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Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
05.19.2019 , 03:55 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Fellow-Canadian View Post
Long time PvP scoundrel checking in here. Is the off heals too op? I would say for scrapper spec the off heals is right where it should be. The DPS falls off a cliff when you try to be a healer.

Ruffian spec though is seriously good at what it does. It will always have dots rolling with the added benefit of even stronger heals. I have on many occasions circumvented the need for healers and still put out amazing DPS. It feels too strong. I'd trade some healing for improvements with the slow ramp up time.

Exhibit A - a video I made where I kept up damage with everybody else but came close to matching the opposing healer.

It's one gate check is that it's a very complex dance of keeping buffed dots+hots rolling, dealing damage and surviving. It's not easy to do but it's a fun as hell style to play.
Thanks for posting that vid, it clearly demonstrates the imbalance of ruffian/lethality. Ur team is basically 1 tank 3 dps 1 healer v 3 dps 1 healer.

Things need to change.

Off topic: y do all the pvpers have to zig zag left n right. It is so annoying to see/watch, and i find it doing absolutely nothing.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.19.2019 , 04:17 PM | #72
the answer to your question is: LOS

you cant Line Of Sight in pve because AI mechanics allow them to sight you 24/7 meaning only casts can be effectively LOSd in pve. In pvp however simplely zigzaging left and right is enough to LOS 90% of this games population. And since it has no real downside vs the 10% it doesnt on work you may as well build a habit of it. This is also an answer to the long standing question from pvers and pvpers both "why do pvers stand in place when fighting" or "why do pvpers move while fighting"

also..... dont mess with lethality. just trust when I say this, lethality is global bait. if they are not top 3 level operative 9/10 you can go lethality and blow him up. there isnt a top ranked player in this game you could convince that lethality is overperforming in arena pvp. their dps is all fluff, if their getting burst off (corrsive assault) then they arent offhling everyone.

sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.19.2019 , 05:44 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Benirons View Post
Off topic: y do all the pvpers have to zig zag left n right. It is so annoying to see/watch, and i find it doing absolutely nothing.
They're trying to cause desync. Depending on your connection, they would basically disappear/be un-targetable for several seconds.
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Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.19.2019 , 08:24 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
They're trying to cause desync. Depending on your connection, they would basically disappear/be un-targetable for several seconds.
As tried and true constant mover/zig zagger/hopper in pvp I can 100% confirm I have never once intentionly attempted to cause desync by taking the long way to my dinner.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.19.2019 , 08:45 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
also..... dont mess with lethality. just trust when I say this, lethality is global bait. if they are not top 3 level operative 9/10 you can go lethality and blow him up. there isnt a top ranked player in this game you could convince that lethality is overperforming in arena pvp. their dps is all fluff, if their getting burst off (corrsive assault) then they arent offhling everyone.
I agree. That's the thing that people seem to get confused about when it comes to offhealing in pvp. Yes, it can be very effective in certain situations (such as 2v1s), but mostly it's quite an inefficient way to spend your time. It takes a lot of resources, and you cannot effectively dps while you're doing it. Sure, ops can throw out hots, but that's not going to do anything for someone actually getting focused, and now one of your dps isn't doing their job.

Frankly, I think offguarding is a much more powerful tool than offhealing, but it's really only practical for dps sins to use.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.19.2019 , 09:06 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
I agree. That's the thing that people seem to get confused about when it comes to offhealing in pvp. Yes, it can be very effective in certain situations (such as 2v1s), but mostly it's quite an inefficient way to spend your time. It takes a lot of resources, and you cannot effectively dps while you're doing it. Sure, ops can throw out hots, but that's not going to do anything for someone actually getting focused, and now one of your dps isn't doing their job.

Frankly, I think offguarding is a much more powerful tool than offhealing, but it's really only practical for dps sins to use.
if you pull an arena with heals but no tanks, then the off tank in any AC is, imo, broken.
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sdom's Avatar


sdom
05.21.2019 , 11:48 AM | #77
When there are kolto probes on a DPS op. it is referred to as HoT - healing over time.
Hit them with DoT to weaken its effect, and prevent them from stealthing without spending for it.
Most specs have at least 1 DoT attack.

