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Consolidated Post: APAC/Oceanic Server Concerns


Cheezfriend

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Anyone who has played on a US server has experienced lag spikes during pvp that result in an opponent disappearing then reappearing behind them and DEAD.

 

Why are people arguing what is already widely known to be fact?

 

200ms isn't massive amounts of lag, but it is a disadvantage. my latency varies from 25ms to 125ms already on dalborra, and at worst 500ms..once you account for the variance 200ms WILL result in 1 second lag spikes or worse at some point.

 

To deny facts is asinine. Also a fact is that there are many more mmorpg's that could have my regular sub, BIOWARE must accept that this decision WILL result in loss of sub's, they must have also decided that the loss of %AUS sub's is acceptable in their business model. So be it.. Elder Scrolls Online come to me.

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Oh, more great news.

 

As Guildmaster of <The League of Shadows> I have been informed by my officers and the numbers of my guild that seventeen members have unsubscribed last night alone. Bioware, for every scrap of dignity you have left, stop this idiocy! Send an email to those unsubscribers and invite them back if you're really good, if not then just ditch this decision! You haven't even made a formal announcement in the news yet, stop hiding and wait until others who don't explore the forums or are on other servers hear about this.

 

Change this stupid decision!

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Action happens you see it in .22 of a second, you react and .22 of a second later it happens in game, that nearly 1/2 second,

work that in with my lag to us servers at anywhere from 340 to 600... tell me what you get and then how I can combat a 1 second interrupt.

 

I play my Sorcerer pretty quick using TAB and hot keys... I'm a pretty aggressive player and like to run at a target... When a 1 second instant cast won't work because the server takes to long to acknowledge you are close enough to do a 10 meter cast, you end up behind the target or on top of them and the cast won't work, then that 220ms - 600ms is noticeable... And that's on a ranged character... imagine playing a melee one like an Operative or Assassin

I can only imagine what it would be like doing ranked PVP...

And using TAB target was point less... it was quicker to click the target with my mouse pointer... what a joke... how can you PVP like that...

 

KEEP THE FAITH... SIGN THE PETITION

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

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Anyone who has played on a US server has experienced lag spikes during pvp that result in an opponent disappearing then reappearing behind them and DEAD.

 

Why are people arguing what is already widely known to be fact?

 

200ms isn't massive amounts of lag, but it is a disadvantage. my latency varies from 25ms to 125ms already on dalborra, and at worst 500ms..once you account for the variance 200ms WILL result in 1 second lag spikes or worse at some point.

 

To deny facts is asinine. Also a fact is that there are many more mmorpg's that could have my regular sub, BIOWARE must accept that this decision WILL result in loss of sub's, they must have also decided that the loss of %AUS sub's is acceptable in their business model. So be it.. Elder Scrolls Online come to me.

 

I've played games in Europe, North America and Asia and I can tell you lag spikes happen everywhere, and are generally correlated to your ISP or local hardware issues.

 

Increased ping =/= higher chance of a lag spike. You start "noticing" lag around 150ms ping.

 

Ping (e.g., that number on your bottom right UI) is correlated to distance to server. There are latency reduction technologies which servers can employ, but generally the hardware itself is very stable.

 

And you're assuming that these packet losses and spikes only affect APAC players. They can happen to anyone with an unreliable internet connection.

 

What IS stable is that on average, a US player will only have an advantage of roughly 0.12 to 0.18 seconds over APAC players (assuming US player averages 50ms and APAC averages 200ms).

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Lol read my other responses.

 

Ping = round trip response time of a server. In other words, time it takes for a packet to be sent to server, server to update game state, and return game state to client-side. From my other post:

 

Let's do this in steps:

 

1) Droid is standing still -> time elapsed = 0.0 seconds

2) Client-side (player) activates force-lightning -> packet gets sent to server-side instructing server to update game-state

3) Server-side receives packet, updates game state and returns updated game-state to client-side

4) Busted droid appears on your screen

 

Time it takes to complete steps 1-4 = "ping".

.

 

Wrong, this is more like it in reality:

 

0 sec: 2 players run into room.

 

.03 sec: American players see's apac player. Apac player see's empty room.

 

0.25 sec: American player reacts and casts. Apac player see's american player.

 

0.49 sec: Apac player reacts and casts. American player is halway through cast bar.

