It's a no brainier really. Most of the changes to balance shadows do not make sense.

1. Lamabste makes no sense in PVP or PVE.

2. For a class whose gameplay and survival relied on kiting, jumping in and out of range, and slight off heals, mental defense is just out of place. If they wanted to increase survivability, they could have just kept containment as it was. Removing containment and adding mental defense is an inherent contradiction in their vision for the class.

Since focused insight is not that powerful a heal in PVP, the argument about adding mental defense doesn't seem valid to me. If required, something like an increased crit chance of dots while stunned, or increased (say 100% increased) healing from focused insight while stunned is a lot more intuitive. Especially for shadows, since we have no other powerful heals when out of stun. Containment is a lot better. With the current state of burst in PVP, a 30 % DR for a light armor class is nothing. Still, this is one of the better changes.

3. Crush spirit is uselss in PVP, especially since we have an execute. Its better to have talents that are useful in both PVP and PVE.

4. Needless to mention about other shadow strike and project related changes.

I have a feeling they were constrained by time for 2.0. In which case, any word from them on whether they are making changes would be much appreciated.

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

Austin: Yes and no. If your measure of Assassin DPS is parses on a training dummy, you WILL see lower numbers than most other DPS specs. But allow me to put this into context in terms of what Assassins are “missing” compared to all other specs. I’ve color-coded “what’s missing” when fighting a training dummy based on severity (green < light green < brown < red).

 

Sorcerer-Lightning No armor debuff present

Sorcerer-Madness No armor debuff present

Assassin-Deception No Assassinate; no armor debuff present; no Sith Executioner

Assassin-Madness No Assassinate; no armor debuff present; no Bloodletting

Marauder-Annihilation No Vicious Throw; no armor debuff present

Marauder-Carnage No armor debuff present

Marauder-Rage No Vicious Throw; no armor debuff present

Juggernaut-Vengeance Nothing missing - Optimal DPS

Juggernaut-Rage No Vicious Throw

Operative-Concealment No armor debuff present

Operative-Lethality No armor debuff present; no Devouring Microbes

Sniper-Marksmanship No Takedown (also not benefiting from 4pc set bonus); No Headshot

Sniper-Engineering No Takedown (also not benefiting from 4pc set bonus)

Sniper-Lethality No Devouring Microbes

Mercenary-Arsenal Nothing missing - Optimal DPS

Mercenary-Pyrotech No armor debuff present; no Burnout

Powertech-Pyrotech No armor debuff present; no Burnout

Powertech-AdvPrototype No armor debuff present

 

There’s a good deal of additional context that can be added to these parses against training dummies, but I hope this clearly demonstrates how Assassin DPS has THE MOST to gain when switching from a simulated fight to a real fight.

 

Furthermore, I must mention that when we do our internal playtests against real enemies with real group conditions, Assassins are in fact hitting our DPS targets. Our tests aren’t perfect, however, and we don’t test every fight or scenario with every spec, so we will be looking forward to seeing the results players provide for us. If things really aren’t looking good for Assassins, we won’t hesitate to make the necessary adjustments.

In other words, we tried this on some trash mobs and it worked fine!!! Derp math is super hard!

Ok. Can someone answer me a couple of things.

Phasewalk-

Why?.... Just why?!!!! I have removed it from my belt and put in my brand spanking new pet that I got for early purchase because I use the pet far more often.

So, Question #1 has anyone gotten any actual real use out of this ability in PvP or PvE on a regular basis during a fight? (Datacron hunting and the "Oh, I used it once really well last Tuesday" does not count)

DPS

Okay, check me on this. For 2.0-

Shadows/Assassians are now officially Tanks that can't take a hit or DPS that can't deal damage. But, we sure look cooler as we're preparing to face-plant so 2.0's an improvement in the minds of the developers.

So, Question #2 do I have that correct? Because it's certainly been feeling that way on my Shadow since the "improvements" have come online.

Phasewalk is a great tool for pvp. Especially when it comes to defense duty in warzones like Civil War.

But we're already very strong when it comes to defense duty. And a teleport really doesn't suit the star wars setting. I can forgive the Rakata tech on Belsavis, but only because Belsavis is such a big, boring planet. I'd rather have seen some new AoE... like the one they hinted at in some vid, so long ago?

Also, because it bears repeating; please revert the changes to balance! Thank you.

Saturday bump.

