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Group Finder NEEDS a fix - NOW


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Dont get me wrong - group finder is very, very helpful at getting us all levelled with BH comms.

However, as we have seen in countless post and in gen chat - it is VERY skewed against DPS toons.

 

Everyone knows we must wait the longest, while tanks and healers have nearly 100% insta-queue rate.

Anyone that says differently is either lying or seriously mistaken.

I queue for group finder 4 times a da to do my BH comms. DPS takes 30 mins at least, while heals and tank are less than 3 mins (usually instant).

 

Now - I love the insta-queue, really do - what I do not love, is the fact that the entire group's power and ability to finishe lies at the whim of these toons.

Too many time do i wait 45 mins, get queued with someone who is maybe undergeared or inexperienced, The tank or healer gets upset at a wipe and quits after wasting our time for 20 mins or so.

Why do they quit you ask?? SIMPLE - they only need to wait out a 13 min lockout before they can insta-queue again!!!!

 

If i could queue in only 13 mins, this post would not be happening.

But that is NOT the case, is it.....nope - our group disbands, and then i am forced to re-queue and go through the whole process again. I spent 3 hours trying to complete 1 Harm Mode the other night - 3 HOURS!!! They only take 20-45 mins a peice!

 

There needs to be a stiffer penalty for quitters, i'm sorry - its the only solution.

Tanks and healers cannot be given the luxury of an easy quit because they dont like the group, its just flat out not fair at all.

What I say - slap a 12-24 hour cooldown on GF if you quit for no good reason - that will teach people some patience and instill some cooperation for once.

now, i know all the haters will say that people quit for a lot of reasons...sure, I get that...stuff comes up.

So, instead of just a rage-quit 24 hour cooldown, we eable a "Vote to Disband" button too - this allows the group the option to stop without forcing anyone to be on CD.

 

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I get tank/heal rage quitters 3-5 times a week - this needs to stop, there is only so much material I can run through while waiting in the queue!!

 

HELP ME DEVELOPERS!! MAKE THIS FEATURE BETTER AND MORE RELIABLE!!

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"lol 12 hours two long lol l2p noob lol"

 

Seriously, though, I support stiffer penalties for ragequitters. Screw 'em. You're going free-to-play anyway, so their subscriptions should be the first to go. No one likes them and they don't like us, so everyone's happy. Problem solved.

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While I can see the frustration of the OP I'd have to say you're falsely accusing it of needing a fix. The way to test this roll a tank or heals queue in the group finder and decline on every pop up after 3 or so cycles you will notice DPS tends to change. Why is this you ask? Because in some cases, only speaking on the server I play on, for every 1 tank there is 10 DPS maybe more or less but that being said if all 10 DPS happen to be in the group finder it will cycle around until you are number 1 in the queue to be picked for the flashpoint thus creating your hour long waits. Again I understand your frustration as my tank was madness DPS spec before I respec but only solution to the problem is either roll a tank, roll a healer, join a guild, make a guild, or suffer with the random long queues.
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some people dont have patience... I'm pulling up with dpses who think they are king of the world, attack elite mob while strongs and normals are attacking my/mine healer (my - group healer, mine - when I heal), it's fine. 2 or 3 times I wont heal/taunt off them, and they learn. You cc'ed? we dont care, let's hit mob once and leave him alone, we dont want healer to fall asleep... right?

 

there is no fix for that what OP is asking. Want implement 6 hours 'rage quit ban'? Fine, if I wanna rage quit, I will force dc, and will look like disconnect, while You and your group wait for 15 minutes while all other tanks are joining other teams.

doesnt mean I will or do that, but it's an example how fix will be abused and turned against OP.

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Right now the penalty needs to go to zero because people are still being put into roles they didn't queue for.

 

Not true since the penalty isn't applied if you decline a group, only if you accept then quit.

 

As for the OP, there is another issue here and that is people using general chat to build pug fp/ops groups to jump the queue. My advice would be to make friends with a tank and healer and just queue up with them.

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some people dont have patience... I'm pulling up with dpses who think they are king of the world, attack elite mob while strongs and normals are attacking my/mine healer (my - group healer, mine - when I heal), it's fine. 2 or 3 times I wont heal/taunt off them, and they learn. You cc'ed? we dont care, let's hit mob once and leave him alone, we dont want healer to fall asleep... right?

