I have been seeing many people describe the new ships as "The big meh", but when I look at them I see something other possibilities and quite likely an intensification of the existing problems the game has. For people that are queuing as coordinated teams these things take their advantage to the next level, this also means that people queuing solo or are just new will be curbstomped even more than before.

 

Lets look at some configurations for premades currently.

 

A) 3 scouts in a wolfpack with either another ship as diversity.

Either of the new ships slips into this and makes the combination even more OP. They now have a speedy repair base/ force multiplier that travels with them.

 

B) Bomber + scout/strikefighter for satellite defense

Now you have two ships that can mutually self heal themselves and anyone that rushes into their aid. Good luck to the pug trying to pry them off that satellite.

 

These are just obvious examples that come to mind from the abilities the new ships have. I am certain there is more depth to what can be done. The problem is even the completely obvious things seem OP. From a game theory standpoint for a person queuing solo they have to be willing to make very altruistic choices and then hope for the very unlikely chance that they will be able to leverage those choices by organizing a group in the ops chat before launch.

 

I look at the balance shift and I have to think that the devs are clueless about just how bad an experience GSF is for most of the people who try it. As was pointed out in another thread, you shouldn't have situations where you have 8v8 wargames and one side has all 4 and 5 ship pilots and the other has nothing but 2 ship rookies. Now the new ships look like they will be the nail in the coffin for what were the infrequent upset wins you would have because the one side had a very good pilot and had some rookies who would actually read ops chat.

None of the support abilities are especially powerful outside Repair Drones, all of these abilities require players to ball up (a terrible idea, in case you've had your head under a rock for the entirety of your gaming career), none of the other components are especially powerful, and coordinated players generally win anyway.

 

Combat Command is fairly niche (you can get plenty of accuracy on your own through upgrades and crew members, making evasive enemies only a niche concern, and power regen is laughably useless), Tensor Field is weak (too little buff for too much cooldown, even at t5), and Remote Slicing is a poor man's EMP Field (inferior disable time, useless t4 upgrades compared to EMP Field's amazing ones, and a frankly laughable amount of damage -- less than a long range RFL shot).

 

Combat Command and Tensor Field have a radius of 5 km fully upgraded, which leaves you vulnerable to things like ion aoe and makes it easy for switch targets. You can boost away after dropping the buff, but you have a sucky engine because you're not playing a good scout or strike. Remote Slicing is better off here, being a debuff instead of a buff, but it sucks, lol.

 

Offensively, the Clarion/Imperium plays like a Pike/Quell with only one missile slot (and poor choices for that slot). Defensively, it can be tougher than a bomber... but without the area denial or raw power of a minelayer. The Spearpoint/Bloodmark simply can't play defensively, and what it does offensively, it does worse than a Novadive/Blackbolt (again, largely because of terrible missile options). Both ships lack the engine abilities to hold their own in a dogfight (except possibly Power Dive, which I haven't tried out), but even if they didn't, their other flaws would hold them back.

 

Most of these downsides can be negated, at least in part, by voice communication... but a group that's coordinated enough to get on vent or what have you is probably going to win against disorganized pugs anyway.

 

Neither ship can keep up with allied dogfighters because neither has access to barrel roll, booster recharge, or even a thruster component.

 

The package deal of a support ship buffing allies and debuffing opponents is simply weaker than if that same pilot flew a ship that was good at killing enemies, even in a group setting.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Armonddd

Yes, the new ships are supporters, guess what that means?

No one bothers to fly them, exactly! Not even in TDM, where a mobile repair platform in the middle of your swarm could be priceless.

I've just spent 3 hours in GSF on VC, saw the new map three times and the new ships not even once - just the usual bomber/gunship spam.

 

/edit:

also, what Armondd said.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Leiryat

You hit the nail on the head ... hopefully it's not the nail in the coffin.

