Remember how SWTOR used to be when you hit max level? I'm talking prior to Galactic Command. It was very staightforward. You did flashpoints or PvP to earn whatever the currency was, then you'd go to a vendor to upgrade your gear. For me, that was PvP since I wasn't a raider. I could get decent gear by doing random warzones with PUGs. I lost most of the time, but I'd still earn whatever the currency was back then, and get gear.

This new system is a marginal improvement over Galactic Command, but I have found my desire to log in is less and less. Here's why: I don't know what to do.

I log in, sit in my stronghold or on my ship for several minutes trying to figure this out. I check out what the bonus activity for the day is, and then see if it's worth doing. In most cases, I just go to Onderon and do dailies and the weekly, then log out. The problem is you can do...well...anything you want to earn Renown and tech fragments. And then you get new upgrades automatically. Until you get to like ilvl 300, then you go to the SoW vendor and buy random mods for gear shells which you can buy from class vendors. That sounds GREAT on paper, but in reality it just leaves me without direction or a tangible goal to work towards. This is because the whole system is overwhelmingly RNG.

Contrast that with a game like FFXIV, which uses a traditional method of gearing. You have different tomestones, their currency. The latest tomestone for the patch cycle can be used to purchase the latest non-raid gear. Each day you have bonus roulettes, which are random dungeons you can run to earn X amount of tomestones. Once you get enough tomestones for a piece of gear you want, you simply go to the vendor and buy whichever piece you need. Done. It's almost exactly like SWTOR used to be. WoW as well back in the day.

And I know some of you are probably going to chime in and say, "I hate the way FFXIV and WoW do it!" That's fine. But it provides direction and a direct path to follow to get geared.

Here's it just kind of like...do whatever to get random upgrades, and if you don't get the piece you want, buy an empty shell from a vendor that you'll still need 306 mods to fill, which are, by the way, all random drops. It's so...directionless. I'd love a system like the old one where you just buy the gear you need.

On the plus side, you don't really need gear in this game unless you're going to be doing really difficult content, but still. MMOs are about progression and the progression side of this game is lacking.

If I'm wrong on this because I'm missing something, please correct me.

I log in, sit in my stronghold or on my ship for several minutes trying to figure this out. I check out what the bonus activity for the day is, and then see if it's worth doing. In most cases, I just go to Onderon and do dailies and the weekly, then log out.

As of today I have 176 toons across 5 accounts, 4 guilds to run as GL, we just had a major guild member recognition ceremony today where I gave out over 100 million credits, decos, and life memberships to highly contributing members, and I STILL haven't created that body-type 4 male twi'lek jedi-looking light-side imperial agent that I meant to.

No shortage of things to do.

I share the loathing of RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG (RNG in the items you recieve, RNG in mods/enh, then RNG in amplifiers). Likewise, I also prefer clearcut goals, however time consuming. i like 5.x gearing post-vendor addition and pre-252/8

I also have issues finding a reason to log in. Let's do the same ops we've been doing for years, which couldn't be scaled properly, yet are best done with current endgame gear despite not being max level! Oh, you wanted easily puggable max level content? Sucks to be you! either get good and do harder stuff, or deal with doing the same thing you have been for years, just now it's not even scaled to your level any more!

I've loathed this gearing system since the PTS. I also loathed the last gearing system. The system we had in the 4.x era was perfect, but the devs thought it was "too complicated" so they have made 2 gearing systems over 5.x and 6.x that are 10x more complicated lmao.

FFXIV gearing progression is definitely perfect. WoW's gearing system is....not great right now and the community mostly hates it and surprise its earily similar to swtors because the swtor devs are notorious for looking at what WoW does and copying it with their own spin. They should copy FFXIV instead. The only thing that keeps me from playing FFXIV a lot honestly is the level sync. I hate doing any of the dungeon roulettes because you get low level dungeons and the level sync takes away half your abilities and FFXIV combat at low levels is......not great.

