None of these arguments are remotely related to the Kaggath, so I suggest we put a lid on them.

Not really an argument.

But yeh, none of the Kaggath threads remain Kaggath related They become our chat room until the next one coms up, you know this.

Edit: And oh crap, time to edit out everything I told you guys because I just realised what you mean -_-

Yeah, it's super cool.

Been wanting to use it for ages, just had to go Light Side for this round.....

Still can't come up with a second ground unit, but I'm working on it.

Yah, doesn't really answer the question. I'm talking about the Dragonball Z stuff.

it has nothing to do with the Datamined stuff..... that was an opinion, I cover multiple subjects in 1 go.....

Not really an argument.

 

But yeh, none of the Kaggath threads remain Kaggath related They become our chat room until the next one coms up, you know this.

 

Edit: And oh crap, time to edit out everything I told you guys because I just realised what you mean -_-

this is the truth right here. as for the Datamined thing i guess I can dig it up again....

it has nothing to do with the Datamined stuff..... that was an opinion, I cover multiple subjects in 1 go.....

Oh its just you said "X might change my mind."

About how capable Vitiate would be against an exceptionally powerful Saber Jocky, though I doubt it would change my mind about the whole "power levels" thing That is just not how I view Star Wars..... Or Star Wars characters, I think that allows me to enjoy them and think of everyone as powerful in their own way. Honestly These days I do wonder why Grand Master Luke is still disallowed, he is beatable we have seen this. I see why no Palps because level of destruction and what have you.... but not understanding why no GM Luke lately lol.

About how capable Vitiate would be against an exceptionally powerful Saber Jocky, though I doubt it would change my mind about the whole "power levels" thing That is just not how I view Star Wars..... Or Star Wars characters, I think that allows me to enjoy them and think of everyone as powerful in their own way. Honestly These days I do wonder why Grand Master Luke is still disallowed, he is beatable we have seen this. I see why no Palps because level of destruction and what have you.... but not understanding why no GM Luke lately lol.

So yeah, because Luke is an "I win" card in any combat situation.

Considering Luke Skywalker is the greatest lightsaber duelist ever and most powerful Force User ever who can theoretically Force grip anyone bar Sidious I only see him being defeated through overwhelming circumstance.

 

So yeah, because Luke is an "I win" card in any combat situation.

Pretty much this.

Now post my Kaggath.

Considering Luke Skywalker is the greatest lightsaber duelist ever and most powerful Force User ever who can theoretically Force grip anyone bar Sidious I only see him being defeated through overwhelming circumstance.

 

So yeah, because Luke is an "I win" card in any combat situation.

He doesnt Force grip "just about anybody" though. I man by this logic the person that goes to the "most powerful list" and finds the highest one up that isnt band auto wins as well dont they?

Throw in Darth Plageus or Exar Kun and its the same thing. Especially Kun, in 1v1 confrontation according to the lists, which every one likes pointing to rather then debating strengths and weaknesses, he would win against every one. It would be no different. He can just *force blast* and win, or just beat you with his saber for a vast majority of opponents. Only Mace and Jaina are listed as higher in saber, and we all know how that arguement goes "they dont know sorcery so it doesnt matter force blast and LAWLS". Yet we dont pit him against those 2 and he has lost to people that arent those 2 because of the same overwhelming odds that are being talked about. That is my point, there will always be a top dog, as long as the person doesnt halt debate by soloing armies or navies I dont see the problem.

He doesnt Force grip "just about anybody" though. I man by this logic the person that goes to the "most powerful list" and finds the highest one up that isnt band auto wins as well dont they?

 

Throw in Darth Plageus or Exar Kun and its the same thing. Especially Kun, in 1v1 confrontation according to the lists, which every one likes pointing to rather then debating strengths and weaknesses, he would win against every one. It would be no different. He can just *force blast* and win, or just beat you with his saber for a vast majority of opponents. Only Mace and Jaina are listed as higher in saber, and we all know how that arguement goes "they dont know sorcery so it doesnt matter force blast and LAWLS". Yet we dont pit him against those 2 and he has lost to people that arent those 2 because of the same overwhelming odds that are being talked about. That is my point, there will always be a top dog, as long as the person doesnt halt debate by soloing armies or navies I dont see the problem.

I'm not sure I understand why you have a beef with Exar Kun. What is the deal?

Then tell me, how does one kill Luke Skywalker?

Not with 100 Stormtroopers, oh no, that wouldn't be enough.

Not with an AT-AT, 'cause he'd just turn around and one shot it.

Not with 2 force users, you think Revan and Surik could take GM Luke? I doubt it.

So who?

Yoda.

Sidious.

Caedus.

The only 3 who'd stand a chance, and if we allowed Luke we'd have to allow them. Yoda, the guy who casually turned ships around, Sidious, who destroyed more fleets than the damn Imperial Navy, and I don't even need to go into Caedus.