 

The game didn't need more ships to amplify premade advantage--it needs easy-to-build-and-fly ships that provide moderate-to-high level of power to individual PUG pilots, without requiring excessive building or flying skill. In other words, training wheels ships that seem overpowered at first, but can be outmatched by ace builds/piloting.

 

Right now, the only ships that really fit this are T2 Scouts and maybe T1 and T2 Strikes.

 

T1 Scouts very powerful when flown well, but are too vulnerable to start new pilots on.

 

Gunships, especially after the Barrel Roll nerf, require a lot of skill to survive in.

 

Bombers grant way too much power for too low a skill requirement.

 

The two new command variants are basically traps for newbies. They are very hard to build competently, and even harder to play effectively. As you say, the only ones who will be able to leverage them are premades who already have no problem winning the majority of their matches.

 

What the game really needs are more simple starter craft--with high in-built power, but a low capacity for ace exploitation. Maybe that was the intention for Bombers, and it just didn't work out as planned.

The ships are flat out practically useless.

 

Any premade that would benefit from support ship in their ranks would benefit more from anything else, from gunship support through a dogfighter or missile ship to a gosh darn bomber.

 

Any PUG will benefit a skilled pilot taking actual battleship way more than the same pilot trying to do good with a support.

 

I, a NovaDive pilot, took my Spearpoint because it looks amazing, and was really underwhelmed. Most of support I did was when I charged into a raging battle, popped my Shield Projector and Tensor Field and spent entirety trying to lock Thermite on someone. I don't even know if my buffs hit anyone because we have no damn idea about allies' distances.

 

It is not a good ship. Not an useful ship. But it looks sweet and so it became my chill ship for matches against newbie opposition. I will love it and pet it and hug it, maybe I will develop some way to make it useful.

 

In my opinion, devs wasted their best ship models on the worst and the least used ships since times of Comeeeeet-Brrrreeeeakeeeer.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Slivovidze

The issue imo is (if you're flying imperial) the quell or Sting are simply too superior compared to the new ships(on paper at least). non-BLC blasters on a scout pale in comparison when measured against the sting's arsenal, and most players (understandably) lean towards offensive measures, and we got 'healing ships' where I think people wanted better offensive coordination. For the new scout you have to sacrifice your strongest personal defense for one of the new abilities, and both new additions lag behind in mobility because of not having barrel roll, so you can't even keep up with your allies zipping around the map.

 

I am curious about the remote slicing ability on the SF though. if the range isn't terrible that could be interesting.

The issue imo is (if you're flying imperial) the quell or Sting are simply too superior compared to the new ships(on paper at least). non-BLC blasters on a scout pale in comparison when measured against the sting's arsenal, and most players (understandably) lean towards offensive measures, and we got 'healing ships' where I think people wanted better offensive coordination. For the new scout you have to sacrifice your strongest personal defense for one of the new abilities, and both new additions lag behind in mobility because of not having barrel roll, so you can't even keep up with your allies zipping around the map.

 

I am curious about the remote slicing ability on the SF though. if the range isn't terrible that could be interesting.

 

It is rubbish.. Its main ability is to disable the system ability of your target. In most ships this will lock out their alternate guns or missiles, or with scouts they cant use TT or Booster regen. The shield component is useless. It removes 40 shield power per second. I though this would be helpful against bombers, over the 12 seconds it runs you will remove 540 shield power. Due to the nature of the drain, it doesn't count as damage, so the native shield regen of 90 on a bomber will override this ability completely, resulting in a net loss of 0 shields. You are better off using the co-pilot energy re-gen negate ability.

 

The only actual saving grace of the ability is the engine disable at the highest tier. The 4th tier is substandard and not worth the 10k req it requires as a 20 engine or shield power reduction is minuscule. I guess the idea is to combine it with either the emp missiles or the ion missiles, but to be honest, i have tried this combination out and its unimpressive so far. Ill see how it comes along as i master different components, but its not looking very good at this stage.