MMOs are about progression

[citation needed]

Really. Where is this laid down as law? Is Guild Wars 2 an MMORPG?

If it isn't, please explain why not.

If it is, please explain how progression is an inherent part of MMORPGs, when the concept is totally alien to GW2. The strongest new gear today is the same strength as the strongest new gear was when they released the first pieces of Ascended-tier gear in 2012.

[citation needed]

 

Really. Where is this laid down as law? Is Guild Wars 2 an MMORPG?

 

If it isn't, please explain why not.

 

If it is, please explain how progression is an inherent part of MMORPGs, when the concept is totally alien to GW2. The strongest new gear today is the same strength as the strongest new gear was when they released the first pieces of Ascended-tier gear in 2012.

Progression has been an inherent core of MMO's since basically Ultima Online / EverQuest which are the two games that launched MMO's into popularity in the late 90's / early 2000's. Leveling up is progression, gearing up is progression and the whole point of end game progression is to maintain player retention after they reach level cap. Without progression there'd be zero point of an MMO. No one would stick around after reaching level cap because they'd have nothing to do.

GW2 uses horizontal gear progression from what I remember which is similar to old school FFXI. Its still progression though. Also, GW2 has elite specilizations after reaching cap, the masteries, WvW ranks etc.....Progression doesn't have to be gear related, but GW2 isn't exactly some special game that has zero end game progression.

Progression has been an inherent core of MMO's since basically Ultima Online / EverQuest which are the two games that launched MMO's into popularity in the late 90's / early 2000's. Leveling up is progression, gearing up is progression and the whole point of end game progression is to maintain player retention after they reach level cap. Without progression there'd be zero point of an MMO. No one would stick around after reaching level cap because they'd have nothing to do.

 

GW2 uses horizontal gear progression from what I remember which is similar to old school FFXI. Its still progression though. Also, GW2 has elite specilizations after reaching cap, the masteries, WvW ranks etc.....Progression doesn't have to be gear related, but GW2 isn't exactly some special game that has zero end game progression.

OK, fair point, although the term "progression" seems to be mostly associated with "gear and level" progression, which is why I asked the question.

Yeah... THIS is largely why SWTOR actually has lots of content all of which is abandoned. No clear direction, no tiering, do whatever... And get whatever.

FFXIV gearing system is as it should be in an MMO but there's a reason SWTOR devs are unable to adapt it. Compare how much time does a patch cycle take in FFXIV and how much does it take (and how predictable that is) in SWTOR.

With that said, in FFXIV you do feel like a hamster in a wheel after a few years and it lacks Star Wars flavor (which is why I personally came back) but gods I wish SWTOR had FFXIV-like production treatment and level of engagement with the community.

 

 

 

 

I've loathed this gearing system since the PTS. I also loathed the last gearing system. The system we had in the 4.x era was perfect, but the devs thought it was "too complicated" so they have made 2 gearing systems over 5.x and 6.x that are 10x more complicated lmao.

 

FFXIV gearing progression is definitely perfect. WoW's gearing system is....not great right now and the community mostly hates it and surprise its earily similar to swtors because the swtor devs are notorious for looking at what WoW does and copying it with their own spin. They should copy FFXIV instead. The only thing that keeps me from playing FFXIV a lot honestly is the level sync. I hate doing any of the dungeon roulettes because you get low level dungeons and the level sync takes away half your abilities and FFXIV combat at low levels is......not great.

I'm sorry, but the gearing system in 4.x was far from good. That entire gearing system was based on whatever Highlighted HM Op was for a week. So for many players they just waited for EV or KP to be the highlighted HM and spam those 2 for the 224 gear. That expansion had the absolute WORST gearing system.

I'm sorry, but the gearing system in 4.x was far from good. That entire gearing system was based on whatever Highlighted HM Op was for a week. So for many players they just waited for EV or KP to be the highlighted HM and spam those 2 for the 224 gear. That expansion had the absolute WORST gearing system.

