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Consnstency in Ranked

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Consnstency in Ranked

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.20.2019 , 09:56 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Well yes, thatís true. I do love it when someone dots me up just before I need to use ED
It often comes down to situational awareness. If you know a Jugg hasnít used ED and their health is dropping fast, donít drop a long dot on them. Which Iíll admit, is very hard not to do sometimes.
But in ranked juggs are frequently the first target. If I'm dot spec of any class, I obviously have to have dots up constantly on the jugg to do damage. Best to just blow through ED as fast as possible, and then finish them off. If you start trying to get cute and not attack through ED, it's going to take a lot longer to kill the jugg, because not all of your teammates will turn back onto him, he may kite away, he may have other dcds coming off their cooldowns, etc. Maybe in a tightly controlled and coordinated group ranked match, or some other ideal setting, you can afford to switch off a jugg for ED's duration, but generally it's not going to be a good idea. Just let them heal to full and then just keep on dping them until they're dead.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.20.2019 , 11:38 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by KumbayaGOD View Post
if you hit during ed and the enemy is heal to full, if you keep hitting while the stack still there is that meaning it will keep healing even full health ?
not quite. ED is a stack. it has a duration for obvious balancing issues, but the reason ED is not good enough for ranked is that its stack or duration, and the stack is 15. the average pt inflicts 10 hits per second. in one second your ED is almost gone. yes you healed to full... but does it matter? 4 dps are falling on you with about 4k dps each.

an effective buff for juggs would be to cut the duration to 7 seconds and remove the stack. so it just needs to burn out. I dont know how this will balance around tank juggs but rumor has it once upon a time ED was a 15 sec duration without a stack. now thats a balancing nightmare.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
05.20.2019 , 01:03 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by nepochop View Post
Same, this is quite an issue I would say. Thats why its strange for me to watch streams of the PVPers on DM. Like they are rarely focused and use their cds slowly and people do not fully go on them and they make it look easy. I guess in my case they consider me global material so they go full on me and I tend to also panic and use 2 powerful cds at once and they simply die after using medpac. Good PVPers even save for example enet for me (there is mostly a merc in the enemy team these days) and they know when to use it.

Its the same issue with the global in 1 stun, they stun you and you know that if you do not break you will die, so you use cc breaker and then they net you after cds run out so you can PW, vanish or camo.
The streamers are considered top players and If you played some ranked, you already know that those people are rarely focused first.... I mean I was talking to a top 3 mara and was talking to him about my ranked experience and he basically said that " none of that happened to me " and I was like....

So In a way what you say is true. Those players are mostly stunned... and the more no name players get focused first. That's why on the stream it seems like they are playing with one hand and drinking beer with the other.

Just today I had a game where as a carnage mara I was of course the "outsider" that was targeted first and man I was gutted and stunned, netted to death.. We managed to win r2 but lost in the end because in R3 I did mostly nothing... I vanished like 4,5 times to heal up and was melting like butter as soon as I rejoined.

I always wondered how some people get away with playing these " not so viable" specs... Probably they aren't focused.

Anyway sorry for rambling... I must learn to enjoy the games and worry less about elos and leaderboards. I noticed that those things tend to put extra pressure on me and can hurt performance.

PS: Jugg DPS can be good in SR, but the player must be very very skilled... I had a jugg dps on my team with 230 gear and no stim.. and I was 100% sure that it's lost. He did 6k dps.. and kited like a pro.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.20.2019 , 06:00 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Well yes, thatís true. I do love it when someone dots me up just before I need to use ED
It often comes down to situational awareness. If you know a Jugg hasnít used ED and their health is dropping fast, donít drop a long dot on them. Which Iíll admit, is very hard not to do sometimes.
or...you're a jugg. hit him. let him pop ed. it won't help.
Krack

