Maras are probably the most OP class currently when played by someone who knows how to get the most of it. They're definitely stronger than Mercs at the moment, the only thing that sometimes gives the opposite impression is that Arsenal Merc is one of the easiest specs to play.

Most people are also catching on which is why Maras and Sents are starting to seem more common in matches than Mercs & Commandos. Mercs are still in a very good place but they're no longer *the* first choice for FotM rerollers.

This is a common frustration in Regs. I'll stun a Merc or Commando with one of the two self-healing bubbles up, hitting him with AOE, and then watch in horror as one of my teammates start dealing a ton of direct damage that gets converted to health. The really mystifying thing is that I sometimes see other Mercs or Commandos doing that. They play that class and should know better! (though Marauders and Sents do it a lot more often)

 

On the other hand one of my PVP toons is an Arsenal Merc, so I also benefit from similar situations just as often. Still, if I'm going to be honest it is at least one self heal too many.

hmmm is lacerate(melee AOE) bugged could have sworn that it healed the merc the other day.

hmmm is lacerate(melee AOE) bugged could have sworn that it healed the merc the other day.

I can tell is randomly does sometimes, and sometimes not. My theory is that it depends if another guy took the hit (then it is considered AOE), or not (then it is considered direct and triggers shield). I am almost certain it does but never caught it in recordings to be sure about this. By the way, wither and discharge of the assassin tank seem to sometimes trigger shield if the merc is the main target.

hmmm is lacerate(melee AOE) bugged could have sworn that it healed the merc the other day.

let me guess you dont know what lightning charge actually does....?

Look at what I accidentally came across in "Marauders in PvP":

 

So yeah, Floplag (and TrixxieTriss/Hottie?), the most active mercs defender in this thread, is not biased at all.

So because we post in two threads that have similar themes, that makes our points not valid? You do know there are probably only 20 people left who even actively post in the pvp section and probably only half know what they are talking about.

You will also note if you compare threads that we don’t all agree regarding Mara’s. Hottie and I are on the opposite side as I believe they are fine. We can have opposing views in one thread and agree in another one. I often support Hotties views as well as oppose them. Just because we agree on something doesn’t mean we are biased

And I’m just calling it as I see it. Mercs are now fine IMO, they aren’t weak or OP.

I dont know how that makes me biased in this conversation because I dont play one at the moment and haven’t since they became OP in 5.0. I actually put mine back on the shelf and I’ve not played one pvp match on any of my Mercs since December last year.

Maras are probably the most OP class currently when played by someone who knows how to get the most of it. They're definitely stronger than Mercs at the moment, the only thing that sometimes gives the opposite impression is that Arsenal Merc is one of the easiest specs to play.

 

Most people are also catching on which is why Maras and Sents are starting to seem more common in matches than Mercs & Commandos. Mercs are still in a very good place but they're no longer *the* first choice for FotM rerollers.

LoL, any class is OP when played by someone who knows how to get the most out of it. They call that skill

I’ve seen exceptional players rip through teams while on the worst performing specs in the game. They can make any class look like it’s OP.

The difference is there are some really good Fury Mara’s around who have been playing them since before 4.0 and were playing them against Mercs and snipers for the last 12 months, while most Mara’s were playing Carnage spec because it did more over all damage.

Now Fury hasn’t changed much at all and other specs or classes have, so people are QQing because their class isn’t performing as they expect it.

We are also seeing Carnage players all jumping to Fury because they got nerfed. All of a sudden Fury’s lower DPS doesn’t seem so bad and any good Carnage players worth their salt are still playing Carnage, like Grim is,

But because Mercs got knocked off the OP pedestal, all those FOTM rerollers have been waiting to see which class gets QQ’d about the most of the forums and having nerf threads made. As soon as that happens they all jump fast to that class and get the ball rolling.

None of them are good and are relying on gank groups and numbers to carry them. Put one of them up against another player of equal skill on another class and you will see how they aren’t OP.

Yes, they may become FOTM (I pray they don’t), but not because they are OP. The FOTM crowd always needs a home and if there isnt an over whelming OP class, they’ll find the class that sits in a good position. Let’s face it, those FOTM rerollers are never going to pick a weak class or mediocre one. They will always pick a good class, even if it’s just the best balanced class. Only diehard fans of their class or dedicated pvpers will play classes that are underperforming. It’s so much easier to follow the crowd and let them decide what should be played. I have to wonder what would happen if a bunch of really good players started a trend to make PTs or Lightning Sorcs look OP. Would all of those FOTM rerollers instantly change to one of those. Would we then see threads to nerf them because they were FOTM? IMHO, we would see multiple threads asking to nerf the worst two specs in the game because they would be FOTM.