 

This has nothing to do with OP's point. Not all tanks are gods in their role either. Lack of skill, douchiness make no class distinction.

Problem is, due to class (or should I say, role ) imbalance population, tanks and healers can get away with it with ease.

If that imbalance isn't corrected somehow, the abuses will still be there no matter what how many tweaks the group finder gets.

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Part of the problem is that BW strayed from the 5man group. reducing the number of dps toons per group by 1/3.

 

Another is that there is no incentive to play a tank or healer once they are geared. FPs become a waste of time very quickly. The best gear in the game is made available to everyone with little effort. Make PvE comms Bind on Legacy, giving someone with a tank or healer reason to play while still being able to benefit their DPS alts.

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I'm not quiet sure what is actually being suggested here as a fix. The only true solution to the problem is to some how get more people to take on the role of healer and tank (which they did encourage with the legacy respec skill along with the stat itemization between heals and DPS being nearly identical).

 

It seems like you are requesting a more harsher lockout for people dropping group which I would imagine would simply discourage healers and tanks from even bothering to run HM's even more through group finder. Players in general will always feel the need to drop a group if they view it as inadequate to their liking. So long as dpser remain in low demand with the high number of players refusing to take up another role, they will continue to feel the harsh effects of not being needed. Tanks and healers, will also continue to have no problem finding a group of friends that they can use to stay away from group finder as the annoyance factor from group finder raises.

 

I'd imagine that your suggestion for a "fix" to group finder may only make matters much worse.

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Any more if i am on my healer and the tank DCs leaves or w/e i use my tank companion and still finish the FP...if i am on my tank and the healer does the same i use my companion again and finish the zone usually FASTER then what i would with a pug healer.

 

When i play my dps i am at the whim of slow tanks, and healers that dont know how to heal multiple people, i do end up dying more, and suffer from long que times; but majority of the time i have learned not que as my dps unless i am with friends.

 

As far as making comms legacy bound, they're already to some degree. Yes it is more expensive to buy a BH piece pull out the mods put it in a BoL piece and then pull them out again to give to an alt, but honestly it sure beats queing as a dps.

 

As a sidenote most (~80%) of the pug dps i come across are either annoying (CC when it isnt needed) or can be out dps by the majority of my companions.

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Thanks OP, I was getting annoyed at queueing for ages with new first character, a DPS. After about half an hour each time I assumed it was 'broken' and left the queue in indignation. Now I see that's its just a crappy system for DPS players. Yes I hope it can be balanced up a bit.
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Thanks OP, I was getting annoyed at queueing for ages with new first character, a DPS. After about half an hour each time I assumed it was 'broken' and left the queue in indignation. Now I see that's its just a crappy system for DPS players. Yes I hope it can be balanced up a bit.

Having a dps main, I do feel your pain.

 

However, most people like to play dps and that is the reason for long queue times. When I queue with my healer or tank alt, my queue pops almost instantly.

 

There is no "fix" for the Group Finder that will magically convince more people to roll tanks and healers instead of dps.

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Actually what would solve most of the DPS problem is this. At Level 50, only allow a person signing up to sign up for one role.

 

Case in point Mercenaries (Commandos), Sorcerers (Sages) and Operative (Scoundrels), get the option to Queue as DPS AND Healer. I know that Juggernauts (Guardians), Powertechs (Vanguards), and Assassins (Shadows) can sign up as Tanks AND DPS.

 

Those Juggernauts (Guardians), Sorcerers (Sages), Mercenaries (Commandos), Assassins (Shadows), and Powertechs (Vanguards) are taking the DPS slots away from the Marauders (Sentinels) and Snipers (Gunslingers).

 

I have been in many a group with 2 Juggernauts, or 2 Sorcerers. One group I had an Assassin as a tank and 2 Sorcerers as DPS and I as the Mercenary was the Healer.

 

That is why "Tanks" and "Healers" almost Insta-queue, they are in the GF as two roles while the DPS is only listed once.

