https://www.strawpoll.me/17185877

Just wanted to gather some statistics. It seems forum is pretty dead by now, but nonetheless.

I want to ask something all of you, who chose "Space Batman" ending.

What was your motivation? Could it be that, since you didn't defect to Republic, some of you still can, theoretically speaking, become good loyal soldier of the Empire if it was more like Galactic Empire from OT i.e. without all of this Sith infighting, for example, etc?

I'm trying to separate full-blown traitors from just misguided or dissapointed, who could be possibly turned back.

My Agent has always been a passionate supporter of the Empire.... the people and planets of the Empire, not its Sith-heavy power structure. He went "Space Batman" at the end of the story so that he could continue to aid them without the restrictions and game-playing waste of resources imposed by most Sith.

Yes, in Jedi Under Siege, he also chose to continue to support the Empire, because those are the people for whom he's given his life.

Traitor? Depends on your viewpoint.

My Agent has always been a passionate supporter of the Empire.... the people and planets of the Empire, not its Sith-heavy power structure. He went "Space Batman" at the end of the story so that he could continue to aid them without the restrictions and game-playing waste of resources imposed by most Sith.

 

Yes, in Jedi Under Siege, he also chose to continue to support the Empire, because those are the people for whom he's given his life.

 

Traitor? Depends on your viewpoint.

My point of view is: Grand Moff Odile Vaiken didn't reflect on "how bad are those Sith, I'm suffering working for them!" or something like that. He just did his job no matter what obstacles, without remorse and overthinking - and exactly because of him and people like him (Malavai Quinn/Pierce(arguably)) the Empire made its greatest comeback after humiliating loss at Great Hyperspace War. Those people are the backbone of the Sith Empire - without them it will collapse. Maybe they need on their places within the Empire to actually compensate Sith nature and its shortcomings for the good of the Empire.

And then there is Cipher Nine - the best of the best of Imperial citizens, the secret weapon of Imperial dominance in the Galaxy. And he is, judging by my poll, either just deserting from ranks at best or even defecting to ENEMY at worst. So yeah, in my eyes even pretty neutral "ghost" ending is kinda treacherous - like dude, ***, you are supposed to be that backbone of the Empire, I was just talking about.

Though I do appreciate your choice to stay with the Empire at the very end of things - I guess its the best I could hope for. Don't think that I'm a masochist who like to be degraded and downgraded in career by superiors, but that's just how I percieve things: if every valuable asset of the Empire will "think by himself" there will be like no Empire at all, because it is comprised of valuable assets and talented individuals - and it is very important, crucial for survival of the Empire that those talents remain loyal to their superiors. Without maintaining the power structure and sense of subordinance there will be no country: trust me, I... As a Russian myself, definitely know a s*it-ton about it.

I've done three endings, Hand of Jadus, Defector and Space Batman.

Out of all of them, the one I consider to be my "main" agent went Space Batman. In my head cannon, he joined the military for personal reasons, signed up with Intelligence as soon as he could, then got screwed over by the Empire and the Republic (which by this stage in his life, would have been at least twice). So he was kinda

As for Iokath and Ossus, he still sided with the Empire. Why? Well, better the devil you know than the devil you don't, but he would have preferred to tell them both to get stuffed.

Since my Agent's Chiss, the backstory/endings I have for her so far since I've not started KotET/FT yet are:

Chiss:

Agent:

When I get around to starting KotET/FT with her, I'll probably go with what choices feel right for her.

Could a description of what each ending is be offered for those of us who aren’t completely sure what they entail?

Hand of Jadus/ Sith Intelligence: This one doesn't actually require the Act 1 choice. If you kill Kothe in Act 2 and give the Black Codex to the Sith when they show up, they flatter you and promise you'll be rewarded later. Keeper is predictably furious.

Double Agent: Keep Kothe alive, which I think also requires keeping Wheel and the Twi'lek sniper alive in Act 2. Kothe reappears briefly on Corellia. You can tell him about the Black Codex, or not tell him anything, but he'll still show up on the space station and kill the two Sith. You can give him the Black Codex, however, I think alignment has something to do with it too - if you aren't LS he won't offer you a place in the SIS. Rather than confess to treason, you have to make up some reason you bungled the op to Keeper after.

'Batman': Kill Kothe, either in Act 2 or on the station. Kill the Sith if Kothe's not there. If they're both there, you can lie and say the Jedi sent in a strike team to kill the Sith. Give the black codex to Keeper and he will use it to erase your info from imperial records, making you a ghost that intervenes where necessary.