Ops play chess.
Aye good ops can be lethal but so can good players on any class.
Bad ops are like 6 - 10 hit kills.
Its just people who know the class.

We should also nerf sin tanks for being too good at being tanks.
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QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
06.16.2019 , 10:54 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
bangs head against wall*

trixxie... do you know why "nerf ops" is a swtor meme? its because bioware refuses to nerf their dcds. instead they nerf dps. why do they do this and what effect does it have on pvp? they do this because the deciding factor in pve is dps, but the deciding factor in pvp is dcds. this is why "nerf ops" is a comic meme in swtor, the devs hae 0 clue how or even why.

what this guy is suggesting is give ops viable dps and nerf their cds. this is exactly what needs to happen because pve operatives are suffering right now because of low dps and pvp operatives are on top of the food chain because of their dcds. bioware is just too afraid to nerf dcds because thats coming to close to the sun of not holding pvers hands.
"Nerf ops" is a meme because in basically every single class balance patch from 1.2 until like, probably 4.0, DPS operatives were nerfed substantially in some way. It's a meme because mediocre players that don't bother trying to understand the class call for nerfs without having the experience of playing one. It became a meme to say "nerf ops" to every problem in PVP because that's what Bioware did. There's a yellow post from early on in the game that says something like, "We've nerfed operatives because groups of stunlocking operatives were ruining the experience for other players".
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DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
06.17.2019 , 12:40 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by QuiveringPotato View Post
"Nerf ops" is a meme because in basically every single class balance patch from 1.2 until like, probably 4.0, DPS operatives were nerfed substantially in some way. It's a meme because mediocre players that don't bother trying to understand the class call for nerfs without having the experience of playing one. It became a meme to say "nerf ops" to every problem in PVP because that's what Bioware did. There's a yellow post from early on in the game that says something like, "We've nerfed operatives because groups of stunlocking operatives were ruining the experience for other players".
The nerf.... comes usually from the PVP community and especially the ranked community because in arenas having so much self heals can make you survive way longer than any other class in this game...

Mercs have the same problem too.

Regarding OPS< they can be annoying, but leave them as they are. I don't think this combat team can do any proper changes to them anyway and considering that SWTOR is a single player game with multiplayer elements designed for mostly casuals, I think there is really zero point in this classes vs classes argument...

Your class was designed to fight mobs in PVE, period...

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
06.17.2019 , 04:14 AM | #80
The simple fact that no-one denies they are the absolute undisputed kings of 1v1 is proof enough that they need to be nerfed. Maybe nerfed isn't the right word, levelled out?

True 1v1 isn't a game format beyond 1v1 encounters in WZ and duels outside of WZ, but its still a very relevant part of play. Anyone who has ever guarded a node (and enjoys doing so) cares about 1v1 class balance. The fact is that Scoundrels / Operatives are so good at 1v1 that they can reliably go 1v2, 1v3 etc on a common basis. You can say all day long that 3 DPS who can't kill an Operative are bad players until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that no other class can do this against those 3 bad players. You will die eventually. (Please don't tell me about that occasion you won a 1v3 with your Sentinel / Jugg / sin whatever, the fact is Operatives do it all the time).

Can you imagine the outrage that would occur if Shadows were suddenly given 3 self heals, 2x30m abilities, increased armour rating, lowered their force speed to 10s cooldown and gave them immunity while force speed is active? On top of keeping their utility self heal that heals in stealth? That is basically what Scondrels / Operatives are now.

There is a reason good Operatives don't need to stealth out to win 1v1 duels, where as sins / Shadows do - again, please don't tell me about that one time you won a duel with as shadow and didn't stealth) fact is shadows stealth out of fights far more than Scoundrels / Operatives do.

I'm all for altering their abilities being the way forward. Remove Kolto probes, increase cooldown times of their DCDs, something like this. It would still be possible to retain their top tier 1v1 status, but they wouldn't be unbeatable anymore.