Edited by Verem
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Actually what would solve most of the DPS problem is this. At Level 50, only allow a person signing up to sign up for one role.

 

Case in point Mercenaries (Commandos), Sorcerers (Sages) and Operative (Scoundrels), get the option to Queue as DPS AND Healer. I know that Juggernauts (Guardians), Powertechs (Vanguards), and Assassins (Shadows) can sign up as Tanks AND DPS.

 

Those Juggernauts (Guardians), Sorcerers (Sages), Mercenaries (Commandos), Assassins (Shadows), and Powertechs (Vanguards) are taking the DPS slots away from the Marauders (Sentinels) and Snipers (Gunslingers).

 

I have been in many a group with 2 Juggernauts, or 2 Sorcerers. One group I had an Assassin as a tank and 2 Sorcerers as DPS and I as the Mercenary was the Healer.

 

That is why "Tanks" and "Healers" almost Insta-queue, they are in the GF as two roles while the DPS is only listed once.

 

of a dps spec sorc sign as healer, he is no-go and will get kicked...

jugg is not always a tank. they have 2 dps trees.

people do not sign up as both (unless they do a mistake).

but, I agree, to change checkbox to radio button would be a solution to some silly mistakes, but, you are forgetting about field respec, and that some ppl actually carry two sets of armors.

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Actually what would solve most of the DPS problem is this. At Level 50, only allow a person signing up to sign up for one role.

 

I think my server may be abnormal in having a lot of healers, but I definitely agree with this.

 

I have queue'd myself as a healer a few times now, and gotten tossed into a dps role instead (2-3 times out of 6? on my latest 50). Some of that can reasonably be attributed to me - I requeued without triple checking that my dps box remained unchecked (though why this setting ever resets is beyond me). Another time I very clearly saw only heal selected, and still got chosen as dps (??).

 

It's not a huge deal for me - I can and do respec, but I wanted to play a healer, someone else wanted to play a dps, and now I'm not getting what I wanted and the other guy is getting a longer wait. Craziness.

 

I can see not really caring whether I dps or heal a particular FP and wanting to be queue'd as both, but if you run a FP a day, respec costs will quickly make that less appealing.

Edited by shadowflit
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The best thing that could happen to the group finder is for it to have some form of recognition of what has already been completed on that legacy already.

 

Example:

 

I always do at least 3 flashpoints a day. I use my PT tank first, then my Op heals, then my Sorc heal. I then try and queue for either my Mara or Sniper and just can't handle the 30+ minute wait time. What I would love to see is the group finder recognize that my legacy name has filled a tank slot, and two heal slots already in one day, and pushes my DPS classes higher in the queue when I queue on one of them.

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Dont get me wrong - group finder is very, very helpful at getting us all levelled with BH comms.

However, as we have seen in countless post and in gen chat - it is VERY skewed against DPS toons.

 

Everyone knows we must wait the longest, while tanks and healers have nearly 100% insta-queue rate.

Anyone that says differently is either lying or seriously mistaken.

I queue for group finder 4 times a da to do my BH comms. DPS takes 30 mins at least, while heals and tank are less than 3 mins (usually instant).

 

Now - I love the insta-queue, really do - what I do not love, is the fact that the entire group's power and ability to finishe lies at the whim of these toons.

Too many time do i wait 45 mins, get queued with someone who is maybe undergeared or inexperienced, The tank or healer gets upset at a wipe and quits after wasting our time for 20 mins or so.

Why do they quit you ask?? SIMPLE - they only need to wait out a 13 min lockout before they can insta-queue again!!!!

 

If i could queue in only 13 mins, this post would not be happening.

But that is NOT the case, is it.....nope - our group disbands, and then i am forced to re-queue and go through the whole process again. I spent 3 hours trying to complete 1 Harm Mode the other night - 3 HOURS!!! They only take 20-45 mins a peice!

 

There needs to be a stiffer penalty for quitters, i'm sorry - its the only solution.

Tanks and healers cannot be given the luxury of an easy quit because they dont like the group, its just flat out not fair at all.

What I say - slap a 12-24 hour cooldown on GF if you quit for no good reason - that will teach people some patience and instill some cooperation for once.

now, i know all the haters will say that people quit for a lot of reasons...sure, I get that...stuff comes up.