Could we please have another word on this? I've yet to meet anyone who likes these new changes. Most people I've talked to in game too feels that the new Balance spec is a broken shadow of its former self. I think I've seen two Balance Shadows in WZs, and not to be rude, but those two people cannot play. With such a heavy AoE spec they do not make any numbers at all. If you changed the playstyle of Balance so that it would be easier to play, well... Bad players will always be bad unless they take time and effort to learn, and for some learning comes easier than for others.

You did the same with relics in pvp. You said something silly in the lines of "good players will obliterate bad players because they use relics"... is that the fault of the game or the players? You can't keep adapting the entire game in an attempt to equalize everything. Good players will -always- obliterate bad players. Lowering the "skillcap" does nothing but make the game more boring.

I'll pop in again on this thread and say I'd like to see Balance Shadows back the way things were. I still like to do shadow strike in my rotation, but I dont think it's as effective as things used to be. Force In Balance seems to cost more force when using now. I kinda miss the old FiB of it costing less and hitting 3 enemies.... If you think people want more AoE then make it a skill point upgrade to FiB to raise the force cost to hit 2 more enemies. I want to remain a happy Balance Shadow. It's who my character is!

And that Phase Walk needs to be replaced with a dps ability... please? Let me double project if sentinels can double saber throw.

Phasewalk is a great tool for pvp. Especially when it comes to defense duty in warzones like Civil War.

 

But we're already very strong when it comes to defense duty. And a teleport really doesn't suit the star wars setting. I can forgive the Rakata tech on Belsavis, but only because Belsavis is such a big, boring planet. I'd rather have seen some new AoE... like the one they hinted at in some vid, so long ago?

 

Also, because it bears repeating; please revert the changes to balance! Thank you.

So.... One guy out of how many people who play this game? And only for PvP in one arena.

And even he doesn't even like the power.

Wow. Just. Wow. No offense or anything but. Well. Most people actually have to try for that level of fail.

And, you know, it's really a huge shame too because there are some really good things that came with 2.0 and for the Consular as well. I mean, they brought Holiday back- that was awesome but, did they really have to bend Shadows over the table like this?

And that Phase Walk needs to be replaced with a dps ability... please? Let me double project if sentinels can double saber throw.

Lol, they don't even want balance shadows to use project, do you think they will give us double project ?

Joking aside, its a great idea. Some kind of area project (area rock throw) or an double saber channeled aoe (like the one in video) would be nice. I could even live with phasewalk if the other changes were not so bad.

Getting back to balance shadow, recap of some of the counterarguments to the ones made in this blog:

1. Difficulty is not an issue. Even if it is, there needs to be a variety in skill caps and you need to interest players of all types.

2. Maybe DPS nerfs are ok (since they get balanced out in the long run), but changes in playstyle are definitely not ok.

3. Balance shadows need to feel like shadows. From your blog:

Worse, it wasn’t necessary. We’re fully capable of providing the same damage boost to players without requiring them to master additional gameplay.

This generic argument will be valid to reduce any class to just one or two skills. Its particularly not a convincing argument when it changes the fundamental feel of the spec.

Hoping you guys are taking notice. Looking forward to a reworked and better balance spec

Lol, they don't even want balance shadows to use project, do you think they will give us double project ?

Yeah, maybe the name 'double project' was a bad choice lol. Call it "Enhanced Telekenitic Throw" where it hurdles several medium sized rocks into an area or a cone of damage area.

I still use telekinetic throw as a balance shadow. While project is only fun against trash.

Yeah, maybe the name 'double project' was a bad choice lol. Call it "Enhanced Telekenitic Throw" where it hurdles several medium sized rocks into an area or a cone of damage area.

 

I still use telekinetic throw as a balance shadow. While project is only fun against trash.

Yep its a good idea. Would be nice to see aoe.

Phase Walk is terrible. It's nigh useless. What would have been useful to all specs would have been a 30m range Shadow Step, which teleports you directly behind the target. Give it a 45 second cooldown. The Shadow Shelter buff can just apply for 10 or 15 seconds to any ally within 5m of the teleport.