It’s also easier to ask for nerfs than ask for buffs because there are far more people who don’t play that class than people who play it. So if you can’t compete against that class, just call for nerfs because you’ll have a whole bunch of other people in your position to back you up. But if you ask for buffs, you’ll have just as many people against you who would support you for nerfs, telling you you don’t need buffs because that would make you OP.

Basically, it’s easier to get a mob on your side to tear someone down, than it is to get a mob to lift someone up if it doesn’t benefit them or it might make life more difficult for them.

If people find their class isn’t perfoming as they expect it to, ask for buffs and stop calling for nerfs. Do you all want every class to be rubbish just because you all find yours isn’t what you want.

Start a campaign to buff your classes and I’ll support it if it’s resonable. I already support buffs for PTs and Lighting Sorcs.

I’m truely interested to know the classes/specs people are playing who want to nerf Mara’s.

Are they classes who got nerfed and aren’t performing anymore

Are they FOTM who’ve lost their cover behind being OP

so read all comments and say thx for the discussion ! but i play both classes jugg and merc and no one can tell me that they have the same survivability .... with my jugg i think i dont play so bad ..always on top scorers by dmg , he has 248er gear. but with the merc (242) i stand longer then any tank ..and that against good players in other team !

So you can write what you want ...the survivability of merc is OP for an dmg class that have the advantage too of range attack ... with a little bit logic the melee should have the better survivability because he must jump into enemys ! no other dmg class has so much healing buffs and skills !

with the merc i run to another point on map and heal me up on the way , with my jugg its not possible ! and the movement of jugg is not so good like sniper !

no healing for dmg classes or give all the same possibilites .... so easy . But BW dont want it for years ....

over and out

here antoher comment that describe the jugg in pvp , its posted in another thread in forum:

DavidAtkinson

11.11.2017 , 11:31 AM | #3

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Quote: Originally Posted by LordBanjax View Post

It looks fun. Just curious in practice how's it play for warzones?

DPS jugg is the worst class you could pick for PVP right now. The only good thing about it is that it's "fun".

DPS wise it's totally ok, but it just cannot compete with the new trigger happy FOTM classes like merc and sniper.

In ranked it's the NR. 1 on the kill list.

In regs you could play DPS jugg as class weakness isn't that obvious but in ranked it will only lead to frustration unless you are a PVP god.

For this reason lots of jugg players rolled as Tanks or Skank tanks(tank with Dps gear). It's the most viable way to play jugg in pvp.

here antoher comment that describe the jugg in pvp , its posted in another thread in forum:

 

 

DavidAtkinson

11.11.2017 , 11:31 AM | #3

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Quote: Originally Posted by LordBanjax View Post

It looks fun. Just curious in practice how's it play for warzones?

DPS jugg is the worst class you could pick for PVP right now. The only good thing about it is that it's "fun".

 

DPS wise it's totally ok, but it just cannot compete with the new trigger happy FOTM classes like merc and sniper.

 

In ranked it's the NR. 1 on the kill list.

 

In regs you could play DPS jugg as class weakness isn't that obvious but in ranked it will only lead to frustration unless you are a PVP god.

 

For this reason lots of jugg players rolled as Tanks or Skank tanks(tank with Dps gear). It's the most viable way to play jugg in pvp.

I whole heartily disagree with most of this statement, I’ve recently started playing my rage Jugg again after playing my Fury Mara all year and I can say my Jugg is definitely viable.

Most Mercs are still stupid and try to face tank me, so I give them free lessons on why they shouldn’t, but learning is hard for most Mercs.

Snipers are harder, but not impossible if you pick the terrain/location to engage them. Obviously you don’t charge them with no LoS about and you make sure they can’t blow you away to far. I will say they are challenging to kill, more than on my Mara, but I like a challenge

I whole heartily disagree with most of this statement, I’ve recently started playing my rage Jugg again after playing my Fury Mara all year and I can say my Jugg is definitely viable.

Most Mercs are still stupid and try to face tank me, so I give them free lessons on why they shouldn’t, but learning is hard for most Mercs.

Snipers are harder, but not impossible if you pick the terrain/location to engage them. Obviously you don’t charge them with no LoS about and you make sure they can’t blow you away to far. I will say they are challenging to kill, more than on my Mara, but I like a challenge

You can disagree, but if you look at it.. what I've written is very accurate especially now since everyone does TR.