 

0.71 sec: Apac players dies, halfways through cast and never even had the POSSIBILTY of winning even with the same reaction time.

 

 

This effect snow balls onwards through the match. And lag spikes are often worse than that.

 

Lag is bad, everyone knows that, so im guessing your trolling or fixated on this thread. Or perhaps you dont do high-end Rated pvp and OPS. But this is all old news and why they introduced regional servers in the firstplace.

 

Why not make all of EU play on NA servers then if it makes no difference. Good luck with that.

Edited by Thornsbane
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What a load of complete crap... we have a guild with 100+ members on Dalbora... that isn't including Alt's... I know that there are NO American's in our Guild

Most of the people I PVP with and on the Dalbora server aren't American... so I don't know where you get your information from... my guess is you are American yourself and are looking forward to the move so YOU get a better PING...

 

AV was being sarcastic. Aussie sarcasm is so hard to pick up on unless we put a ....NOT or ? at the end.

Edited by keitzy
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If you don't have anything new to contribute other than repeating and rehasing what yourself and others have said so many times already, why do you persist?

 

I kind of feel like you're trying to drown out the voices of those who are trying to make the best of this situation.

 

I'd rather see people keep playing the game than seeing people spreading misinformation regarding lag (read my posts, most people don't understand what lag is or how ping works) in an effort to get people to unsub and kill the game.

 

There are people who have serious questions about the playability on US servers and I think they deserve to know what it will be like based on technical metrics rather than anectodal "i tried and lagged out at 600 ping so it is not even worth trying because I was lagged for 5 seconds and was dead when I unfroze."

 

I can agree with you that 120-200ms ping STABLE is quite playable. But there are some of my friend in Dalbora told me they have 400-500 at Harbinger and spike a lot - and that's unplayable for them. Contact the ISP ? you know it's not realistic that the ISP will do something for you in this case.

 

Can other APAC member on this thread report their ping also ?

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Wrong, this is more like it in reality:

 

0 sec: 2 players run into room.

 

.03 sec: American players see's apac player. Apac player see's empty room.

 

0.25 sec: American player reacts and casts. Apac player see's american player.

 

0.49 sec: Apac player reacts and casts. American player is halway through cast bar.

 

0.71 sec: Apac players dies, halfways through cast and never even had the POSSIBILTY of winning even with the same reaction time.

 

 

This effect snow balls onwards through the match. And lag spicks are often worse than that.

 

Lag is bad, everyone knows that, so im guessing your trolling or fixated on this thread. Or perhaps you dont do high-end Rated pvp and OPS. But this is all old news and why they introduced regional servers in the firstplace.

 

If you've never heard of <Offline> you were not doing "high-end Rated pvp".

 

Also, your example is horribly wrong. You're making some terrible assumptions:

 

1) you assume American player has a ping of 30ms - this is not true for most American players

2) you're putting in a completely unrealistic scenario of reaction time - there are no "rooms" in SWTOR PVP

3) your APAC player got 1-shotted - not happening

4) in real game 2 players don't just "run at each other" with nobody else around in a perfectly straight line with no obstacles

5) US players also get lag spikes

 

If this were an FPS, then yes this would be a much bigger deal. Also probably same goes for LOL and Starcraft where very fast micro skills and high actions per minute are critical to success.

Edited by iheartnyc
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I can agree with you that 120-200ms ping STABLE is quite playable. But there are some of my friend in Dalbora told me they have 400-500 at Harbinger and spike a lot - and that's unplayable for them. Contact the ISP ? you know it's not realistic that the ISP will do something for you in this case.

 

Can other APAC member on this thread report their ping also ?

 

There was another thread a long time ago and people were reporting anywhere from 140ms to crazy 600-700ms. I recall the "median" figure being around 200ms. I personally get 150ish. Most of my guildies on Bastion get high 100s. I've "lagged out" probably once every 4 hours of game time but then I have multiple computers running at the same time and I play on my WiFi network.

 

Don't get me wrong, some people are going to get screwed by this. Hard. And they should rightly unsub.

 

But the claim that the game will be unplayable by most APAC is highly exaggerated and just not true. There will be an impact on your gameplay, but it will be an impact of approximately 0.12 to 0.18 seconds relative to your American counterparts.

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0.22 seconds. A US player will have an advantage over you of 0.18 to 0.12 seconds. That's not that bad.