I don't think Shadows need another gap closer or more mobility. To be honest, when comparing my 1.7 Balance Shadow to my Lethality Operative, it feels like my Operative is still lacking. Shadows are pretty overpowered, fundamentally (for pvp). Force Shroud is basically a better version of the CC-breaker, if used wisely. Force Speed is the best ability when it comes to mobility (agent roll is nice but it cannot really be used as a gap closer, it's just an escape tool and a tool for objectives). Force Wave is a nice knockback; the middle ground between commando's concussion charge and guardians force push.

The only thing we lack is AoE. Sure, Balance Shadow's Force in Balance was buffed (unnecessarily so. It was one of our strongest single-target attacks, having it hit 3 targets was a luxury. Anything more is just plain retarded. I get that smash hits 5 targets, but smash has a shorter radius and requires the knight to be in the fray). Whirling Blow is pathetic, even with Lambaste. What I wouldn't give for a melee version of Death from Above.

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

Austin: Changing the way Madness Assassins play was not an issue we took or take lightly. Changing numbers is a big enough deal for some players – changing gameplay is a huge deal for even more players.

Consider it a huge deal.

In the case of Shock, its contribution to Madness’s gameplay was effectively the Unearthed Knowledge buff it provided (which is to say, it provided no gameplay). Shock itself wasn’t very powerful or important, and it really didn’t need to be shoe-horned into Madness’s priorities. Additionally, a lot of the Force-management issues Madness Assassins complained about were caused by using Shock, which we encouraged players to do because of a few unnecessary and ill-fitting skills.

What on earth are you talking about? It provided gameplay. We had to use shock every 20s in order to boost our melee damage. The problem with Unearthed Knowledge was, as you've acknowledged, the heavy force cost on Shock... and the fact that the 10% melee boost was too minor. Some people said it was a DPS loss because the talent was simply too weak. The problem wasn't that people didn't want to use Shock, the problem was that the incentive was just not enough.

Personally I used it. I thought the challenge fun. If I starved myself by using Shock like an idiot, then I had to suffer the repercussions. I played mostly PvP, so having a reason to use Shock (aside from being force damage with a 10m range) was nice.

The bigger design problem was Maul, or more specifically, the Duplicity skill. In general, we really don’t like providing gameplay-altering skills as “low hanging fruit” near the bottom of a skill tree. These skills are usually a problem because they alter your established gameplay after-the-fact. By that I mean, once you’ve fully invested in a skill tree (let’s say 36 points in Madness), you have a 100% full and complete arsenal, skill set, and gameplay. Your leftover points should be used to reinforce and bolster that gameplay – not alter or further complicate it.

It makes sense when you put it that way...

But have you actually seen how useless Maul is without Duplicity? Can you imagine how confusing it must be for new players to reach level 10 and obtain Maul only to realize that the skill is useless? When I played during the beta weekend I actually levelled an Assassin. I specced tank, and I tried to involve Maul somehow but I found that it was detrimental to my damage output. When your game finally launched and I levelled my Jedi Shadow for the first time, I placed points into Infiltration Tactics (Duplicity) from the get-go, even though I was going for tank.

As a new player, the only reason I could find for Shadow Strike (Maul) was with the Infiltration Tactics proc. Placing one talent point into Infiltration Tactics was enough to make the ability justifiable. So where is the design flaw, really? Operatives, they all get backstab. Healers can use it, just like Concealmet and Lethality can. But Maul is nigh useless unless it comes with a proc. There's your flaw. Infiltration Tactics should've been BASELINE, and Infiltration should have gotten a talent that increases it's damage by 30%, and tanks could have gotten the talent that allows for it to be used from any angle.

This isn’t so much a balance concern as it is a usability and complexity concern. There is a limit to the number of abilities in a priority list or rotation that most players feel comfortable with. Slapping more on top of that, which some players may or may not even choose to do, makes things difficult for us to balance and expand upon, and it makes things unnecessarily complex for players.

Madness Assassins had 9 bindings they had to use actively for damage: Creeping Terror, Discharge, Death Field. Those were on a rotation, of sorts. Shock every 20s if specced for it. Then we had a priority order; Assassinate > Maul > Crushing Darkness > Thrash > Saber Strike.

9 is a lot when compared to other classes, but we were never constricted by any cooldowns, aside from the one on Death Field. All we had to look for was two procs in our buff list. Aside from that, once we had our dots up our rotation was pretty much thrash > saber strike, whichever your force allowed for. That is not difficult gameplay.