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.20.2019 , 09:22 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
But in ranked juggs are frequently the first target. If I'm dot spec of any class, I obviously have to have dots up constantly on the jugg to do damage. Best to just blow through ED as fast as possible, and then finish them off. If you start trying to get cute and not attack through ED, it's going to take a lot longer to kill the jugg, because not all of your teammates will turn back onto him, he may kite away, he may have other dcds coming off their cooldowns, etc. Maybe in a tightly controlled and coordinated group ranked match, or some other ideal setting, you can afford to switch off a jugg for ED's duration, but generally it's not going to be a good idea. Just let them heal to full and then just keep on dping them until they're dead.
Yeah, in ranked itís better to just burn the Jugg if everyone is focusing them. If they arenít though, well Iím not sure whatís the best strat. I know we are talking ranked in the thread, but Iíll just quickly add this for any reg players reading. Donít dot low health juggs if you can help it unless you know theyíve already used ED. All you do is give them a second life

bUrself_'s Avatar


bUrself_
05.21.2019 , 09:27 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
The streamers are considered top players and If you played some ranked, you already know that those people are rarely focused first.... I mean I was talking to a top 3 mara and was talking to him about my ranked experience and he basically said that " none of that happened to me " and I was like....

So In a way what you say is true. Those players are mostly stunned... and the more no name players get focused first. That's why on the stream it seems like they are playing with one hand and drinking beer with the other.

Just today I had a game where as a carnage mara I was of course the "outsider" that was targeted first and man I was gutted and stunned, netted to death.. We managed to win r2 but lost in the end because in R3 I did mostly nothing... I vanished like 4,5 times to heal up and was melting like butter as soon as I rejoined.

I always wondered how some people get away with playing these " not so viable" specs... Probably they aren't focused.
for the most part players who are not tunneled, provided they don't exclusively queue on anti tunnel classes out of fear anyway (which some people absolutely do), are not tunneled because they have earned a reputation for reacting to tunnel well. not because they've got some unearned "good player" badge and get ignored forever as a result

the best players are much, much better than average at dealing with tunnel. whether that be dying slower than most players might, how much they're able to contribute offensively despite being focused, or some combination of both.

regular arena players have a pretty good idea how fast a particular class on the other team "should" die and react accordingly to players who are disproportionately annoying to kill. if you took a top player and put them on an anonymous sorc dps it would not take the queue long to notice they're not another random sorc who is an easy kill. they'd be focused much less as games go by. I can say from experience that you may get whispers asking "who you are" because people suspect or can tell that whoever is playing that character is "someone"

there's certainly some name recognition rent out there causing some people to be over or under focused relative to their skill level but it is absolutely not just a popularity contest. heavily ignored players have usually earned it to one degree or another

an addendum: "not tunneled" or "ignored" in this context are shorthand for "focused less relative to the spec they are playing." the best player in swtor will get more focus on pt dps than a decent merc because that's just how the class balance is right now

bUrself_'s Avatar


bUrself_
05.21.2019 , 09:41 AM | #27
also for a separate post I would like to note that when I actually played regularly on my main account before I sold it I lost MANY rounds as a result of someone on my team mistakenly being certain that a player on the other team was a free kill. probably because they had a bad round or two once, or an impossible situation that this guy on my team overinterpretted

we take his word for it, focus this guy, he does satisfactory and we get stomped at least partially as a result of the bad interpretation of how focusable that target was. people do not like losing rounds because of this and adjust pretty quickly.

getting focused is an opportunity. it's an opportunity to handle the focus well, thus contributing to round wins, which then turns into being focused less accordingly

lastly, being ignored is not a one way ticket to success. many players who sit on anti focus classes still flounder because they spend far too much of that time not being focused doing too little damage, attacking the wrong targets, not peeling, not chasing runners, stunning or ccing badly or not at all, and so on. just because you're not dying first doesn't mean you're pulling your weight *at all*

many of the players who you only see on classes like operative or merc fall into this category

