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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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I am thoroughly disappointed with BioWare's handling of SGRA. Restricting it to one planet, sticking it behind both a level wall and a pay wall and not including romanceable is just insulting. I was fine with BioWare's poor handling of other aspects of the game. That whole mess with the oceanic release, the sharding of areas, the lack of basic mmo features such as chat bubbles, the annoying restrictions the game used to have (alignment restriction of colour crystals for example), the gambling machine that is the cartel market, I could put up with all that, but this is pushing things too far. Not only does it not give me hope for the future of the game, it makes me question the future of BioWare as a company and all their games. Can we expect the same sort of treatment in DA3? ME4?

 

Remember, this is not far-superior BioWare Edmonton. This is totally inferior BioWare Austin. They came into existence only to handle SWTOR. They did not make and are not making and Dragon Age or Mass Effect Games. Even though the Mass Effect ending was handled as poorly as all of SWTOR (Space piloting? NAH) BioWare Austin has only messed up SWTOR and after this steaming pile, I am sure EA will only allow them to keep functioning to maintain SWTOR, at least until it becomes too unprofitable. BioWare Edmonton has always been open to SGR's, but BioWare Austin has dragged their feet for a year and are now putting in only enough SGR content to say there is SOME SGR content because EA is forcing them to do it. EA will kill a studio at the drop of a hat, so you can expect BioWare Austin to die when SWTOR ends as fast as they will delete these posts as soon as a forum mod sees them Monday morning.

Edited by Lillark
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I've been thinking about this and I don't believe the Makeb "romances" can be as in depth as the non-companion ones in game now.

 

From what I understand, none of the Makeb content is class and character exclusive...so all dialog choices will come down to a roll for up to 4 people in a group. The non-companion romances used in your example had dialog exclusive to an instance and the owner of it. It would be kind of odd if four players were romancing the same NPC over the course of Makeb's story.

 

So, it has to be like some of the shared flirt opportunities we have now with random NPCs and will be subject to a roll if you are in a group, which aren't deep at all.

 

Though I share your misgivings on how Bioware will implement these (Mr. Gonzalez is convinced that throw-away [Flirt]s are the same as full-blown romances, after all), it could be possible that the Makeb story lines, while note class specific, could be placed in "owner only" instances, like class stories are. Personally, if I had the chance, I would have done something like that, as it allows for more of a sense of "ownership" when it comes to the choices and actions taken on Makeb, rather than just "Oh, I lost the roll, guess we have to kill this guy now".

 

If our (ahaha - excuse me) "romance" NPCs are placed in these instances, then there's less issue of leveling or questing as a group and missing those options and, of course, it adds to the sense of uniqueness.

 

Pity that that's probably not how they've done it though :/

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My agent is definitely polyamorous. :o

 

People generally ask that question when it comes to gay marriage in general, although in real life I think there's certainly a large number of social/tax/economical issues that are relevant.

 

I think in the context of the game, they just like to have people make meaningful choices, and not be able to marry every companion and NPC. What are the odds that every romanceable companion in the game is totally cool with sharing? :cool:

 

What are the odds of every romanceable companion being SGR?

 

I thought the idea was more that people wanted to dictate how their own story plays out and less on what is most likely.

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(Mr. Gonzalez is convinced that throw-away [Flirt]s are the same as full-blown romances, after all)

 

You've slipped this line in a couple of your posts and I wanted to address it as I think it's misconceived.

 

Here's the background of what I'm about to state, wrapped in spoiler tags for brevity's sake:

 

 

 

Hi folks, as a reminder, please remember to stay on topic in this thread. While the topic started off as requesting clarifications for SGRs, it seems that it has also become a destination to discuss possible ways of implementing them in the game. We have officially confirmed that SGRs will be in the game and this will not change. However, we have directed any civil discussions that do not agree with the inclusion here. Please also remember to be respectful of one another, despite differences in opinions. Any posts that are considered off-topic or in violation of our forum rules will be removed and actioned upon, if necessary. Thank you.