 

That is the difference between dying or not... plus that was the BEST I could get.... it was up to 300ms at one point... I can only imagine how bad it would be with more people on the server playing at the same time... latency always goes up... so imagine playing with a 600ms latency in Hutt Ball... they could have the ball and score before you even new they'd picked it up...

And what about the people who don't live 100 meters from the exchange or have NBN or Cable... they get even worse latency

Then what if you live in WA or SA... all of a sudden you have 800+ ms... the game then starts to become unplayable even doing flash points... for PVP... it would be impossible

How about EA add a lag spike to the North American players so we all have the same Latency?

We know that won't happen...

 

KEEP THE FAITH... SIGN THE PETITION

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

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2) you're putting in a completely unrealistic scenario of reaction time - there are no "rooms" in SWTOR PVP

3) your APAC player got 1-shotted - not happening

4) in real game 2 players don't just "run at each other" with nobody else around in a perfectly straight line with no obstacles

.

 

Omg, it was a simple example of the effect of lag. The fact that you even felt the need to type those above 3 points is just weird.

 

Ok, your fixated.

 

Ciao. :cool:

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If you've never heard of <Offline> you were not doing "high-end Rated pvp".

 

Also, your example is horribly wrong. You're making some terrible assumptions:

 

1) you assume American player has a ping of 30ms - this is not true for most American players

2) you're putting in a completely unrealistic scenario of reaction time - there are no "rooms" in SWTOR PVP

3) your APAC player got 1-shotted - not happening

4) in real game 2 players don't just "run at each other" with nobody else around in a perfectly straight line with no obstacles

5) US players also get lag spikes.

 

Come to think of it, I don't think that I've ever met anyone from New York that I like. I had a New Yorker for a boss once, he ran 3 different aliases, ripped off a heap of clients and was generally lazy and useless. He also thought he was smarter than he actually was.

 

It doesn't matter how many variables you add to the equation, American players and Australian players both face those. The Americans get an unfair advantage (which from experience, they generally need) in terms of latency. Sure, there are Americans with poor connections, but there are a lot of Australians with crappy connections. Connections with high latency and a greater geographic distance from the server are much more prone to lag spikes as well as higher baseline latency. An Australian PvP guild in Ranked WZs will have a cumulative disadvantage against an American guild because of location and not skill. Always.

 

Oh, and Voidstar is a series of linked rooms you imbecile.

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Lol if you had a ping of 1000 for 1 second that's called a lag-spike and you should contact your ISP. Or maybe it's client-side harddrive/memory/graphics card issues.

 

Also, a ping is not an average. It is always updating between packets. Calculating ping is a very low memory intensive application which is why it is always on and always working and the number may vary or fluctuate, but any such fluctuations are usually attributable to your computer or your ISP.

 

Ping is correlated to distance to server. There are latency reduction technologies which servers can employ, but generally the hardware itself is very stable.

 

And you're assuming that these packet losses and spikes only affect APAC players. They can happen to anyone with an unreliable internet connection.

 

What IS stable is that on average, a US player will only have an advantage of roughly 0.12 to 0.18 seconds over APAC players (assuming US player averages 50ms and APAC averages 200ms).

 

 

 

ok I understand lag spikes and no not always related to my isp, ask anyone that lived through the issues of approx 2 years ago went a US server went down and effected my ping to the US.

 

Go back a step

I see droid and press button droid blows up .22

however...

I see player press button .22 he gets hit, he sees that in .03 and reacts, I am already behind, what you are saying doesn't change that, they are different packets, or you may as well say the whole 5 second fight is all done in .22 of a second

 

You cannot just say the ping is .22 so that's how far your are behind, there is other factors that have to be added in.

In this case US servers ARE laggy to us, and do spike a lot, this is fact(if they don't for you, then I envy your internet connection), and, experienced by any of us that played the US servers before, quoting theoretical networking/traffic rules wont change the actual experience, and from experience I have had a .340 response kill me because I wasn't where I thought I was, and a 340ms ping is what I DO get in a US server.

You can spout all the "this is what is supposed to happen" however in practice it doesn't.

 

I had in experience a 340ms lag kill me in game due to not being where I thought I was. it does make a difference and quite a big one in situations where you need to be very quick on your feet, ie PvP and raiding, to the general leveling population not so much, but to make statement like .22 is not bad, that's incorrect no matter how you try to prove it.

 

A closer and much better way of putting it would be to the majority that don't raid or PVP there wont be a big difference.