Loyal Officer: This one wasn't very well conceived. Kill Kothe / the Sith. Don't give the Codex to Keeper, and don't disappear. If you retrieved the Codex, it's implied you kept it but don't trust Keeper with it. This means he can't wipe your info, so you stay on the books, but Keeper predicts you've probably doomed yourself. Alternatively, you can destroy the Black Codex. I don't think you can do this in front of the Sith, but you can in front of Kothe. I think you can tell Keeper you destroyed it, and why, something like 'no one should have this information'. He is annoyed by this choice, but less so than if you gave it to the Sith.

SCORPIO highly approves of any ending where you keep the black codex, even if you give it to Keeper after [the comps aren't in that convo]. Kaliyo, OTOH, highly approves of destroying the Codex. The rest of your comps mildly approve or disapprove of the choices depending on their idiosyncrasies. I don't think anyone, even Temple, particularly cares if you give the Codex to Kothe, but she does disapprove if you then agree to become a double agent. I don't think any of your comps actually agree with that choice.

Hmm. My choices don’t mesh with any of those. I killed Jadus, kept Kothe alive, kept the Codex for myself, and told Keeper (former Watcher Two, not the Minister/former Keeper) I’d go wherever I think I’m needed.

IIRC, the choices on that last one (she asked what I’d be doing while Intelligence was rebuilding their operations) were:

1. “Watch and see”

2. “I’ll go where I’m needed”

3. “What are your orders?”

Hmm. My choices don’t mesh with any of those. I killed Jadus, kept Kothe alive, kept the Codex for myself, and told Keeper (former Watcher Two, not the Minister/former Keeper) I’d go wherever I think I’m needed.

 

IIRC, the choices on that last one (she asked what I’d be doing while Intelligence was rebuilding their operations) were:

1. “Watch and see”

2. “I’ll go where I’m needed”

3. “What are your orders?”

This is the loyal officer ending.You can tell because of option 3. The choices you get at the end here are basically the same for all of them, other than 3, which changes a bit if you gave the codex to the Sith iirc.

I honestly prefer destroying the codex. At first it seems like the obligatory sop to player freedom since the ending is so lousy and generic, but I think it fits the theme of the class story better. The Star Cabal is based on the idea that information is power. Hunter's last words are that you're responsible for the Codex's secrets now. Your mission is explicitly to retrieve the codex, not just kill the Star Cabal.

As an Agent, your whole mission is based around prizing secret info, which is why the Star Cabal makes such a good villain, and why the Sith consistently throw a wench in the class story [by showing up and wrecking all the subtle plans I.I makes]. After painstakingly revealing the conspiracy, unravelling your brainwashing, and reaching the endboss, you finally get the biggest secret stash in the game...and you destroy it. I felt it was very satisfying revenge against the Star Cabal, Keeper, and I.I in general for what they did to you.

Perhaps if you could actually do something with the black codex if you kept it, it would be a more compelling option, but it never comes up again. By not giving it to Keeper you basically waste its only purpose, which is to delete information, not use it. This is more the fault of the expansions for not building on it than the class story, of course.

*Note: When I say 'keeper', I'm referring to the Minister of Intelligence, not Shara.

I like how many of you are always choose just to ignore Pub part of it at all. "my revenge to I.I, Keeper and Star Cabal" - hey, what about those pieces of trash who actually USED that programming on you for their own gain? I mean pub scum - Kothe and Hunter? To them you do not have any complaints, I guess?

Good god, that's why I'm not playing IA - it's like being marked and stamped from the very beginning as Kallus-like traitorous scum: because so many of IAs choose to somehow **** on Empire one way or another, while those choices are the most famous and discussed in fandom. And their collective glory enormously contributes to make the very image of double agent-IA default. I don't care about my own choices in story if by other players I will be, by default, viewed as one of Pub scum, anarchists or something like that. "Oh, you are an agent, right? Ha, cool, yeah, **** the Empire and *****, right, duuude? :D" - maybe I'm overthinking, but still.

Hand of Jadus/ Sith Intelligence: This one doesn't actually require the Act 1 choice. If you kill Kothe in Act 2 and give the Black Codex to the Sith when they show up, they flatter you and promise you'll be rewarded later. Keeper is predictably furious.

 

Double Agent: Keep Kothe alive, which I think also requires keeping Wheel and the Twi'lek sniper alive in Act 2. Kothe reappears briefly on Corellia. You can tell him about the Black Codex, or not tell him anything, but he'll still show up on the space station and kill the two Sith. You can give him the Black Codex, however, I think alignment has something to do with it too - if you aren't LS he won't offer you a place in the SIS. Rather than confess to treason, you have to make up some reason you bungled the op to Keeper after.

 

'Batman': Kill Kothe, either in Act 2 or on the station. Kill the Sith if Kothe's not there. If they're both there, you can lie and say the Jedi sent in a strike team to kill the Sith. Give the black codex to Keeper and he will use it to erase your info from imperial records, making you a ghost that intervenes where necessary.