For me personally, 4.0 was the beginning of the long decline of SWTOR. I still bitterly resent that they made all the companions blandly generic.

I'll be honest, I'll never understand why so many MMOs move away from:

- Currency to buy specific pieces of gear

- Gear tokens

- Gear drops that are specific and based on flashpoint/boss/difficulty

I'm sorry, but the gearing system in 4.x was far from good. That entire gearing system was based on whatever Highlighted HM Op was for a week. So for many players they just waited for EV or KP to be the highlighted HM and spam those 2 for the 224 gear. That expansion had the absolute WORST gearing system.

The only thing that was off about the 4.0 gearing system was the HM of the week providing better gear than NiM.

To say such a flaw makes it the worst gearing system ever is, well I don't even know what to call such silliness or idiocy.

Not to mention if you were bothered by people getting top gear doing the HM of the week, players getting the best gear in 5.0 by winning the RNG box lottery after grinding to 300 farming pigs in KP, or getting the best gear in 6.0 by spamming HS over and over must really set you off.

So how is 4.0 worse than what we have today?

Remember how SWTOR used to be when you hit max level? I'm talking prior to Galactic Command. It was very staightforward. You did flashpoints or PvP to earn whatever the currency was, then you'd go to a vendor to upgrade your gear. For me, that was PvP since I wasn't a raider. I could get decent gear by doing random warzones with PUGs. I lost most of the time, but I'd still earn whatever the currency was back then, and get gear.

 

This new system is a marginal improvement over Galactic Command, but I have found my desire to log in is less and less. Here's why: I don't know what to do.

 

I log in, sit in my stronghold or on my ship for several minutes trying to figure this out. I check out what the bonus activity for the day is, and then see if it's worth doing. In most cases, I just go to Onderon and do dailies and the weekly, then log out. The problem is you can do...well...anything you want to earn Renown and tech fragments. And then you get new upgrades automatically. Until you get to like ilvl 300, then you go to the SoW vendor and buy random mods for gear shells which you can buy from class vendors. That sounds GREAT on paper, but in reality it just leaves me without direction or a tangible goal to work towards. This is because the whole system is overwhelmingly RNG.

 

Contrast that with a game like FFXIV, which uses a traditional method of gearing. You have different tomestones, their currency. The latest tomestone for the patch cycle can be used to purchase the latest non-raid gear. Each day you have bonus roulettes, which are random dungeons you can run to earn X amount of tomestones. Once you get enough tomestones for a piece of gear you want, you simply go to the vendor and buy whichever piece you need. Done. It's almost exactly like SWTOR used to be. WoW as well back in the day.

 

And I know some of you are probably going to chime in and say, "I hate the way FFXIV and WoW do it!" That's fine. But it provides direction and a direct path to follow to get geared.

 

Here's it just kind of like...do whatever to get random upgrades, and if you don't get the piece you want, buy an empty shell from a vendor that you'll still need 306 mods to fill, which are, by the way, all random drops. It's so...directionless. I'd love a system like the old one where you just buy the gear you need.

 

On the plus side, you don't really need gear in this game unless you're going to be doing really difficult content, but still. MMOs are about progression and the progression side of this game is lacking.

 

If I'm wrong on this because I'm missing something, please correct me.

Yea I remember these good old times I wait for 6ish years know that swtor will get back on track :s The Endgame is meaningless for me. There is no Progress-Curve, nothing for what I want to grind for. Mount Farming is nearly not existent because: All good looking Mounts are in the Money Shop.

Transmogg Gear farming in old Raids or FPs etc? Some are there but all good looking stuff is in the Money Shop²....