 

Regardless of all of that the fact is BW are asking us to swallow an inferior gaming experience with little to no contact to ask us how we feel about it, people are angry and your snipes are not helping.

Its not like some of the other games where people went in knowing the servers are located off site, these were here and the Aussies had a service akin to their US and EU counterparts, you are defending a company that has said, "we dont care about Aussies"

First given then removed without proper consultation

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That is the difference between dying or not... plus that was the BEST I could get.... it was up to 300ms at one point... I can only imagine how bad it would be with more people on the server playing at the same time... latency always goes up... so imagine playing with a 600ms latency in Hutt Ball... they could have the ball and score before you even new they'd picked it up...

And what about the people who don't live 100 meters from the exchange or have NBN or Cable... they get even worse latency

Then what if you live in WA or SA... all of a sudden you have 800+ ms... the game then starts to become unplayable even doing flash points... for PVP... it would be impossible

How about EA add a lag spike to the North American players so we all have the same Latency?

We know that won't happen...

 

KEEP THE FAITH... SIGN THE PETITION

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

 

Are you being serious? You're assuming APAC players will be in the worst possible scenario while all Americans are in the best possible scenario.

 

US players also get lag spikes and disconnects and also suffer from shoddy ISPs. If you're frequently getting spikes over 300ms, that's honestly a problem with your ISP not routing you well to the West Coast server and that sucks and I wonder how many APAC players are in that same boat. If you have bad a ISP, yes, the game is unplayable for you. Same as if you're located in Alaska or Hawaii in the USA. What I'm trying to have a discussion on, is how it affects APAC players in general, not just in the hard-up cases.

 

Also, the game "stuttering" when there are a lot of people on your screen has nothing to do with ping. That is more a combination of server-tech and probably issues with your hardware as well.

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I've just tried to submit the following ticket on both my accounts, let's see if I get any kind of response:

 

Recently it was announced that SWTOR is closing it's Asia Pacific servers and moving all account's to NA servers.

 

As this substantially changes the ping that I would be playing with I would like to cancel the expansion pack I pre-ordered and have the funds reimbursed to my credit card on file.

 

I also would like a pro-rata refund on my remaining subscription time as EA/Bioware have substantial changed the service that I would be receiving by the closure of the APAC servers.

 

Please advise of the proper procedure to do the above if this method is not correct.

 

I have about 4 months left on both of my 6 month's subs.

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Come to think of it, I don't think that I've ever met anyone from New York that I like. I had a New Yorker for a boss once, he ran 3 different aliases, ripped off a heap of clients and was generally lazy and useless. He also thought he was smarter than he actually was.

 

Oh, and Voidstar is a series of linked rooms you imbecile.

 

Lol at Voidstar being a series of linked rooms. Yeah, if your definition of "rooms" include large programmed spaces with shuttle landing docks and pits and bridges and cargo bays.

 

Lol and nice anecdote about New York. Couldn't think of anything better since I'm styling all over you in this thread?

 

"Two guys run straight into each other at exactly the same time in a small enclosed room with nobody else in a Warzone and attempt to 1-shot each other at exactly the same time". ROFL good luck with that buddy.

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Bioware, you forget key quotes in the original post which started this forum by Cheezfriend, so don't pretend you are sticking by the original post. First:

 

"2. Most of the APAC/Oceanic community are in favour for merging servers together by either consolidating all three servers into a "super server" or allowing us to transfer/merge to a nominated APAC server. -Cheezfriend."

 

Seems easy enough to comprehend. Secondly:

 

"2.Do something about the very low populations on Master Dar'Nala and Gav Daragon. People want to stay on the APAC servers and are more than happy to merge to Dalborra as they have the strongest population."

 

Again, simple stuff. Thirdly, he raises an extremely good point:

 

"As consumers and gamers we have choice. We choose to suport Bioware by paying a subscription fee, however we have the choice to walk away or move onto something else. We have chosen to stick by Bioware and support this great game. Bioware, how about you support us?"

 

You should have come to the conclusion we would LIKE a 'Super-server' in which all servers are merged together. There is no harm in trying. Spend that money you're taking from us rather than turning it into robbery in order to involuntarily transfer characters. But you didn't come to that conclusion.

 

You made a poor choice which has to be amended.

 

Lastly, one piece of information you have as well chosen to ignore: the theme is saving our servers.