 

Loyal Officer: This one wasn't very well conceived. Kill Kothe / the Sith. Don't give the Codex to Keeper, and don't disappear. If you retrieved the Codex, it's implied you kept it but don't trust Keeper with it. This means he can't wipe your info, so you stay on the books, but Keeper predicts you've probably doomed yourself. Alternatively, you can destroy the Black Codex. I don't think you can do this in front of the Sith, but you can in front of Kothe. I think you can tell Keeper you destroyed it, and why, something like 'no one should have this information'. He is annoyed by this choice, but less so than if you gave it to the Sith.

 

SCORPIO highly approves of any ending where you keep the black codex, even if you give it to Keeper after [the comps aren't in that convo]. Kaliyo, OTOH, highly approves of destroying the Codex. The rest of your comps mildly approve or disapprove of the choices depending on their idiosyncrasies. I don't think anyone, even Temple, particularly cares if you give the Codex to Kothe, but she does disapprove if you then agree to become a double agent. I don't think any of your comps actually agree with that choice.

You don't need to actually kill Arden Kothe to get the Loyal Officer or "Batman" endings, you just need to refuse to give him the Black Codex.

And although you don't need to side with Jadus to get the Sith Intelligence ending, you do if you wanted to get the "Hand of Jadus" version of it. There is actually quite a lot of unique dialogue for the Pro-Jadus version of the Sith Intelligence ending.

I like how many of you are always choose just to ignore Pub part of it at all. "my revenge to I.I, Keeper and Star Cabal" - hey, what about those pieces of trash who actually USED that programming on you for their own gain? I mean pub scum - Kothe and Hunter? To them you do not have any complaints, I guess?

Depending on your story, you get sufficient revenge on the Republic in Act 2. Blowing up the Black Codex doesn't have quite the same effect on the Republic that it does on the Empire - you can do it in front of Kothe, but he just shrugs. Whereas the Minister was depending on you bringing that back, so he's pretty peeved.

The Agent story, more than the others, shows you just how crappy the Empire is if you aren't Sith [and the Sith stories aren't exactly complimentary either]. As the Watcher X hallucination pointed out, you did your job well, so they mentally enslaved you. Note that all the endings for Act 1 lead you to that same place, even if you went Hand of Jadus.

I find it a bit baffling to meet someone who thinks Kallus would be the villain in the scenario you describe. For the purpose of this game, that would make Quinn the ideal Imperial patriot, because he [mostly] obeys every insane order he receives.

You don't need to actually kill Arden Kothe to get the Loyal Officer or "Batman" endings, you just need to refuse to give him the Black Codex.

 

And although you don't need to side with Jadus to get the Sith Intelligence ending, you do if you wanted to get the "Hand of Jadus" version of it. There is actually quite a lot of unique dialogue for the Pro-Jadus version of the Sith Intelligence ending.

Good to know. Speaking of Hand of Jadus, on Yavin 4 during the wrap-up scenes, Marr calls the PC over to tell them Lana's the new minister of Sith Intelligence. For most characters, that's pretty irrelevant, your choices are

1) Congrats!

2) class-story specific flavor text [sIs get to whine about not being consulted]

3) Congrats! [Lie]

If you pick the third option, Marr will wait for Lana to leave and then ask what you really think. The Agent has some unique dialogue here, and I'm curious if there's unique dialogue for Hands of Jadus who gave the Codex to the Sith at the end. I took it through with a Rattataki Agent who blew up the Codex, and all Marr said was that the minister of Sith intelligence has to be a Sith, and a human more generally. Is that the same for everyone?

Good to know. Speaking of Hand of Jadus, on Yavin 4 during the wrap-up scenes, Marr calls the PC over to tell them Lana's the new minister of Sith Intelligence. For most characters, that's pretty irrelevant, your choices are

 

1) Congrats!

2) class-story specific flavor text [sIs get to whine about not being consulted]

3) Congrats! [Lie]

 

If you pick the third option, Marr will wait for Lana to leave and then ask what you really think. The Agent has some unique dialogue here, and I'm curious if there's unique dialogue for Hands of Jadus who gave the Codex to the Sith at the end. I took it through with a Rattataki Agent who blew up the Codex, and all Marr said was that the minister of Sith intelligence has to be a Sith, and a human more generally. Is that the same for everyone?

I suspect not. So far as I know, the last Hand of Jadus specific dialogue option is in the intro to Makeb.

Ooh, on the third option there, do I get the option of “she’s just another filthy human”? (Asking for my SI, she considers humans to be a plague on the galaxy that needs to be contained/controlled)

Regrettably not. I did it with an LS Zabrak SI and of all of them, the petulant 2nd option was the only one that sounded like him. You do that while Lana is standing there, btw, but she doesn't respond to you second-guessing her as the DC's pick.