Team ranked is about sniper, PT tank and DoT's. For jugg as a melee it's a nightmare to compete with Ranged and AOE based teams.

Same for mara, but mara has better defenses and force cloack. Take away force cloack from Mara and it would RIP as well.

yes indeed i am jugg main just usubbed snipers and maras are gods in pvp no point playing anything else

If you truly believe this, you are playing Jugg wrong.

If you truly believe this, you are playing Jugg wrong.

Have to agree with this ^^

Warning another long post below :

I’ve been playing my Fury Mara all year and now everyone has started to roll Fury Mara’s 😓, so I decided to start playing my rage Jugg again because I feel the Fury Mara may become FOTM and dislike playing FOTM.

Most Mara’s are killable on my Jugg in a 1v1 environment, but I’m still trying to smooth out the rough edges after not playing my Jugg for 18 months.

My conclusion so far is Rage Juggs are a natural counter to Fury Mara’s. Both have very similar dps abilities and burst. While Mara’s are more mobile and have great survivability, Juggs make up for that with reflect and enduring Bastion. Most Mara’s don’t know how to deal with either ability and keep attacking instead of staying out of range. They’ve gotten too used to staying on people and zooming around to actually watch what another class is doing.

Fury Mara’s think they can still burst down a lot of classes even if they make mistakes and keep attacking through Merc heal to full. But they always seem to under estimate my Jugg and think they can burst me down during enduring Bastion.

Juggs have some great survivability if you don’t blow all your DCDs at once. Mara’s should be wary of the sleeping giant and try not to poke the bear in 1v1 engagements unless they actually know what they are doing. And any good Mara’s, I’ll see you on the field of battle so I can sharpen my edges and have some fun testing my metal against you.

Snipers are much more challenging than when I’m on my Mara, but they aren’t gods. They are definitely tough, but they do die. You just need to change your mind set and tactics yet again.

Mercs are fun because they try to face tank me 9/10 times. But I am wondering why my force push doesn’t work on them most of the time? I’ve not checked what utility or ability affects this, can anyone shine some light on it?

I’m finding my main nemesis at the moment to be Sins and Operatives. Their hit and run tactics, along with having many options to control my already limited mobility, make them one of the hardest classes to engage on my Jugg if they are half decent. The one saving grace is most Sins are skanks and want to have a stand up fight and not use their speed and mez as an advantage. When they do that, I win most encounters.

I hate Operatives with a passion, they are an ongoing annoyance for me on most classes since they changed stabby stabby’s mez arc a few years ago. But they are ruthless against a Jugg because we already have the most limited mobility and escapes in the game.

Now if you put two Sins, two Operative or a combo of both against a Jugg, you may as well bend over and put out the welcome mat, lol. Things are what they are, I’ll just need to adjust and I’m hoping I’ll be able to develop some tactics in this meta to counter these classes better. My biggest dilemma is my lag. For some strange reason, both stealth classes lag my ability activation more than other classes, even when I play the class, I’m not sure why, probably their speed and stealth animations combined add something to it. So they always have that advantage in every encounter against me.

I’ll rank the classes in difficulty against my Jugg at the moment. Lowest difficulty to highest. This is a work in progress as I’ve only been playing my Jugg in this current meta for half a week, I expect things will change as I work out how to deal with classes better.

Easiest to hardest in 1v1 (no healer)

Jugg vs

1. Mara / Jugg dps

2. Sin and Jugg skanks

3. Mercs

4. PTs (surprisingly they are very good at staying out of most of my dps range abilities, while staying under force leap range)

5. Sorc healers

6. Sorc dps

7. Snipers

8. Dps Sins

9. Operatives

If anyone has any tips, I’ll take them on board and see if they work for me.

Let me finish by adding everyone’s favourite nerf slogan

#nerfoperatives

Mercs are fun because they try to face tank me 9/10 times. But I am wondering why my force push doesn’t work on them most of the time? I’ve not checked what utility or ability affects this, can anyone shine some light on it?

You've been playing this game for 6 years and act like you're the greatest player in the history of the universe on these forums and STILL don't know how Hydraulic Overrides work?

Mind blown...

You've been playing this game for 6 years and act like you're the greatest player in the history of the universe on these forums and STILL don't know how Hydraulic Overrides work?

 

Mind blown...

I know how it works, but sometimes certain classes utilitiy choices can override others. Leap or force push often overrule other classes abilities and utility choices.