Let's not forget that luke destroyed a vessel in orbit, the size of a Star Destroyer simply with TK.

I'm not sure I understand why you have a beef with Exar Kun. What is the deal?

Without trying to sound rude, Tune has the belief that pretty much everyone in the OR era is overblown and that the NJO masters could all slaughter them in their sleep.

At least, that's the impression I get most of the time.

He doesnt Force grip "just about anybody" though. I man by this logic the person that goes to the "most powerful list" and finds the highest one up that isnt band auto wins as well dont they?

 

Throw in Darth Plageus or Exar Kun and its the same thing. Especially Kun, in 1v1 confrontation according to the lists, which every one likes pointing to rather then debating strengths and weaknesses, he would win against every one. It would be no different. He can just *force blast* and win, or just beat you with his saber for a vast majority of opponents. Only Mace and Jaina are listed as higher in saber, and we all know how that arguement goes "they dont know sorcery so it doesnt matter force blast and LAWLS". Yet we dont pit him against those 2 and he has lost to people that arent those 2 because of the same overwhelming odds that are being talked about. That is my point, there will always be a top dog, as long as the person doesnt halt debate by soloing armies or navies I dont see the problem.

For example Darth Plagueis rebreather, his inferior lightsaber skills (to his Force ability), his lack of precognitive powers etc. etc. and of course the further you go down the list the more contemporaries they have, not just Force Users of similar power, but of similar or superior dueling ability. The gaps also marginal and often superfluous in a duel.

However there comes a point in say the top 3 that in my opinion that said margin sky rockets, and the weaknesses dissappear. And on top of that, Kaggath winning powers start to become available. I'm not to well versed on Luke Skywalker but I do believe he possesses such Kaggath winning powers, as well as being unbeatable in a duel.

P.S. Force Blast is not an unbeatable power, it can be evaded, prevented, even suppressed. However I'm not going to go into that, considering Exar Kun lost in a combat engagement in this very tournament - that speaks for itself.

P.P.S. What Sel said, Kaggath winning powers right there.

Pretty much this.

 

Now post my Kaggath.

Then tell me, how does one kill Luke Skywalker?

 

Not with 100 Stormtroopers, oh no, that wouldn't be enough.

Not with an AT-AT, 'cause he'd just turn around and one shot it.

Not with 2 force users, you think Revan and Surik could take GM Luke? I doubt it.

 

So who?

 

Yoda.

Sidious.

Caedus.

 

The only 3 who'd stand a chance, and if we allowed Luke we'd have to allow them. Yoda, the guy who casually turned ships around, Sidious, who destroyed more fleets than the damn Imperial Navy, and I don't even need to go into Caedus.

 

Let's not forget that luke destroyed a vessel in orbit, the size of a Star Destroyer simply with TK.

Honestly, only Abeloth or the Ones can actually beat Luke. Maybe Sidious, but that's a stretch. Off on a tangent:

Basically, if we allow Luke, we must allow those previously mentioned, and the Kaggath devolves into "I have Sidious, bye bye fleets."

Or "I have Yoda, no armyz for u."

Or "Caedus, figure that out."

Let's not forget Galen "I destroy armies with a single Force push" Marek, or Nihilus, or Vitiate.

Simply put, there are OP characters, so they are excluded. Let one in, you may as well let them all in.

Without trying to sound rude, Tune has the belief that pretty much everyone in the OR era is overblown and that the NJO masters could all slaughter them in their sleep.

 

At least, that's the impression I get most of the time.

Some of them are, but it's not rampant. At least, not here. I do agree, though, that we should do something with NJO characters.

I was out unfortunately but I'm working on it right now.

No problem. It happens.

Honestly, only Abeloth or the Ones can actually beat Luke. Maybe Sidious, but that's a stretch. Off on a tangent:

 

Basically, if we allow Luke, we must allow those previously mentioned, and the Kaggath devolves into "I have Sidious, bye bye fleets."

 

Or "I have Yoda, no armyz for u."

 

Or "Caedus, figure that out."

 

Let's not forget Galen "I destroy armies with a single Force push" Marek, or Nihilus, or Vitiate.

 

Simply put, there are OP characters, so they are excluded. Let one in, you may as well let them all in.

Eh, Yoda/Sidious/Caedus could take him if they had a second force user like Windu, Plageuis or Kun...

Eh, Yoda/Sidious/Caedus could take him if they had a second force user like Windu, Plageuis or Kun...

Well yeah, that was 1v1 I was talking.

I'm not sure I understand why you have a beef with Exar Kun. What is the deal?

*sigh*

Now I get personally attacked for this great, wonderful. All I did was go to the list of disallowed peopleand then to the "most powerful" lists. Found the guys highest on the list that werent banned. Just so Happens Kun is the one highest on the Force uer list that is also highest on the Saber list, that was all.