SWTOR can and should be beside World of Warcraft and The Elder Scrolls Online and has the Name, The License and the Potential to be a Gold-Mine for Bioware/EA - IF they would get more Menpower into this Game instead of run it on low flame since the F2P Change.... Its so sad:mad:

As I said in a other Post already, SWTOR would run the best if they would make propper Content instead of 1-2 Raids in a Year and beside that Story, Story, Story, Story, Story and so on. The Story Part is good, don't get me wrong, but beside that there is nearly to nothing why I should be in this Game. Give me Propper Progress, Mounts I can farm in Raids and older Raids like in WoW, Gear for the Look like in WoW, propper Space Battles with my Starship (not this Joke of PvP Starfighter - I mean a propper one in Space with a good feeling, like War Thunder has with the Controls), Farm new Ships, give us PLEASE finaly Interface-Addons Support (sry but the default UI is horrible...) etc. Overall a good STAR WARS-MMO:( Im a founder and I lost over years the point of hope for this Game to 99%

I'm sorry, but the gearing system in 4.x was far from good. That entire gearing system was based on whatever Highlighted HM Op was for a week. So for many players they just waited for EV or KP to be the highlighted HM and spam those 2 for the 224 gear. That expansion had the absolute WORST gearing system.

I never said 4.x was perfect. Token systems before it were far far better, but I'd take 4.x over the last two gearing systems, especially as a pvper 4.x brought in the best design for pvp gearing and I'd do anything to get that back.

yeah you know i dont even know why im logging in on my lvl 75 char aside from chatting with guild

i just dont feel motivated to do ops or flashpoints for gear since its all the same

i miss the token/currency gearing system

most of the current setbonus suck with only 1 viable option for marauder dps

even getting the setbonus feels like a massive grind 1mil creds and 3k tech per piece is just to much honestly

Contrast that with a game like SWTOR, which uses a traditional method of gearing. You have Tech Fragments, their currency. The latest Tech Fragments for the patch cycle can be used to purchase the latest end game gear. Each day you have bonus activites, which you can run to earn extra credit, but the random dungeons or flashpoints are always available, every day, all the time, without any lockouts. Once you get enough tech fragments for a piece of gear you want, you simply go to the vendor and buy whichever piece you need. Done. It's almost exactly like FFIV is currently.

 

Here's it just kind of like...you can do certain activities which have a higher likelihood of dropping the gear you need, but if you are unlucky, you can buy the vast majority of pieces you need with Tech Fragments. I'd love this system just like the old one where you just buy the gear you need if you don't earn it doing activities you enjoy. In addition, its even better because every boss drop has personal loot for each player, so no one walks away from an encounter with nothing to show for it..

 

If I'm wrong on this because I'm missing something, please correct me.

Corrected as requested.

I am fine with the system the way it is.

You get tech fragments by playing all aspects of the game, which is better than tokens from only flashpoints and ops. I remember running the same 5 flashpoints over and over when 55 was the max level, that was so boring.

I guess the RNG for certain pieces is kinda lame, if you want specific ear pieces or armorings, but I dont have too many problems with the RNG for that, because I have not seen too many problems with the drop rates.

I just prefer being able to play different types of content and be stuff only playing a few things to get tokens.

Ahh, the good 'ol days. Back in the 1.x era. I don't remember exactly when I started. I remember that it was after legacies were added, and before HK-51, so sometime middle of 2012. Those were the halcyon days were we had a currency to buy the gear we wanted. And all we had to do was run Black Hole, Belsavis, and Ilum dailies over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and...well, you get the idea. It took a lot of completions. We had to get our gear, and we had to get gear for our companion, but each companion needed different gear, so if we wanted a geared tank, healer, and dps comp we had to acquire four sets of gear. Yep, so much better then. At least back then I always knew exactly what content I had to run each and every single day of the week. The same content. Each and every single day of the week. Yep, so much better.