So, instead of just a rage-quit 24 hour cooldown, we eable a "Vote to Disband" button too - this allows the group the option to stop without forcing anyone to be on CD.

 

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I get tank/heal rage quitters 3-5 times a week - this needs to stop, there is only so much material I can run through while waiting in the queue!!

 

HELP ME DEVELOPERS!! MAKE THIS FEATURE BETTER AND MORE RELIABLE!!

 

You seem to be suffering from the same problem I used to suffer. I like to call it "THE SUCKY PLAYER SYNDROME"

Im my experience Tank decides that can kill everything so charges ahead without waiting for the group or even the healer. Somebody announces healer is not here yet. Tank realizes that he is getting his *** kicked and dies. Afterwards tank quits and group reques expending probably 30- 60 mins waiting for a tank replacement.

 

However I did find a solution to the problem and I do not have that problem any more.

Star wars gives everybody the tools to fix that problem. You have 5 companions that are able to replace any role.

While everybody looked at me funny for still farming black hole comms to gear up my companions. Now my tank and my healer companions are both full black hole giving me the chance to pop them out as soon as any sucky tank or healer leaves. Takes time but is not impossible.

 

Although I do agree the penalties for certain roles for quitting should be higher. I also think that they should let us add our companions to the que if they are geared enough to replace a certain role from a player that might not be queuing at the moment.

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There is nothing wrong with the group finder aside from getting the role you didn't queue for (and not being able to group up while in GF queue).

 

The issue is the population imbalance. There aren't many healers and there are fewer tanks. Combine that with those fewer tanks not running through GF very often because of bad experiences in the past and you end up with very long wait times on a tank to queue. On my server the population ratio looks something like 2:3:10 (Tanks:Healers:DPS). Now you combine that with the tank only needing to queue once a day for comms and you quickly end up with long wait times for DPS (and many DPS that just drop queue).

 

Now possibly solutions that have been offered include:

- Cross server

- Rewards for tanks and healers

- Dual spec

 

Cross server WILL NOT fix this issue where it is most prevalent: at 50. The ratio does not change (much) and the wait times remain high for DPS while tanks and healers remain very low. While this would improve times for sub 50 FPs due to higher numbers of players queuing in those level ranges, that is not the issue as you can continue to quest while waiting.

 

Rewards for tanks/heals may work by providing an incentive for them to queue as a tank/healer more than once a day OR by providing increased rewards for queuing as a tank or healer. I don't think this is a good solution as it does tend to give DPS a reason to queue tank/heals without being able to actually do it well.

 

Dual spec: What many people consider the panacea to all GF issues. Personally I don't think this will make a huge difference to queue times. It would make some difference when tanks can run as DPS for PvP and then queue for a HM FP as a tank without having to respec. I suspect SOME DPS would run in their off-spec for reduced wait times but I doubt it would be enough to make a real difference. Plus a lot of the complainants are Sentinels/Marauders, the most prolific class (on my server) and one that can't take on either role.

 

Further, a lot of the players willing to run dual spec already have an off-spec set and can queue as tanks/healers. Guardian can queue tank while in DPS spec *IF* they have tank gear. They don't need to respec, just change gear. I suspect the same is true for VGs and Shadows if their tank set is Columi+ as tank spec doesn't add a lot of survivability, mostly utility and resource management. Healers on the other hand NEED to be specced for heals or they just suck.

 

TL;DR: Roll a tank or healer: be part of the solution and profit!

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There needs to be a stiffer penalty for quitters, i'm sorry - its the only solution.

Tanks and healers cannot be given the luxury of an easy quit because they dont like the group, its just flat out not fair at all.

 

Just throwing this out there as a suggestion; add any player who does that to your ignore list so you won't be queued with them again and encourage others in your group to do the same. Process of elimination means slowly but surely that person will have less people to queue with over time if others respond the same way, assuming it was to be habitual. I've added plenty of players to my ignore list and only wish the matching system worked the same way for warzones.

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I was on my tank on Sat evening and spent 2 hours waiting for an Op group (I'd already done Karagga's Palace, so it had to be an EV group). I got one pop that someone dropped out of.