On my lethality operative, I have 9 bindings that I actively use for damage;

Hidden Strike, Corrosive Grenade, Corrosive Dart, Shiv, Backstab, Explosive Probe, Weakening Blast, Cull, Rifle Shot.

And in my opinion, lethality was always a great deal more challenging than Balance Shadows were. Because of how their resource works, you have to be extremely careful about when and how you use certain abilities. If you drain your energy once, you can save yourself with Adrenaline Probe (though preferably, you'd save Adrenaline Probe as a conscious decision in order to do burst). You also had to keep track of Stim Boost (which has been simplified, granted. A welcome change) and Tactical Advantage. Not to mention, Operatives resource was very restrictive, and they had to juggle several cooldowns in their head while pumping out damage. Everything but Cull and Rifle Shot had a CD. Heck, in some scenarios I found myself filling with Overload Shot, simply because I had probably done something wrong and the energy allowed me to use a more expensive move whilst everything else was on cooldown.

No, Bioware, in contrast, Balance Shadows were very easy to play, so your argument falls short.

By contrast, we can provide players with skill choices that give the same overall effect without the additional complexity and without requiring players to master additional gameplay. Of course, some players have already mastered that gameplay and don’t see it as a problem. We’re not aiming to fix things for those players, and for those players, it might appear as though we’re messing with a good thing. Instead, our fixes aim to address the skill tree for players that passed up on Madness and haven’t ever considered it because it’s too daunting. To be clear, this is important so that all skill trees feel like they’re part of the same game and that they are all equally viable choices to players that want to try out what each skill tree has to offer.

You were messing with a good thing. For PvE you can change things however you want, but for PvP you've crippled us. We're a broken shadow of our former selves when it comes to PvP viability. DON'T JUST LOOK AT NUMBERS. Madness Assassins were always capable of doing nice numbers for the scoreboard... and now, we'll be able to make those high numbers even easier. But Bioware, that damage doesn't count for much. In your PvP, Burst is everything. Our sustained damage has become much lower, and because we no longer have access to Shadow Strike, our burst capabilities are gone. You buffed AoE healing a lot in 2.0, so unless the enemy team doesn't have any healer, our AoE damage doesn't count for anything.

You gave us Phase Walk and nerfed Instant Force Lift, saying that we have too many escape tools. Phase Walk is a very good ability for defensive play in Warzones, and for selfish survival. Instant Force Lift allowed for so much more. Removing it ruined a lot of our group utility. I would MUCH rather keep Instant Force Lift, rather than Phase Walk...

With all of that said, I really want to get across that I personally understand how jarring it can be to have your spec’s gameplay changed in such a way. This is not the kind of thing we like doing or the kind of thing that we have any plans on doing again in the foreseeable future – for any spec.

PLEASE reconsider. Madness Assassins are left in a horrible state right now. It's depressing, really. The spec had a great flow, and you can fix it! By reverting a lot of changes, granted, but it is doable. Restore Calculating Mind. This was one of the most charming aspects of the spec, and Lightning Burns in comparison is so very boring, and it doesn't restore the same amount of force that Calculating mind did. Restore Death Field and Death Marks to the way they were in 1.7 (hitting only 3 targets and having only 10 stacks) if you must. In fact, I would prefer this. It was a brilliant limitation considering how a Madness Assassin operated.

Give us a proc that allows for Maul. Perhaps have the same proc also reduce the cost of Shock, and restore unearthed knowledge instead of Lingering Nightmares. This could be in place of Bloodletting.

I plead to you Bioware, please do this. There was never any need to change Madness. All you did was to alienate a thoroughly unique and fun spec from a small part of your community that loved it. So far on my server I've only seen two balance shadows and zero madness assassins... one of the two balance shadows have already gone to tanking, it would seem. Everyone I've talked to in game who had played Balance/Madness before 2.0 all agree that the spec is simply not fun anymore. So please! Please, please, please change the spec again.

I'll pop in again on this thread and say I'd like to see Balance Shadows back the way things were. I still like to do shadow strike in my rotation, but I dont think it's as effective as things used to be. Force In Balance seems to cost more force when using now. I kinda miss the old FiB of it costing less and hitting 3 enemies.... If you think people want more AoE then make it a skill point upgrade to FiB to raise the force cost to hit 2 more enemies. I want to remain a happy Balance Shadow. It's who my character is!

 

And that Phase Walk needs to be replaced with a dps ability... please? Let me double project if sentinels can double saber throw.