Oh, wait, I forgot the [/sarcasm] tag because it wasn't better. Now we can run any content we want, absolutely any content, and still acquire gear. Once you get a single character to 304+ irating you will start getting more gear than you know what to do with. I took a break after 6.0 for various reasons, I fully admit that there are areas that could do with improvement, and only just returned with update 6.1.1 (actually it was a little over a week later, so around 29 April). When I came back I had one character in 280 something gear and the rest of my level 70 -75 characters were in 252 gear. Now, two months later, I have 17 characters with irating 306, one character that has a set of gear waiting for them to hit lvl 75 that will put them at irating 306, and I have to disintegrate anything under rating 306 because I don't have room to story it. This has been the easiest it has ever been to gear my characters. True, they don't all have set bonus gear, I'm still working on that, but all but two of them have their tactical (the last two would be getting their tactical on Tuesday if BW hadn't screwed small guilds out of Conquest this week). Can it be confusing to know what set bonus to wear or which tactical to use? Yeah, but you can always ask in gen chat. After 10 or 12 rude comments someone will give a straight answer.

What should you run to get gear? Anything. All content is a viable path to acquiring gear. What should you do when you log in? Whatever you want. Play the game instead of playing a specific set of content over, and over, and over, and... Some content will take a little longer than others, but you'll get there. And considering how long it took to acquire the commendations to acquire gear, for your character and your comps, in the no-not-better 1.x days...well, it's not like we're not used to taking a little time to gear.

Corrected as requested.

Except the entire design of tech fragments is absolutely garbage.

Oh, wait, I forgot the [/sarcasm] tag because it wasn't better. Now we can run any content we want, absolutely any content, and still acquire gear.

Blatantly false. Try earning tech frags in pvp....oh wait you cant. The only viable way to gear in this game is to spam hammer station. Sorry, but the current gearing system is trash. There's no meaning to ops or end game in general anymore.

Blatantly false. Try earning tech frags in pvp....oh wait you cant. The only viable way to gear in this game is to spam hammer station. Sorry, but the current gearing system is trash. There's no meaning to ops or end game in general anymore.

False.

I never spam hammer station. Haven't been in it in months. Can gear all my 75's all I want doing other things.

Blatantly false. Try earning tech frags in pvp....oh wait you cant. The only viable way to gear in this game is to spam hammer station. Sorry, but the current gearing system is trash. There's no meaning to ops or end game in general anymore.

Really? Because I solo everything, don't run flashpoints anymore, and get between 3000-6000 tech frags a week. I guess I'm doing it wrong.

Blatantly false. Try earning tech frags in pvp....oh wait you cant. The only viable way to gear in this game is to spam hammer station. Sorry, but the current gearing system is trash. There's no meaning to ops or end game in general anymore.

Like Xor and Cery said, there is absolutely no need to spam HS. It may require you to do things other than merely warzones though. That means Onderon dailies, the Mek Sha Tradehouse requisition weekly, Conquest, etc.

However, I agree with you that, in general, pvp should award more tech fragments. I think there needs to be a way to ensure that degenerate play isn't rewarded, for example, someone who just sort of stands in the warzone and doesn't contribute. That's going to be hard to define for, say, a capture-type WZ like Alderaan/Yavin/Novare, but obviously much easier to identify in an Arena (someone who does /stuck at the beginning of every round intentionally). But, assuming that there is some way to reward legitimate play (perhaps by medals?), then I agree WZ need to have their TF increased. I said this in regards to conquest and I'm saying in regards to TF too.

Really? Because I solo everything, don't run flashpoints anymore, and get between 3000-6000 tech frags a week. I guess I'm doing it wrong.

Ya, that's slow. You're also proving the OP's point. The game has no direction and endgame is meaningless.

Ya, that's slow. You're also proving the OP's point. The game has no direction and endgame is meaningless.

The game has plenty of direction, it's up to you which way you want to go. There is plenty of content for people to pick and choose from. As spamming HS, it's definately not the only way to go. As people have pointed out, I hit the max every week, and spend them all every week, sometimes more than once. I run mostly solo stuff (not because there's nothing there, but because I choose not to). Every now and then I might do an op, or run through GF. Just because you can gear through other means, doesn't make end game meaningless, there is still plenty of things to do, achievments to earn, deco's mounts, etc. And of course, tech frags,