I’ve only just started playing my Jugg again, as I pointed out . I’ve also not played my Merc because I hate playing FOTM classes, so I’ve not had first hand experience on it for over a year and things have changed since then

I’m certainly not the greatest player, but I’m also not some scrub. I know what my limitations and I’m not too proud to ask for advice or help because it can only make me a better player.

If we went back two years ago I would have jumped on my Merc and played for a bit to find out all the nuances. But since 5.0, I’m less enthusiastic about the game and I’m asking for advice a lot more instead of spending hours testing stuff like I used to.

So you don’t need to jump on here and be rude. All you had to say is Overide prevents it working and I would have said, “yeah, that makes sense, I just wasn’t sure, thanks for letting me know”.

Anyway Happy New Year and be safe

still fotm maybe but now surely the most no brain spec to play is fury maraudeur.

Not really. Fury Mara’s are anything but a brain dead spec. Anyone that thinks they can just jump on one for the first time and do well is in for a surprise. To play Fury well, you need some lvl of skill. It’s not as simple and forgiving as Mercs were in 5.0. They do require you to know what you are doing most of the time.

What I am seeing is a bunch of Mara’s who run together and burst all over one person. This of course makes them look easy and OP because they have great burst and any idiot can get of that first burst ability off and then not need to do anything else because their cohorts running with them have all used the same burst. It’s really no different than any other group of the same class running together in a gank squad and burst people down in one hit.

But get one of those Mara’s alone and it’s a different story. They have zero idea how to use their DCDs or what ability priorities to use. Most run out of focus/rage and need to spam their weak lightsaber ability to build it up again. And god forbid they don’t have two healers to back them up, then they rage quit and call everyone else scrubs.

I’ve yet to see a FOTM Mara kill a healer, tank or sniper. Most good Sorcs just run away from them. They are also extremely surprised when a dps Jugg kills them. I’ve been accused of running a skank Jugg because two of them couldn’t kill me and I solo’d one before back up arrived that finished the other off before I could get a double solo

Mara’s may seem easy on the outside because people are putting up big numbers, but ask yourself, where are those numbers coming from. Is it because they are running in a gank squad with two healers backing them up or is it because they know how to play!

Hi,

 

the "nerf" of the Mercs / commandos was an joke, they are still the best class for pvp. i extra made me an merc and the survivability is totaly OP . I didnt play this class for long time and had only 242 gear , but stand more then 20 sec against 4 or 5 players ..alone !! This survivability needs an melee not an range dd !!

 

I had more and more games with my main (juggernaut) where both groups has more and more range dd's so they build 2 frontlines the healers behind them and shoot each others. As Jugger you have now choice to jump into enemy line and die or throw sometimes your saber The healers dont reach you because they stand in back. its same senseles fighting like in first worldwar in verdun

 

And wats the reason for that...that the range dd's are totaly OP in their defense since over 2 years. Of course no one will play melee.

 

The best defense has merc

the range attack has merc

merc can heal him self with scans when he run from on point to another or has a few sec time beetwen attacks

merc has heavy armor

 

sniper has geat movement to dodge enemys attacks and shield wich heals him

 

....and what has jugg (wich stands in enemy grp) one defense buff wich heals him , merc has 3 !

 

if there nothing change we will see only mercs snipers heals and saboteurs.

 

wich such an disbalance over a long time you can kill a game !

 

with this game play you dont need the expensive star wars license

While I agree mando's/mercs are pretty over tuned atm, I find skank tanks to be even worse.. the damage output along with mitgation.. yikes..

While I agree mando's/mercs are pretty over tuned atm, I find skank tanks to be even worse.. the damage output along with mitgation.. yikes..

Consider the damage output by a skank. The overwhelming amount of the time, if I put decent numbers up as a skank it's because I was preventing 6 people from capping a node and was sitting at the door Aoeing. And I am very unlikely to be running around trying to kill people because I am a tank and my job is mitigation. This is different from a merc or sniper in that they exist to damage (or I guess technically heal for mercs).

Consider the damage output by a skank. The overwhelming amount of the time, if I put decent numbers up as a skank it's because I was preventing 6 people from capping a node and was sitting at the door Aoeing. And I am very unlikely to be running around trying to kill people because I am a tank and my job is mitigation. This is different from a merc or sniper in that they exist to damage (or I guess technically heal for mercs).

I can agree with you.. I have nothing with skank tanks, but when I see a PT skank tank do 7kdps/round in team ranked, I kinda think something might be wrong after all.