 

The problem is the massive number of dps that are queuing, and the fact that an 8man Op requires exactly the same ratio of players as a 4 man. If they changed the GF raid size to be 16, they would be taking proportionally more dps players out of the queue than the other roles, but unfortunately you can't do that, because the pool of players is too small without cross-server.

 

What they could do (realistically) is make it so that if you queue for an Op as a group (as in 2 or more players) you can switch between 8 and 16 player requested. This allows your 7 man quild run to pick up a tank who hasn't turned up, and do your regular run. If you queue solo, you have to queue for 16.

Also, put a punishing timeframe on groupfinder use if you drop out. 1 hour, stacking each time you drop out, with a stack dropping off once per day when the dailies reset.

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I gotta say as someone who only plays tanks and healers this is funny. Couple things first there are two ways for BW to fix this either gives healers and tanks more daily rewards for FP's (which would be nice for healers cause doing planetary dailies as a healer is annoying) or make the FP's harder and add a dps.

 

The easy way for you to fix this is friend a tank or a healer and Que with them. Everytime I sign on I get bombarded with requests from dps to do FP's. Most of the time I don't mind some of the time I do and thats when I charge to group with you. Some dps find it worth the money some don't. Also guys who are.good at dps and watch and help the healer when adds come get preferential healing from me. If you think you are god and do whatever you please I let you die.

 

Another thing you dps may not know but in a hm FP tanks and healers tend to know each other due to lack of each and whisper to each other about their moronic dps. Not that there is anything you can do about that but if a healer or a tank tells you to stop doing something or to.do something do it. If you don't you will probably wind up on both of our ignore lists.

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Over the last week I've waited 2-5 minutes as dps to get into a group. Usually it's more like a half hour though.

 

This is a difficult problem to solve....WoW tried solving it by adding special rewards to the tanks and healers to queue more often...it maybe helped a little, but it didn't fix it permanently. I think making Group Finder cross-realm would probably help a lot.

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I gotta say as someone who only plays tanks and healers this is funny. Couple things first there are two ways for BW to fix this either gives healers and tanks more daily rewards for FP's (which would be nice for healers cause doing planetary dailies as a healer is annoying).

 

Funny, my healing Op with Kaliyo solos dailies faster than any of my DPSers.

 

The easy way for you to fix this is friend a tank or a healer and Que with them. Everytime I sign on I get bombarded with requests from dps to do FP's. Most of the time I don't mind some of the time I do and thats when I charge to group with you. Some dps find it worth the money some don't. Also guys who are.good at dps and watch and help the healer when adds come get preferential healing from me. If you think you are god and do whatever you please I let you die.

 

Wow, because one of the reasons I play healers is so I don't have to be saddled on a team with an arrogant healer with a God Complex. I heal everyone: good and bad, geared and ungeared, competent or not. You can be a drooling idiot and I'll keep healing you, because - oh yeah - it's MY JOB.

 

You charge people to team? If you "let them die" do they get their money back?

 

Another thing you dps may not know but in a hm FP tanks and healers tend to know each other due to lack of each and whisper to each other about their moronic dps. Not that there is anything you can do about that but if a healer or a tank tells you to stop doing something or to.do something do it. If you don't you will probably wind up on both of our ignore lists.

 

Correction: YOU whisper tanks and healers about moronic DPS. Don't tar all of us with your brush. On the rare occasions I whisper anyone in an FP it's generally the DPS to warn them to be careful about a sub-par tank who can't hold aggro. My ignore list is mostly dominated by primadonna rage-quitting tanks. DPS won't make that list unless they grief or ninja.

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Over the last week I've waited 2-5 minutes as dps to get into a group. Usually it's more like a half hour though.

 

This is a difficult problem to solve....WoW tried solving it by adding special rewards to the tanks and healers to queue more often...it maybe helped a little, but it didn't fix it permanently. I think making Group Finder cross-realm would probably help a lot.

 

The groupfinder should have been cross-server from the start, but some of the leet-kiddies whined; mainly the ones who didn't want a groupfinder to begin with. I expect it will go quietly cross-server in another six months or so.

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