 

Your response:

So you are putting in same-gender companion romances, then, you simply aren't going to tell us yet?

 

His reply:

I wrote "SGRs". This echoes Jeff Hickman's words from his blog here.

"Secondly, I want to reveal today that we are adding SGR with some NPCs on Makeb and do intend on pursuing more SGR options in the future. More details to come!"

 

Let's get this thread back on topic please.

 

 

 

He referred to SGRs, not SGRAs, and I feel a certain amount of misunderstanding has arisen due to that truncated acronym. Some of the non-companion flirts result in a bit of fade-to-black action and I think that the use of 'SGRs' was, in this case, intended to refer to that (they're not arcs precisely, after all, but could roughly be described as romances).

 

Here's where I think the issue is: most of us (myself included) largely see no difference between the acronyms 'SGR' and 'SGRA' except, obviously, for the letter 'A'. When I use the term it's to refer to the companion story arcs and whilst I can't speak for anyone else I do suspect that most people consider 'SGRAs' and 'SGRs' to mean the same thing: same gender companion romance arcs.

 

I've started using the acronym SGFPs (same gender flirt prompts) to differentiate between the two. If Mr Gonzales were to address his position on the matter I suspect he'd clarify his use of 'SGRs' in the context of the comments you're referring to, Tatile, was to refer to non-companion flirt prompts.

 

I respectfully suggest that it's inaccurate to claim his comments mean that he thinks that what you call 'throw-away flirts' are equal to full-fledged companion romances. I likewise suggest that when he referred to SGRs he did so as it was the term being used in the Hickman Update and was referring directly back to that (swapping to a different acronym would have just confused the matter) but that both he and the Hickman Update are referring specifically to SGFPs going in with Makeb, and not that they're intended to be a replacement (or even particularly comparative to) SGRAs.

 

The only one who can clarify what he meant for certain, of course, is JovethGonzales himself.

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I respectfully suggest that it's inaccurate to claim his comments mean that he thinks that what you call 'throw-away flirts' are equal to full-fledged companion romances. I likewise suggest that when he referred to SGRs he did so as it was the term being used in the Hickman Update and was referring directly back to that (swapping to a different acronym would have just confused the matter) but that both he and the Hickman Update are referring specifically to SGFPs going in with Makeb, and not that they're intended to be a replacement (or even particularly comparative to) SGRAs.

 

The only one who can clarify what he meant for certain, of course, is JovethGonzales himself.

 

I kind of expected him to immediately pop up, like you had said Beetlejuice three times.

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Well, I can tell you this, and I believe this has been brought up in the thread before, but when I've seen people encounter npc romances in groups, the romance option just doesn't trigger. You can't roll to win to sleep with Darth Lachris. It won't happen.

 

I do recall seeing a [Flirt] with some male NPCs while leveling an Agent with a friend who was also playing a female toon. None of us took the option but it was there.

 

Or do you mean the options appear but nothing happens if someone selects them?

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You've slipped this line in a couple of your posts and I wanted to address it as I think it's misconceived.

 

I do not know if the "romances" Mr. Gonzalez and Mr. Hickman talk about are the one-night-stands or the throw-away [Flirt]s or whether they are fully scripted, in-depth, multi-conversation romances, but I fully expect they are talking about the former, rather than the latter. I might be misunderstanding their intentions, but if they are referring to the former [Flirt]s under the header of "Same Gender Romance (Arcs)" rather than qualifying that these are only [Flirt] options, then forgive me for offering my opinion that Mr. Gonzalez (and then, by extension, Mr. Hickman) labour under the assumption that they are one in the same. I have been remiss in dressing my opinion as fact. Believe me, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, but I am going to have to wait until "spring".

 

(Also, I thought I was on-topic, what with asking for a clarification of what Mr. Gonzalez was saying, but apparently not!)