It is more than obvious that Austin P. has some personal vendetta against the class as a whole, and would NEVER give us more DPS. Why else would he nerf one single class so hard? If you read that article NONE of what he is saying makes any sense from a PVP or PVE perspective, his numbers are completely FALSE (assassin DPS STILL 300 LOWER than any other class) and yet he is silent. This thread continues to grow and yet not a word from the staff. All of the information I am seeing points to nothing being done.

In the meantime, my repair bills from tank spec are getting out of hand, even with all 69/72 level mods and armoring, balanced defense stats etc. Just like we warned on the test server, mobs are taking us down in 3-5 seconds if the healer is not incredibly skilled, and even in some cases even with skilled heals. The whole armor nerf thing has been spread-sheeted to death, but numbers are numbers and all you have to do is count repair bills and wipes. So not only am I forced to tank with my favorite toon, I am forced to be a squishy tank, and if I want to run 55 hard mode flash points I DARE NOT pug them. I need the guilds BEST friggin heals, and even then we have 1-2 wipes on flash points. This is from a group that pre-2.0 had NM EC on farm.

Fix it. F**k the cathar. F**k the cartel market. Fix this.

Some great points in the post above by Majspuffen, hope they read it.

Also to AP's statement that balance tree should feel part of the game: I agree, but I would say it needs to feel part of the shadow AC too. Right now it doesn't.

I agree that the balance 1.7 was a very interesting spec, but I also agree with AP that it needed 3 points from another tree (infiltration tactics) to be complete. This was bad, maybe, from a design perspective. The solution then would be to incorporate infiltration tactics inside balance (make it a baseline, as suggested by many), not remove it altogether.

Also, AP's comments about complexity. Why on earth then would KC get access to shadow strike ? Wouldn't it increase the complexity of KC ? Worse, it does nothing for KC's rotation, does't synergise with the KC tree in any way whatsoever (unlike SS for balance 1.7: SS was valuable burst, but more importantly it contributed to meaningful roleplay as melee ranged hybrid). It seems you somehow decided that KC has to be the harder spec and balance the easier. KC in PVP has to watch for atleast 4 procs (surely its a lot more involved when tanking in PVE), balance has to watch for a grand total of 1 proc.

Also there is no risk reward payoff. If done correctly, combat/watchman sentinel, lethality op can pull of amazing burst in a short time for eg. There is nothing like that for balance 2.0. Its very linear (only one way to react in any situation, no way to control the damage-time curve). From a player's perspective, it just feels a poorly done spec.

And as others have said about complexity, many other trees are more complex. Even the trees you remarked as easy (combat sentinels) are arguably more complex than balance 2.0. I remember a statement from one of your developers way back(dont remember who) saying that its better in the long run to have a harder rotation/gameplay (It was in context of commandos losing some damage/induction on grav round I think). I think that applies very well to balance 2.0.

I take it the death of the instant cast Whirlwind was due to PvP whines, as is usually the reason most everything gets nerfed? Do you ever take into consideration abilities' utility in PvE before nerfing them into oblivion? "a lot of extra lockdown that we weren’t too pleased with." you say, why aren't you pleased when Sorcerers keeps NPCs in check, did they complain that players are OP?

What really should've been nerfed was Mind Maze/Sleep Dart. It was (still is for operatives) too easy to ninja cap, and having two 8s mezzes means that the CC breaker is more or less useless.

Imo, Mind Maze/Sleep Dart should last 4s and cause half the resolve it does now. That way, the only way to ninja a base in PvP is to kill the defender. As it should be?

Shadow (Balance tree) here.....

I'm very disappointed that Infiltration tactics is now located further up the Infiltration skill tree. I asked myself : Server Force is better? Or Infiltration tactics? Of course Infiltration tactics with Infiltration mark topped! It deals twice the damage, its faster...

So now I'm half on Balance tree and half on Infiltration tree. I just don't see a reason to top the Balance tree as the new abilities are useless to me. If I have to choose between Mental Scarring+Crush Spirit and Infiltration tactics+Infiltration mark, I take the second.

So Balance is less attractive now... and a bit boring/stupid to play...

When SWTOR first came out, after first 2 months a lot of experienced MMO players left the game. Why? Because the game is easy, the gameplay is easy. Why still make it easier and not harder?

That is only my opinion

Shadow (Balance tree) here.....

