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Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
05.14.2019 , 11:53 AM | #21
At some point, PvPers really need to learn to play, instead of coming to the forums every time they can't beat a class, or some player or another is better at it than they are looking for nerfs. Did ya'll know that at one point in time, Orbital Strike was actually an effective skill in both PvE and PvP? Now some will come back with "but they didn't nerf it for PvP", to which I can only ask "Why wasn't the Heroic Moment version nerfed as well then"? Here's the answer: You can't use comps in WZs. So they didn't nerf it where it can only be used in PvE, but did where it can be used in PvP, seems like an overt PvP nerf to me.

"But sorc bubbles providing a HoT is OP, I can't kill stuff when they do that" led to a direct nerf to the bubble. Again, because PvPers don't seem to get what "focus fire" means, PvE got nerfed to accommodate them. The list goes on from there, and here we are, yet again, looking to nerf something "because PvP". Before long, ya'll are gonna be down to just using basic attacks, with no heals, and maybe fighting unarmed, all because some people just don't understand what team work means.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Sebastianne's Avatar


Sebastianne
05.14.2019 , 12:38 PM | #22
Hello new face palm thread. It's not OP you need to consider burst vs hot for one. Hots are slow but they're always going to be more rewarding as they are slower. Nontheless, a hot will literally do nothing to save someone if there is enough burst/focus fire on a person to take them down. No dps operative is going to keep anyone alive indefinitely, especially not themselves. I can be far more effective offhealing on a merc just because it's nice and bursty (if they take the cleanse reduction cooldown they can also cleanse their friends faster), and sorcs can rescue people to give them a bunch of mitigation (on a utility). Take all of this into account, it's hardly an overpowered issue. Spend some time learning about the class and how to beat it effectively instead of crying about it on the forums. That said yes offheals can be quite frustrating in arenas for sure. Team work, instead of mindless tunneling, is going to triumph as it rightfully should.
Sebastianna Medicine Operative Satele Shan
<Cucumbers Against Cats> Guildmaster

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.14.2019 , 01:35 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
...and yet, 90% of all PvE nerfs to accommodate PvP are, literally, standing in stupid... Nice try? Go back to your organized duels, and then run back looking for more nerfs, mmkay?
lul, standing in stupid in pvp isnt scripted. literaly an op could materialize next you you and drop a toxic haze and a corrasive dart and you are all dotted

wanted to add a tidbit here.

in gaming there is something called "protecting the player from themselves" if you want to blame pvp for every bad thing, nerf, buff, exploit, fine. we all need a shadow to point our sword at. just remember that a game without challenge, a game without something to overcome is often not worth anything. imagine if in pve you never died, every time you came close you healed to full? sounds magical huh? cept... suddenly you realise nothing has ever killed you, everything is safe, you will never die, you will always win and mary poppins is your nanny.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.14.2019 , 02:02 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
come on, you know better than that. it is much harder to kill an operative in an arena than a merc. and in a 1v1 an op will kill a merc if they are equal skill.
Obviously an op will win any 1v1, but mercs' dcds and superior dps output make them far better then ops, at least on average. And yes, ops can survive longer, but that requires them to kite, offheal, stealth out, etc. Mercs can just facetank ridiculous amounts of damage while still dpsing. It's possible that the very best ops are better than the very best mercs, but ops are much harder to play properly. Arsenal mercs are brain dead easy to play by contrast. You will never see a bad player do well on an op in ranked pvp, but there are tons (like half the queue) of bad players that play merc and can do okay just because mercs are OP. In other words, I don't believe ops need a nerf just because a literal handful of good op players do really well with them. Mercs absolutely need to be nerfed because their ease of play makes them overpowered even in incompetent hands.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
05.14.2019 , 02:04 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
lul, standing in stupid in pvp isnt scripted. literaly an op could materialize next you you and drop a toxic haze and a corrasive dart and you are all dotted

wanted to add a tidbit here.

in gaming there is something called "protecting the player from themselves" if you want to blame pvp for every bad thing, nerf, buff, exploit, fine. we all need a shadow to point our sword at. just remember that a game without challenge, a game without something to overcome is often not worth anything. imagine if in pve you never died, every time you came close you healed to full? sounds magical huh? cept... suddenly you realise nothing has ever killed you, everything is safe, you will never die, you will always win and mary poppins is your nanny.
I literally gave an example that shows that blaming nerfs to PvE on PvP is perfectly justified. Orbital Strike was my example. Go ahead, demonstrate how leaving the Heroic Moment version alone doesn't show it's a PvP based nerf.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.14.2019 , 02:11 PM | #26
Pretty sure ops losing Orbital Strike is from ability pruning, and part of the process of creating a clear separation between sniper and operative. The devs later renamed several shared abilities and changed the names of the shared specs as well (virulence versus lethality). Didn't ops also have interrogation probe way back when? memory fuzzy
-Beruhl
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.

xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
05.14.2019 , 02:18 PM | #27
The classic EA response will happen: overnerf it into an instantly useless class.
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In English, a leading X on a word is pronounced like a Z. (zorDEVoro).

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
05.14.2019 , 03:34 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Pretty sure ops losing Orbital Strike is from ability pruning, and part of the process of creating a clear separation between sniper and operative. The devs later renamed several shared abilities and changed the names of the shared specs as well (virulence versus lethality). Didn't ops also have interrogation probe way back when? memory fuzzy
Except it isn't pruned. Snipers still have it, I didn't check on my Op, but I do know it's still in the Heroic Moment skills, which, oddly enough, can't be used in anything structured PvP wise. The Heroic Moment version is untouched by the nerf. Odd that, eh?
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.14.2019 , 03:45 PM | #29
almost as odd as the fact that a) heoric moment works in OWPVP, b) several abilitys on heroic moment are exclusive to a "spec" like jedi shadow debris cast vs sorc force lightning. its not part of heroic moment because its a pvp nerf its part of the heroic moment because the heroic moments are decided by an avaible adv class. for ex: orbital strike sniper, nut kick smuggler. jedi knight force sweep, warrior force choke, jedi shadow debris, inqusitor force lightning. its almost like they chose that ailitys at random as long as they were unique to the faction class. (yeh yeh, flame thrower pt and sticky bomb mando, are you happy ;p)

post edit: actually the flamethrower pt is the answer to your question.. funny I added that afterthought. flame thrower no longer exists in swtor. niether does smuggler/operative orbital strike. also casading debris on shdow is unique to shadow, sage doesnt get it. same with imp force lightning. but both knight get sweep, and both warriors get choke. so using orbital strike in heroic moment to prove anything is a moot point.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.14.2019 , 03:52 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Except it isn't pruned. Snipers still have it, I didn't check on my Op, but I do know it's still in the Heroic Moment skills, which, oddly enough, can't be used in anything structured PvP wise. The Heroic Moment version is untouched by the nerf. Odd that, eh?
I'm saying it was pruned from operatives. Though I cannot read the devs minds, a lot of abilities were pruned and changed over the years.

A lot of the things you think are pvp nerfs are just as much PVE Operations nerfs. Why do you think Shadows/Sins lost phase walk? Because Shadow/Sin tanks could cheese so many operations mechanics with Phasewalk+stealth+shroud.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
post edit: actually the flamethrower pt is the answer to your question.. funny I added that afterthought. flame thrower no longer exists in swtor.
I used to have Flamethrower as my Heroic Moment PT/VG ability. I should look it up and see if it still exists as the old version. Now i'm curious
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.