 

You're not doing this. You're destroying them.

Edited by WizardsDestiny
New idea.
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Iheartnyc. Just take it to your thread you felt that you needed to make.

Your just arguing for the sake of arguing and angering people in this thread who are more worried about community than ping.

 

Will do as soon as people stop spreading misinformation about ping in an effort to get others to quit the game. And from the sounds of it, the angry ones already unsubbed.

 

My message regarding "playability" is directed at those on the fence who are debating whether it's worth a shot. They've stuck it out this long, they at least deserve to have all the facts (and not just angry sentiment) in making a decision that will impact how they might spend another couple hundred hours of their lives. And if you're against that, then how is this "fair" to the community.

 

And if my posts convince at least 1 person to give US servers a shot, and they end up enjoying the game for many more months after today, then my mission is accomplished.

Edited by iheartnyc
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Will do as soon as people stop spreading misinformation about ping in an effort to get others to quit the game.

 

I am in no way shape or form trying to get people to quit, you posted something which in practice is inaccurate, not false, inaccurate, I felt the need to let you know.

As I said a bit ago for anyone that generally quests the difference wont be AS noticeable yet PVP and raiders will notice and be affected.

 

That is not misinformation its fact.

 

You yourself said by increasing the ping it also increases lag spikes, and they will occur more frequently, I am guessing that you don't see that as an effect on players?

Edited by Nommaz
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Lol at Voidstar being a series of linked rooms. Yeah, if your definition of "rooms" include large programmed spaces with shuttle landing docks and pits and bridges and cargo bays.

 

Lol and nice anecdote about New York. Couldn't think of anything better since I'm styling all over you in this thread?

 

"Two guys run straight into each other at exactly the same time in a small enclosed room with nobody else in a Warzone and attempt to 1-shot each other at exactly the same time". ROFL good luck with that buddy.

 

You're not "styling" over anybody. You've already established that you troll because your father didn't love you. You're an obnoxious little American Keyboard Warrior who is trolling here because you need the attention that your father gave your brother instead of you. You're not contributing to anything apart from highlighting why we don't want to be on an US server.

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I am in no way shape or form trying to get people to quit, you posted something which in practice is inaccurate, not false inaccurate, I felt the need to let you know.

As I said a bit ago for anyone that generally quests the difference wont be AS noticeable yet PVP and raiders will notice and be affected.

 

That is not misinformation its fact.

 

You yourself said by increasing the pig it also increases lag spikes, and they will occur more frequently, I am guessing that you don't see that as an effect on players?

 

In the worst case yeah the game will be unplayable for certain players. And that's not due to ping, but because your local ISP does not route well to the US West Coast. In the best case, an APAC player will see a disadvantage of roughly 0.15 seconds with minimal lag-spikes.

 

And where were you, when over a dozen other posters made flat-out unqualified statements that the game and PVP is unplayable on US servers? Why do you feel the need to "let me know", while you let others slide in promoting the falsehood that the game will be unplayable across the board? Is there an agenda here maybe?

 

In confounds me that people are getting away with spreading lies on this thread, while accusing EA of doing the same.

Edited by iheartnyc
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In the worst case yeah the game will be unplayable for certain players. In the best case, an APAC player will see a disadvantage of roughly 0.15 seconds with minimal lag-spikes.

 

And where were you, when over a dozen other posters made flat-out unqualified statements that the game and PVP is unplayable on US servers? Why do you feel the need to "let me know", while you let others slide in promoting the falsehood that the game will be unplayable across the board? Is there an agenda here maybe?

 

Another philosopher on the forums come to enlighten us on what's right for our community....awesome.

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In the worst case yeah the game will be unplayable for certain players. And that's not due to ping, but because your local ISP does not route well to the US West Coast. In the best case, an APAC player will see a disadvantage of roughly 0.15 seconds with minimal lag-spikes.

 

And where were you, when over a dozen other posters made flat-out unqualified statements that the game and PVP is unplayable on US servers? Why do you feel the need to "let me know", while you let others slide in promoting the falsehood that the game will be unplayable across the board? Is there an agenda here maybe?

 

In confounds me that people are getting away with spreading lies on this thread, while accusing EA of doing the same.

 

 

I find the US pvp easily playable. Finished near the top. hardly noticed any lag (certainly wasnt gamebreaking.)

(and no before you all ask, i am not american lol.)

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