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.21.2019 , 09:54 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by bUrself_ View Post
for the most part players who are not tunneled, provided they don't exclusively queue on anti tunnel classes out of fear anyway (which some people absolutely do), are not tunneled because they have earned a reputation for reacting to tunnel well. not because they've got some unearned "good player" badge and get ignored forever as a result

the best players are much, much better than average at dealing with tunnel. whether that be dying slower than most players might, how much they're able to contribute offensively despite being focused, or some combination of both.

regular arena players have a pretty good idea how fast a particular class on the other team "should" die and react accordingly to players who are disproportionately annoying to kill. if you took a top player and put them on an anonymous sorc dps it would not take the queue long to notice they're not another random sorc who is an easy kill. they'd be focused much less as games go by. I can say from experience that you may get whispers asking "who you are" because people suspect or can tell that whoever is playing that character is "someone"

there's certainly some name recognition rent out there causing some people to be over or under focused relative to their skill level but it is absolutely not just a popularity contest. heavily ignored players have usually earned it to one degree or another

an addendum: "not tunneled" or "ignored" in this context are shorthand for "focused less relative to the spec they are playing." the best player in swtor will get more focus on pt dps than a decent merc because that's just how the class balance is right now
Just want to point out that this whole post is accurate. One thing to emphasize is that to me the best players are able to not only survive for a while under pressure, but can also effectively do damage. Sometimes I see mercs that take 500k before they die, but they've only done 80k damage themselves. They were just running around healing and using dcds. Sure, that's better than getting globaled, but I'd rather have the merc that only took 400k but also did 400k damage before they died. Granted, doing that on a merc is much easier than doing that on other classes, but the principle still applies. For example, there are a lot of dps sorcs that queue that can survive for ages, but they never attack the correct targets and do pitiful damage overall. Their ratings reflect that bad style of play.

Quote: Originally Posted by bUrself_ View Post
also for a separate post I would like to note that when I actually played regularly on my main account before I sold it I lost MANY rounds as a result of someone on my team mistakenly being certain that a player on the other team was a free kill. probably because they had a bad round or two once, or an impossible situation that this guy on my team overinterpretted

we take his word for it, focus this guy, he does satisfactory and we get stomped at least partially as a result of the bad interpretation of how focusable that target was. people do not like losing rounds because of this and adjust pretty quickly.

getting focused is an opportunity. it's an opportunity to handle the focus well, thus contributing to round wins, which then turns into being focused less accordingly
I also agree with this. Picking focus targets properly is crucial to success in solo ranked. The more information you have at your disposal, the better your decisions will be.

Also, about getting focused being an opportunity, that is also true. I have won many games because the other team decided to focus me when I know for a fact that if they had focused some of my bad teammates, they probably would have easily won. Conversely, I've won games because they focused someone else when they should have been focusing me.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.21.2019 , 09:56 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by bUrself_ View Post
lastly, being ignored is not a one way ticket to success. many players who sit on anti focus classes still flounder because they spend far too much of that time not being focused doing too little damage, attacking the wrong targets, not peeling, not chasing runners, stunning or ccing badly or not at all, and so on. just because you're not dying first doesn't mean you're pulling your weight *at all*

many of the players who you only see on classes like operative or merc fall into this category
Hey, you edited your post while I was writing mine saying almost the same thing that I said. No count.

bUrself_'s Avatar


bUrself_
05.21.2019 , 10:00 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
I have won many games because the other team decided to focus me when I know for a fact that if they had focused some of my bad teammates, they probably would have easily won.
exactly, this is a key point to understand on this topic

whenever it comes up there is a sense from some players that if you're the chosen one to be focused then you are hosed and cannot contribute to wins. I understand this feeling but it's not accurate.

the best way to get over this sensation, I suspect, is to have some of those rounds where you're getting hard zerged but do a good job just running the **** away to such a degree that it's very obvious how you gifted your team a win without doing much aside from dying slowly