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What are the odds of every romanceable companion being SGR?

 

In this game, zero. :D I'm pretty sure their idea was originally to only have a few companions to be SGR compatible, and not necessarily even one for each class.

 

I thought the idea was more that people wanted to dictate how their own story plays out and less on what is most likely.

 

Bioware has made it clear from the beginning in a lot of aspects of the game that they don't agree with that idea (i.e. not allowing any playable races that aren't near-human). I'm rather happy with the more controlled story approach, though I know that many do not care for it and I understand why. I think they could probably draw up some compromise, though.

Edited by chuixupu
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I do recall seeing a [Flirt] with some male NPCs while leveling an Agent with a friend who was also playing a female toon. None of us took the option but it was there.

 

Or do you mean the options appear but nothing happens if someone selects them?

 

Yeah....granted I haven't tried this with every NPC that has a snu snu option, but I know this is the case with Darth Lachris. I'll have to get in a group with the two NPCs in Nar Shadaa and see what happens there.

 

Oops double post.

Edited by chuixupu
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In this game, zero. :D I'm pretty sure their idea was originally to only have a few companions to be SGR compatible, and not necessarily even one for each class.

 

:<

 

I know this is going to sound horribly whiny and I apologise, but that's not fair.

 

And I know it's just a game, but the thing I like about games, particularly MMOs, is that pretty much everyone is placed on the same level; it doesn't matter what you do in real life (unless you're a mathematician*), everyone is, essentially, equal. And I think that's really important, which is why I don't like the fact that female characters have less [Flirt]s or that PvP players feel left out with their small amount of warzones (though I'm still confused about World PvP, I thought that just happened).

 

Ok, weird, whiny rant over.

 

 

*Because they figure out all the curves and stuff.

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Well, it's just my observation....they could always change in whatever way they choose. I could really never see them making all companions have a SGR option (or even have every companion OGR), however, maybe some day they could allow you to make a choice which companion you want to romance in what way. Because at that point, you're playing in the vacuum of your own story arc, it's not the same as making every single companion bisexual. But that sounds incredibly complicated and expensive to program.
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I do not know if the "romances" Mr. Gonzalez and Mr. Hickman talk about are the one-night-stands or the throw-away [Flirt]s or whether they are fully scripted, in-depth, multi-conversation romances, but I fully expect they are talking about the former, rather than the latter. I might be misunderstanding their intentions, but if they are referring to the former [Flirt]s under the header of "Same Gender Romance (Arcs)" rather than qualifying that these are only [Flirt] options, then forgive me for offering my opinion that Mr. Gonzalez (and then, by extension, Mr. Hickman) labour under the assumption that they are one in the same. I have been remiss in dressing my opinion as fact. Believe me, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, but I am going to have to wait until "spring".

 

(Also, I thought I was on-topic, what with asking for a clarification of what Mr. Gonzalez was saying, but apparently not!)

 

...Okay, forget I said a thing.

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...Okay, forget I said a thing.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to sound so snippy :(

 

It's just... I don't know, he just really got under my skin with that "I'll point you to the quotation you've already read and then dismiss your concerns as being off-topic" remark.

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In this game, zero. :D I'm pretty sure their idea was originally to only have a few companions to be SGR compatible, and not necessarily even one for each class.

 

 

 

Bioware has made it clear from the beginning in a lot of aspects of the game that they don't agree with that idea (i.e. not allowing any playable races that aren't near-human). I'm rather happy with the more controlled story approach, though I know that many do not care for it and I understand why. I think they could probably draw up some compromise, though.

 

Well, yeah zero in game for now :p

 

I just see a few problems arising if they don't make every class have a SGR...complaints like "You're forcing me to play this class!"

 

And I wonder if they'll have complaints if every NPC one can flirt with doesn't have a flirt option for everyone. Really, I wouldn't see a problem with it, they could just say everyone can start it off with a flirt, and a lot of people may get shot down.