GM Luke would lose 2v1 against Revan and Surik, no doubt in my mind. Most Force users can take out an AT-AT heck Luke did so in Episode 5 BEFORE his training with Yoda. Heck most spec forces members can take out 1 AT-AT with the right circumstances.

I Dont recall Luke ever fighting 100 people. That seems way over blown and BS. I also dont recall this "star destroyer take down with TK" I remember him moving a mini black hole but he didnt go around doing that all the time he didnt move it very far, and technically the Vong were some what moving it as well Luke just gave it a tiny nudge in the direction they didnt want it to go. (For the record I believe Kyp did this as well)

Welk (some one people basically have listed as a nobody) was able to power through his force push thanks to throwing his body weight into it and his strength in the force as well, of course he was off balanced by a light force pull but that was the side effect of him plowing through the push, but again Luke isnt all powerful.

My battle is against EVERYTHING that is overblown it just so happens OR is the most common with this, with the whole "sorcery" thing.

I do find it funny I am sitting here claiming "GM Luke isnt really that powerful that he cant be debated" and "well look the next highest up those lists is Exar Kun why isnt he a problem 1v1 he should be able to beat ANY ONE ELSE" Gets turned into me saying "NJO SMASH, NJO STRONGEST THERE IS"???? I just said Kun an OR character should be able to beat in single combat anyone on or off the lists.... so????

*sigh*

 

Now I get personally attacked for this great, wonderful. All I did was go to the list of disallowed peopleand then to the "most powerful" lists. Found the guys highest on the list that werent banned. Just so Happens Kun is the one highest on the Force uer list that is also highest on the Saber list, that was all.

 

 

GM Luke would lose 2v1 against Revan and Surik, no doubt in my mind. Most Force users can take out an AT-AT heck Luke did so in Episode 5 BEFORE his training with Yoda. Heck most spec forces members can take out 1 AT-AT with the right circumstances.

 

I Dont recall Luke ever fighting 100 people. That seems way over blown and BS. I also dont recall this "star destroyer take down with TK" I remember him moving a mini black hole but he didnt go around doing that all the time he didnt move it very far, and technically the Vong were some what moving it as well.

 

Welk (some one people basically have listed as a nobody) was able to power through his force push thanks to throwing his body weight into it and his strength in the force as well, of course he was off balanced by a light force pull but that was the side effect of him plowing through the push, but again Luke isnt all powerful.

 

 

My battle is against EVERYTHING that is overblown it just so happens OR is the most common with this, with the whole "sorcery" thing.

 

I do find it funny I am sitting here claiming "GM Luke isnt really that powerful that he cant be debated" and "well look the next highest up those lists is Exar Kun why isnt he a problem 1v1 he should be able to beat ANY ONE ELSE" Gets turned into me saying "NJO SMASH, NJO STRONGEST THERE IS"???? I just said Kun an OR character should be able to beat in single combat anyone on or off the lists.... so????

I don't even need to check to know that Exar Kun is not close to Luke Skywalker in anything.

Anyway, perhaps there is an argument to be made that Revan and Surik can defeat Luke. But considering they'd supposedly struggle with Horn and Saba, and considering Luke's own abilities. I personally doubt it. I am not prepared to convince myself, nor do I have the patience to convince others, that your claim is true - so it's best not to try.

I'm afraid that's where this discussion ends, I respect your viewpoint, but it's not a change I'm prepared to make and at this rate this discussion is only going to turn increasingly sour, so I suggest we put a lid on it.

The top members of the REAL Most Powerful List are all banned, funnily enough that list informed by decision.

 

I don't even need to check to know that Exar Kun is not close to Luke Skywalker in anything.

 

Anyway, perhaps there is an argument to be made that Revan and Surik can defeat Luke. But considering they supposedly struggle with Horn and Saba, and considering Luke's own abilities. I personally doubt it. I am not prepared to convince myself, nor do I have the patience to convince others, that your claim is true. So its best not to try.

 

I'm afraid that's where this discussion ends, I respect your viewpoint, but its not a change I'm prepared to make and at this rate this discussion is only going to turn increasingly sour, so I suggest we put a lid on it.

Horn and Saba can defeat Luke 2v1. But yes its clear these forums are not ready to debate a character like GM Luke with civility, so you are right. I thought maybe they were with the allowance of Revan and how that used to be, but clearly not yet you are right.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: THIS DEBATE IS CLOSED

 

Victor: The Republic Reborn

The Results:

 

Republic Reborn: 27

 

Wroshyr Alliance: 35

 

The next matchup, the Fist of the Empire vs the Confederacy of Independent Criminals,

has begun.

 

Thanks for debating! That is all.

you did it again, you need to fix the numbers it should say 25 next to the WA