 

I'm very disappointed that Infiltration tactics is now located further up the Infiltration skill tree. I asked myself : Server Force is better? Or Infiltration tactics? Of course Infiltration tactics with Infiltration mark topped! It deals twice the damage, its faster...

 

So now I'm half on Balance tree and half on Infiltration tree. I just don't see a reason to top the Balance tree as the new abilities are useless to me. If I have to choose between Mental Scarring+Crush Spirit and Infiltration tactics+Infiltration mark, I take the second.

I tried this as well. I never played any hybrid prior to 2.0 because Full Balance pretty much had it all. It's a tough decision; Shadow Strike is epic for single target damage... but Sever Force is epic for kiting. Personally, I couldn't play without Sever Force. But I'm not sure if I can play without Shadow Strike either.

So Balance is less attractive now... and a bit boring/stupid to play...

 

When SWTOR first came out, after first 2 months a lot of experienced MMO players left the game. Why? Because the game is easy, the gameplay is easy. Why still make it easier and not harder?

 

That is only my opinion

I agree ... If there is no room for error, gameplay ceases to be fun. I'm staring to look for other games, seeing as I don't think this will never change. For me, it started back in 1.2 already, when they simplified Operative healing (Operative Healer was my main back in those days). Then they made it worse by introducing full set of augmented gear and removing use relics from PvP. Increasing the sustained damage like stupid, but removing situational burst... the latter actually requiring intellect to execute properly. Then came 1.4 with the changes to resolve, and CC is just a headache in pvp ever since.

2.1 was just another step into that direction, by ruining a fantastic spec for both pvp and pve, for the sole purpose of making it easier to play... when it wasn't -that- hard to play to begin with. It doesn't bode well for the future.

I'm giving this thread a bump. I was looking over the history of the Shadow Forums. Glanced through 20-30 pages, looking for any complaints that validates Bioware's justification for dumbing down shadows. I can't say I found any. I'll copy my response from this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=629002

Disclaimer: Sorry for the mocking and sarcastic tone of this post, but I'm really upset with the changes to the Balance spec and Bioware's false justification for it.

 

Well lots of people were complaining about the Balance Spec and how hard it was. Just look at all these threads;

Super Necromancing Commence!

 

Balance = Boring: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=380704 (oh no, wait, does the title say infiltration? whups. Well, might be worth looking at the replies in that thread. I'm sure you'll find lots of people saying that Balance was too complex and needed to be nerfed)

 

Balance = Bad for pvp: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=505404 (Yes, the OP is atrocious and he calls the spec "focus" but check the replies. Obviously, people were very upset with how complex balance was. Depth is bad!)

 

Balance = Bad force regen!! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=499759 (Yep, though most of the people replying in the thread says otherwise. Most seem to agree that our force regen was, in fact, fine. And as you can see, lots of people complain about how complex it is. Even the OP wanted a passive random force regen over Sharpened Mind. It's right there in the suggestons! .. oh, it isn't?? Sorry, my mistake)

 

Balance = Worse than Infiltration! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=515739 (Short thread but I found this passage interesting: "I love infiltration....that was till I finally budged and gave in to learn balance, now I won't go back no matter how flashy and cool it looks, the rotation feels a lot smoother too." What did Bioware say about the Shadow Rotation? Right, it's CLUNKY! Derp, that poster must be a complete idiot)

 

Force in Balance = Annoying! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523579 (this is actually a genuine balance complaint. I'm linking it for the sense of consistency. I do not agree with the poster in the thread, however, seeing as I mainly PvP... and Force in Balance having a targeting reticle is highly useful for pvp.)

 

Balance or Infiltration: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=521128 (Check the replies. No one complaining about how complex Balance is, but... interesting reply; "none of the specs are hard mind you but infil is much harder to play well than balance." Someone who thinks Infiltration is harder than Balance!)

 

Balance Shadows are too complex said no one ever: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=511888 (just a random thread with some luv for the old Balance thread)

 

Opinions about Balance: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=530021 (too complex? Said who?)

 

People unable to learn: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=140266 (oh wait, the OP seemed to get it rather fast. THANK GOD you made the spec easier Bioware!!)

 

Shadows are BORING: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=576628 (Wait.. no, just read the thread.)

 

"Do you like or not the Balance spec ?" http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=580357 (well, bioware, what does your customers say? Too complex, right? That's what they are saying?)