 

Makes me curious how they plan to implement it in the end. As I'm sure others are curious about it.

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Nice. You seem to see the problem on "this" side. BW has nothting to do with it.

 

What? You don't think that won't be said if SGR Companions are only made available to a couple of classes?

 

If they make it so Jaesa is the only female SGR on the Empire side, people won't be saying "But I want Mako for my BH?" or "But I hate playing SW, I prefere ranged and/or healing!"

 

Edit: Oh. I see the problems from BW side. They should of put in a few SGR companions from the beginning, said screw it we'll spend a bit more, and then they'd likely be saving themselves a lot more headaches.

Edited by SithKoriandr
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You've slipped this line in a couple of your posts and I wanted to address it as I think it's misconceived.

 

He referred to SGRs, not SGRAs, and I feel a certain amount of misunderstanding has arisen due to that truncated acronym. Some of the non-companion flirts result in a bit of fade-to-black action and I think that the use of 'SGRs' was, in this case, intended to refer to that (they're not arcs precisely, after all, but could roughly be described as romances).

 

Here's where I think the issue is: most of us (myself included) largely see no difference between the acronyms 'SGR' and 'SGRA' except, obviously, for the letter 'A'. When I use the term it's to refer to the companion story arcs and whilst I can't speak for anyone else I do suspect that most people consider 'SGRAs' and 'SGRs' to mean the same thing: same gender companion romance arcs.

 

I've started using the acronym SGFPs (same gender flirt prompts) to differentiate between the two. If Mr Gonzales were to address his position on the matter I suspect he'd clarify his use of 'SGRs' in the context of the comments you're referring to, Tatile, was to refer to non-companion flirt prompts.

 

I respectfully suggest that it's inaccurate to claim his comments mean that he thinks that what you call 'throw-away flirts' are equal to full-fledged companion romances. I likewise suggest that when he referred to SGRs he did so as it was the term being used in the Hickman Update and was referring directly back to that (swapping to a different acronym would have just confused the matter) but that both he and the Hickman Update are referring specifically to SGFPs going in with Makeb, and not that they're intended to be a replacement (or even particularly comparative to) SGRAs.

 

The only one who can clarify what he meant for certain, of course, is JovethGonzales himself.

 

This is correct. I was using SGR as anything involved with flirting and romance options in general (however heavy or light they may be). I use SGRA to refer to same gender romance arcs, which means something more in depth than flirting. Hopefully that clears things up from my post.

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This is correct. I was using SGR as anything involved with flirting and romance options in general (however heavy or light they may be). I use SGRA to refer to same gender romance arcs, which means something more in depth than flirting. Hopefully that clears things up from my post.
So with Makeb we're getting the former but not the latter? Have not been following the discussion yesterday, so I may be late to this.
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This is correct. I was using SGR as anything involved with flirting and romance options in general (however heavy or light they may be). I use SGRA to refer to same gender romance arcs, which means something more in depth than flirting. Hopefully that clears things up from my post.

 

So it's only throw-away [Flirt]s on Makeb, then?

 

Ugh, just, well... fine. Whatever. Not sure why I feel let down about this, it was always just going to be throw-away [Flirt]s but... yeah :/

 

I'm going to become a small ball of hate and misery for a while, see you guys in a bit.

 

 

So with Makeb we're getting the former but not the latter? Have not been following the discussion yesterday, so I may be late to this.

 

That's exactly what's he's saying. There's a nagging part of me which says that the straight option will have access to both (because hey! why should straight people feel left out?), but I know I shouldn't feel bitter because I'm supposed to be SO HAPPY that Bioware took over a year to tell us we were getting [Flirt] options which won't lead to anything...

 

ARGH.

 

Soup time.

Edited by Tatile
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This is correct. I was using SGR as anything involved with flirting and romance options in general (however heavy or light they may be). I use SGRA to refer to same gender romance arcs, which means something more in depth than flirting. Hopefully that clears things up from my post.

