will be most likely adjusted to new levels and itemlevels in the future. Dread Fortress for example was released with Patch 2.X and got adjusted with 4.X. I think Dulfy's guides for example were very useful for new players in 4.X, when trying to clear DF - at least for me.

2. "The top guilds actually doing a favor not telling much cause that way operation will be new to you" - uhhhm yeah... we forced everybody without the achievements to watch the videos. Wait we didn't. There's a cool thing called emancipation - i'll explain it for you: being independently, being able to make your own decisions. It makes me sick ... you're denying everybody else their free choice of watching the videos and knowing strats or not watching them. We already had that in the past, don't need it anymore. Stop devalue other human beings, thinking they aren't capable of making their own decisions.

3. "could just ask someone from guilds who killed izax how to do certain mechanic aka socialise" On the one hand you say "top guilds actually doing a favor not telling much", on the other "could just ask" isn't that a contradiction? Doesn't matter anyway...Watching videos is much easier. They're always ready and also you can see the actual bossfight and you can pause anytime. Additionally - for me a big point - the video is always the same and a good one mentiones everything important.

4. "taking forever to kill them" - Our progression time isn't higher than the progression time of other guilds. Your point just isn't true.

5. "calling wrong timers on kills" - Zwirni mentions it above: "Our total progression [...]". I think it's unclear what this means. Progression isn't reclear, you can count reclear as progression of course but we didn't. Our progression time are pure pulls until first kill, no adds, no running to bosses, no reclear.

6. "Copying all strats and calling them your own" - Yeah we watched different guilds clearing GftM and of course we copied their tactics somehow. We only had 5 weeks to clear the whole instance, that's why we used everything we got. We had no interest in comparing with other guilds - we aren't even in the progression thread. Your statement sounds like "stealing all strats" in my ears. I don't think so, in my opinion it's learning from eachother and picking best strats to clear the instance. I don't know if Zwirni claimed the tactics as his own to be honest.

Hope I was able to clearify the points above. Ask me when something is unclear. Have a nice day (:

Edit 1:Zwirni and I disagree in many things regarding SWTOR or the need of telling people how they seem to behave. But I cant accept the wrong facts above and had to correct them.

Edit 2: I hate flame and comparisons in swtor. I don't feel the need of ranking guilds, players, kills, whatever. Please don't read any ranking, comparison, flame out of my post - it's not intended! (except the first sentence lol - sorry for that.... here's a hug :3 )
Ray @Tulak Hord

Magvay's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 04:56 PM | #9
DF/DP that are now same as Revan HM already include nerfs on them, give NIM buff back and only couple of teams will clear them, so don't try to make it look like you down them as great acomplishment,you saying you did great but also you want a full walkthrough from top guilds then why the hell you raiding just watch gameplay on youtube same stuff for you, as chip told you have 2 members that already killed izax so basically you got carried. TLDR you got full 258 gear, you got all the strats ready for you, you got 2 members carrying you but you still making it look like you did everything from scratch on your own. And yes i mean as top guilds should not release guides to make operation thrill for more people last longer.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar

07.22.2019 , 04:59 PM | #10
First of all, I think it’s positive that you have spent time to create these videos, they are mostly correct and combined with videos from other teams, are a great resource for players venturing into Nightmare Gods for the first time. That said, in regards to your thoughts on the Nightmare community. You would rarely find players avoiding to help through answering questions and as you say, the videos that other teams posted of their kills as well as having players who had already done all the fights in your raid group, help you guys a lot as well. That, however, makes the latter part of your thread a bit confusing because as one can see from the streams from your team, very few of your strategies are original, despite “going in blind”.

I find it quite reasonable to be honest that a team who start their progress this late and have the strategies, mechanics and tactics for each boss fight available to them, along with having players who have done it before in their raid group, would kill all the bosses in the instance in a shorter time than teams who created said tactics and discovered how to deal with the new mechanics. I find it quite confusing how that seems to be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but perhaps I misread your post due to the language barrier?

I was fortunate enough to be part of a raiding group that started early with our progression and thus got the opportunity to do bosses without knowing the mechanics or how to deal with them. Naturally, it took us longer than you guys to kill the bosses, but then again we didn’t have any guides to read , that said I wouldn’t have liked to have had it any other way. That additional layer of challenge which this provided is something I enjoyed and I know lots of other players feel the same. On EU when there were players from more experienced groups filling in for groups that were progressing they weren’t instantly explaining everything, instead, the groups were allowed to progress independently with the players answering questions and helping the groups to understand the mechanics themselves if they wanted to. I am sure if these groups had players who had done all the fights before, could explain the strategies and execute the more difficult to learn mechanics, Izax would have been killed a lot earlier for all of them, but they didn't choose the same path as your team.

That is the type of raiding community I think that we should be promoting, where players can do the boss fights without having someone hold their hand but also have the opportunity to ask questions or get information from different sources on how to improve and what to do if want to. Your videos are one part of building that, but you seem to neglect that there is so much more that is also needed, such as getting help from more experienced players, watching videos and using strategies others developed, which were key in your own progression.

As you say 6.0 means a new opportunity to start a new page for players to build on their respective servers raiding community, and I hope you as well as the other members of Berserk take a second to look at the tone of this thread and it’s message to see if this is really the way you want to start that off. There is already a vibrant and extensive raiding community, your server included, but with the way that you act all “high and mighty” while at the same time discrediting the efforts and accomplishments of others, starting on a new page at 6.0 might be too late.

All that said, once again good job with the videos and congratulations on your kill!

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