 

Conclusion:

 

I've glanced over 20-30 pages and not once did I see anyone complain that Balance was too hard. In fact, if there was any spec that was considered complex it was Infiltration, as many people didn't understand how to play the spec properly. To them, you wrote an eloquent post explaining that people simply had to learn how to play.

 

So why, Bioware? What feedback spurred you to change Balance? The only common complaint related to the Balance spec was the Twin Discipline debate; whether project was to be used in our rotation or not. I didn't find a single complaint about Balance being too hard to play. But I did find a lot of posts expressing their joy over how fun the spec was. So why the hell did you ruin it?

 

Why am I, a customer, going over your feedback? Don't you have paid people to do that sort of thing? The reason I did it was to see whether people had actively been complaining about Balance or not... and they haven't! So why on earth did you ruin the spec?! It's frustrating as hell! I'm going to hold my breath until 2.1... I'd prefer to have the Balance tree more or less fully restored (with a talent for Shadow Strike instead of Crush spirit. This way you can keep Infiltration and Kinetic Combat as they are. Technique Mastery might need to be changed). I would settle for a Shadow Strike proc though... I've tried Lethality Operative and to a lesser extent Pyrotech Merc, and I just can't find the joy in the game anymore. Everything is so dumbed down. Of the remaining complex trees, there's not a one that really appeals to me. I want my kiting mid-range fighter back.

No one. Ever. Complained. About. Balance.

One more disgruntled balance shadow...

Previous posts have covered all the points I think. I've played balance on my main since beta and now after 2.0 I basically avoid that character.

First nice Job you've done with Kinetic since I'm playing my shadow 95% of the time as a Tank I'm completely satisfied with my 2.0 shadow in regards to PVE (I don't PVP regularly)

but the other 5% are a bit how do I phrase this... I hope I'm at least understandable,

if it's too bad to read ignore the white wall of text and just read my proposal in Green.

it's about Balance since I don't play the middle tree

I think Balance is still fun but I've liked it even more before the changes I've just been to busy playing tank or heal to DD much,

I've been using it a couple of times in the past 1-2 weeks.

for PVE I'd say it's decent enough not to be a liability for your Team

but it doesn't Add anything to the group from this interview I'm assuming something will come in that regard in the foreseeable Future that will add a Group wide Buff to Phase walk so that doesn't bother me all that much at the moment.

(if I had to think of something I'd give the focused insight heal to everyone standing in my Phase walk mark)

the 2nd problem is more annoying

usually you burst all the weak enemies down as fast as Possible then deal with the Strong/Elite/Champion/Boss

that being the case I usually don't DOT most of them but I'll try to FIB the Weak to kill them as fast as possible then kill the remaining enemies,

it'll do the Job to kill them with DOT's sure but in the end why stress Your Healers and tanks if you could just FIB+Project/double strike them in 1/10 of the time?

dead enemies neither use CC nor do they deal dmg.

I can understand if you'd like to have an AOE Spec for all AC's but I prefer to deal with one enemy and then move on to the next one

so the instant dmg from FIB is all the AOE I need.

dotting 2 maybe 3 enemies is all right but with more enemies my first priority is reducing incoming damage not getting big numbers.

and I think most shadows/assassins would agree.

I might be wrong of course.

but what I have in mind won't lower our AOE Damage

instead it'll give us the choice to use a group of enemies to buff our single target DMG or spread our DOT's around like we do now.

what I'd change:

FIB shouldn't apply Force Suppression to all Targets hit,

but a Buff to you, worth 10/15 stacks for each target Hit.

that way we can burst the weak enemies down to relieve our Healer's+Tanks without wasting 80% of the Force Suppression marks and use them as a means to increase our dmg on targets of our own choosing

if I remember correctly (as I said I'm just a Hobby DD)

the 15 stacks will usually run out before FIB can be reapplied on the main Target with all 3 DOT's ticking.

with the mechanic I proposed we could use any adds that appear during the fight to buff our DPS on the Boss.

I figured it was time to post again just to remind Bioware that I find my Balance shadow not as fun anymore. It is my main character. I will continue to still use Shadow Strike randomly and just be less effective of a dps. Hopefully others will understand that we just got screwed over by 2.0.

As for trying a hybrid mix, I think I will miss sever force too much. I enjoy it's long range.

I may have to work on my Sentinel instead...