 

With the Introduction of SGR will we see a more mature story telling? Currently I don't think many people would find the stories overly deep or emotional, with a few exception following a more PG comic book slant of OTT bad guys and conflict which is at both times galaxy spaning and ineffective with no real follow on.

 

Now SGR would hopefully be told in a mature adult way and as such will this be seen in the rest of the story writing?

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That's exactly what's he's saying. There's a nagging part of me which says that the straight option will have access to both (because hey! why should straight people feel left out?), but I know I shouldn't feel bitter because I'm supposed to be SO HAPPY that Bioware took over a year to tell us we were getting [Flirt] options which won't lead to anything...

Yeah, feel the same way, been expecting a little more, although I appreciate them starting with something, rather than do nothing. :( I just hope this "more infos soon" (Hickman) will include a few more details as to when and how we can expect more, otherwise this is a little.... sparse. :rolleyes:

 

With the Introduction of SGR will we see a more mature story telling? Currently I don't think many people would find the stories overly deep or emotional, with a few exception following a more PG comic book slant of OTT bad guys and conflict which is at both times galaxy spaning and ineffective with no real follow on. Now SGR would hopefully be told in a mature adult way and as such will this be seen in the rest of the story writing?
I would hope so. If some of the same writers get involved with writing possible new chars, I don't know though. I like some writers' input more than others. Since TOR is rated "T", as far as sexuality is concerned, we won't be getting to see more, certainly, but a bit more maturity in the writing would be great. I would consider drama, jealousy and all that "mature", in case that was unclear.
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Yeah, feel the same way, been expecting a little more, although I appreciate them starting with something, rather than do nothing. :( I just hope this "more infos soon" (Hickman) will include a few more details as to when and how we can expect more, otherwise this is a little.... sparse. :rolleyes:

 

I would hope so. If some of the same writers get involved with writing possible new chars, I don't know though. I like some writers' input more than others. Since TOR is rated "T", as far as sexuality is concerned, we won't be getting to see more, certainly, but a bit more maturity in the writing would be great. I would consider drama, jealousy and all that "mature", in case that was unclear.

 

As much as I'd like for Mr. Hickman's "more info soon" statement to be that Mr. Gonzalez and Ms. Berryman will be engaging with us in this thread about our concerns and specifically covering the same-gender companion romances (basically all the information that would have been great to have in the year just past, i.e. there will be delays, this is awful, we're sorry), I don't expect that to happen. It's more than likely the "more info soon" is going to be "You get ONE same-sex [Flirt] for a male NPC and ONE same-sex [Flirt] for a female NPC, because then they're equal, isn't that nice? Oh, and opposite-sex [Flirt]s number elventy-billion."

 

I'd like to think "mature" writing means "mature" themes - like relationship problems, life problems and that sort of thing, rather than the sensationalized "mature" which is sex!, in great and explicit detail.

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As much as I'd like for Mr. Hickman's "more info soon" statement to be that Mr. Gonzalez and Ms. Berryman will be engaging with us in this thread about our concerns and specifically covering the same-gender companion romances (basically all the information that would have been great to have in the year just past, i.e. there will be delays, this is awful, we're sorry), I don't expect that to happen. It's more than likely the "more info soon" is going to be "You get ONE same-sex [Flirt] for a male NPC and ONE same-sex [Flirt] for a female NPC, because then they're equal, isn't that nice? Oh, and opposite-sex [Flirt]s number elventy-billion."

I was thinking ( I may be wrong though) that this "more info soon" was referring to the part of the statement that said they were planning for more SGR options in the future. My expectation would definitely be that if Makeb has only flirts, actual SGRAs would be implemented later, possibly with old/new companions, possibly with NPCs, depending on where they're going with SGRs in general. Anything less than that is not something I would be content with.

 

A propos soup. As chance would have it, I am making soup right now, it's been cooking for over an hour. How very fitting. :rolleyes:

Edited by Lent_San
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