 

My main gripe is that we were aware of these potential problems but bioware did nothing to help us test it while they were in the development phase. Now as normal, we have to suffer through it, while trying to convince bioware devs there is a problem. You have seen how long it has taken to get action on the ion railgun.....

Edited April 9, 2014 by Yndras

I have been flying new scout all day. Tier 2 upgrades. It is so useful with tensor field in domination, and in death match I got 17 kills 4 assist 70k dmg 2 deaths. I think it tons of fun to fly, and I am sure I wiil have just as much fun, and do just as well on new striker. cleary you have not been hit with new slicing ability either....IT SUCKS to be on the receiving end of a maxed out slicer!

cleary you have not been hit with new slicing ability either....IT SUCKS to be on the receiving end of a maxed out slicer!

 

Nine seconds of system lockout sucks... but I'll take it over EMP field's 15 seconds any day.

Glad it is working for you, testing 2 new ships today and only thing I noticed is that I die rather fast

 

this buffs in theory are nice, but in reallity? I have no idea if I'm buffing my team, dunno if I'm in range, anything....

 

and only place I can see them doing sth nice is TDM, but again, you don't have any means of escaping fast. Went on satelite with repair against repair bomber. Well, he had seeker missles, I had nothing, didn't end well.

The new ships are very powerful in a group. Calling a target you are about to remote slice is simply a guaranteed kill, as it can't evade unless it has disto- in which case, you call the disto first. The other abilities are excellent because they group buff and don't all instantly fade away.

 

The complaint about premades being more powerful though, doesn't matter. If the premade is using support ships, it should be better than if it isn't. If the premade is really a premade- not just some people who grouped for a faster queue- then they will destroy a non-premade regardless, so this ship just allows a few more aces to run req ships and have more fun.

 

Meanwhile, it adds depth to the rare but epic premade versus premade.

I was really looking forward to 2.7 mostly because of the 2 new ships,. I really liked the more healing utility of the new ships especially when it came to the repair drones. After playing around 15 or so matches today I've concluded I have to be playing the ships wrong. Whenever I charge into the thick of a battle to use one of my abilities, it seems that after I sweep through I'm either shield-less/dead or alive with little to no engine capacity left. Whenever I do live it seems like my ships offensive capabilities are substandard. It seems like most of the missiles don't match up compared on the AoE radius needed to use the healing abilities. it's too way too early to give up on the ships, but any suggestions or comments would be helpful.

Well my first question is, are you playing mostly naked ships or did you save tokens to crack? Like, are you used to throwing down with a 100k req or mastered starguard, and now you have a 10k or 40k Clarion?

 

Secondly, which builds are you using?

The Clarion is pretty decent baseline, compared to other ships with similar upgrade levels.

 

Switch out of rapid fire lasers as soon as you can of course, but other than that the default choices are ok.

 

I wound up doing a lot of unlocking rather than upgrading, and the group buffs are definitely noticeable, though it takes practice (and preferably VIOP) to hit at least two friendly ships with them. Buffing two other ships is where I saw them become really noticeable, getting just yourself or only one additional person is a bit weak, but that's intended in the design.

 

In some ways it's a bit like running a sage healer in PvP. Not the easiest, not the most impressive, but if you're very good or just really like the playstyle it's not an unreasonable pick.

I have no idea if the Clarion is good, but Tsuki seemed to have an entertaining time with it in a lopsided TDM yesterday. When I got low I'd fly over to him and tell him to heal me.

 

GSF needs some equivalent of the ops pane and friendly targeting so you can find damaged allies and heal them.

I was really looking forward to 2.7 mostly because of the 2 new ships,. I really liked the more healing utility of the new ships especially when it came to the repair drones. After playing around 15 or so matches today I've concluded I have to be playing the ships wrong. Whenever I charge into the thick of a battle to use one of my abilities, it seems that after I sweep through I'm either shield-less/dead or alive with little to no engine capacity left. Whenever I do live it seems like my ships offensive capabilities are substandard. It seems like most of the missiles don't match up compared on the AoE radius needed to use the healing abilities. it's too way too early to give up on the ships, but any suggestions or comments would be helpful.

 

Your job in a support ship isn't to charge into the thick of battle. Stay with your wing, let them do the heavy lifting while you buff and assist.

 

Your kill totals will likely suck. But your gunships will love you. -bp

I had enough comm's to get Bloodmark to tier 2 at start of the day. By time I went to sleep I had Tier 3 with exception of weapons and systems! (will work on Imperium in a couple days, but I trust I can make it work efficiently)

 

Laser Cannon

Ion Missile

Tensor Field

Distortion

Snap Turn

Lightweight Armor

Damage Capacitor

Large Reactor

Dampening Sensors

 

my stats for day one (34 matches played)

-219 kills(6.44 per battle), Highest kill count 17 in TDM

-225 assists(6.61 per battle). Highest assist count 14

-75 deaths((KD ratio of 2.92)

-1.1 million damage dealt(32,719 per battle), highest dmg in TDM 75k

-41% hit miss %

 

 

I do not think any ship is bad, you just have to find a way to make it work for you. this ship maxed out with the right person flying ti will be just as deadly as any other ship. Anyways I hope everyone gives it a try. i will let you know how striker turns out when I get around to it.

Laser Cannon

Ion Missile

Tensor Field

Distortion

Snap Turn

Lightweight Armor

Damage Capacitor

Large Reactor

Dampening Sensors

 

I'd favor range sensors over dampening (you're hanging out with friends, right? Dampeners are for solo hunting) and anything other than the ion missile (depending on what you want the missile to do). But otherwise that is a solid build.

I'd favor range sensors over dampening (you're hanging out with friends, right? Dampeners are for solo hunting) and anything other than the ion missile (depending on what you want the missile to do). But otherwise that is a solid build.

 

I'd go with communication over range, but that's just me.

I'd favor range sensors over dampening (you're hanging out with friends, right? Dampeners are for solo hunting) and anything other than the ion missile (depending on what you want the missile to do). But otherwise that is a solid build.

 

I Q solo a lot, not so much last week or so but 85% of all matches ive ever done are solo. also I made new thread per sombodys request.

I found striker quite fun. Quads + thermites ftw. Repair that follows you around is great.

 

For scout, I still play him around satelites most, maybe if the CD on repair drone is shorter it would be great as quick reinforcement option for nodes under pressure....

I found striker quite fun. Quads + thermites ftw. Repair that follows you around is great.

 

For scout, I still play him around satelites most, maybe if the CD on repair drone is shorter it would be great as quick reinforcement option for nodes under pressure....

 

 

idk about being on a scout without distortion. that 2nd missle break is nice.

I found striker quite fun. Quads + thermites ftw. Repair that follows you around is great.

 

For scout, I still play him around satelites most, maybe if the CD on repair drone is shorter it would be great as quick reinforcement option for nodes under pressure....

 

I've been running the quad + thermite build too. Changing my tactics to not be quite as aggressive as I would be in my Type 1 strike seems to work out well.

 

Flying the Type 3 kinda reminds me of B-Wings from older Star Wars games. If you wanted to only dogfight B-Wings weren't for you but if you liked the idea of a heavy fighter-bomber that had more dogfighting capability than a Y-Wing it was the ship for you.

I agree that all these new abilities make it WAY harder to even control a satellite. Victory only depends on the beginning and who follows you, and if they have the bomber and scout/strike combo. At least take off the defense turrets around the satellite to make this interesting.

I agree that all these new abilities make it WAY harder to even control a satellite. Victory only depends on the beginning and who follows you, and if they have the bomber and scout/strike combo. At least take off the defense turrets around the satellite to make this interesting.

 

How about Sat's have a radiation debuff they put out, kinda like an exhaustion zone(for ships only). A lot longer of course. Do not want to nerf the pro floaters who don't even know what blaster are. Not a serious thought, just something I thought up while reading this. I do not think turrets really matter either way. they are insignificant.