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Marauder/Sentinel Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Marauder/Sentinel Set Bonus Discussion
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James_Mcturney's Avatar


James_Mcturney
07.13.2015 , 06:08 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LukeArvin View Post
The Sentinel needs some resistance to constant CC especially as a melee class. Borrowing a page from the Guardian's playbook would be welcome. I think immunity to stuns after force leap and finishing the CD on force leap with saber throw would be a welcome change. This would provide a nice buff to Combat especially which relies on a 3 sec Precision window.
These reforms would be very useful in a boss fight where I need to leap out of a circle, or defend the healer from yet another trash mob.

Proposed Level 60 Set Bonuses:
2-Piece: Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Additionally, Force Leap / Charge grants immunity to stuns knock-backs and all CC for 5 sec.

4-Piece: Saber Throw finishes the cooldown on Force Leap. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases movement speed by 15% and all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.

6-Piece: Lowers the cool-down of Valorous Call by 30 seconds. Additionally, activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.
Wow nice op set, although it shouldn't be a set bonus but a utility for pvpers! =) i'm a pve and i know its useless for us, you are not fooling anyone xD

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.13.2015 , 08:05 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Marauders have way more problems than their set bonus right now. The other classes didn't get treated like we did so I get the feeling this thread is going to be pretty bitter. That said I don't see why you all are looking at changing the set bonuses. Honestly they are pretty much fine for all the AC's right now. Instead of focusing on the set bonuses that are all pretty beneficial to everyone right now I think you need to focus more on the class balance itself. The marauder community still hates the current form of annihilation and you completely ignored our pleas to fix it or even revert it to 2.10 when it was nearly perfect. PT/Assassin/Sorc are still pretty OP in pvp......I think you guys are focusing on the wrong stuff here.
This isn't meant as a criticism , but we should all remember that there are 3 specs, I think we should as a community have solidarity. We want to improve the class, not just one spec. Fixing any one spec does not fix marauders. Even though I am a carnage marauder I'm all for anni getting its do, but carnage and fury should be equally addressed. This is infinitely more important than the set bonus.

~ Grim

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

MrEndymion's Avatar


MrEndymion
07.13.2015 , 08:12 PM | #23
Well, I wish this thread was a little less toxic. The combat team has asked a question, it is up to you if you want to answer it, but blaming Bioware and saying "Just fix Watchman already" and "You're gonna ignore us" is counterproductive. Anyways.... my thoughts...

2 Piece: This is actually pretty decent, I think this can be left as is.
4 Piece: This is kind of different in my opinion, because if my memory serves me correctly, this is very similar to our old 4 piece, minus the cool down reduction on Valorous Call, which is no longer there.
6 Piece: This is where the work is needed, in my honest opinion. The Auto Crit, is not particularly amazing for any Sentinel spec. In fact, it's terrible for Watchman. Merciless Slash is used every six seconds in Watchman, that's around 10 every minute.... 1 Crit out of 10 is not that big... especially when RNG can give that to you. For Concentration, It gives you a nice pretty number on your Concentrated Slice, but that's the only perk. For Combat, you get a nice Precision window, but once again, 1 Crit once only every minute, and one that you may get anyway, seems kind of underwhelming to me.

I can honestly suggest making the old 2 Piece Set Bonus the new 6 Piece. Why? Each Sentinel Discipline makes heavy use of Master Strike. While it doesn't hit as hard as it used to, it's still a heavy damaging ability, and for Watchman, gives us a Focus neutral or Focus positive filler that we can use on cool down. Since Master Strike is very very important to Sentinels, I think a damage boost to it would do wonders.
http://www.swtor.com/r/csdPWl Referral link and a muffin button... click it.... you get a free blueberry muffin
Ahz, GM of <R O G U E> and Wrestling Nerd.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.13.2015 , 08:13 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Kadra View Post
Speaking from the Annihilaton point of view:
I believe the 6th tier set bonus is a bit out of place. I would advocate for a flat damage increase to Annihilation, if anything, rather than give it an autocrit once a minute. There might be other ways to go, but the current autocrit just doesn't seem right. It does give a damage increase, however slight it might be, but it introduces some awkwardness, unpredictability even over the course of long boss fights with adds, if you know what I mean. Wonder what Oofalong or Ardarell would say.
I think all 3 specs should be given a flat damage bonus. Anni is no more deserving of it than any of the other specs. Anni already does more than the other 2 overall, if anything it should be Carnage and Fury that get it (Which isn't to say Anni shouldn't get it. Merely that no spec has some sort of divine right to have greater damage than any other one.)

~ Grim

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
07.13.2015 , 08:13 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
This isn't meant as a criticism , but we should all remember that there are 3 specs, I think we should as a community have solidarity. We want to improve the class, not just one spec. Fixing any one spec does not fix marauders. Even though I am a carnage marauder I'm all for anni getting its do, but carnage and fury should be equally addressed. This is infinitely more important than the set bonus.

~ Grim

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."
Carnage and fury are not completely broken like annihilation is.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.13.2015 , 09:28 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey everyone,

We wanted to take a moment to reach out to the community to collect ideas on set bonuses. We are looking for opinions on current and previous set bonuses as well as concepts for future. This thread will cover Marauders/Sentinels.

Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions.

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)
  • 2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
  • 6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.
Cheers, all!
The SWTOR Combat Team

My ideas regarding the set bonus' is this. Do not change them. At level 65 additional attributes are than added to those already existing.

At the 6 piece level the addition could be unique to each spec (much like it is now regarding the different attacks the autocrit can be achieved with) or all encompassing. Personally I'd prefer to see it unique to each spec to give it an added flavor and thus coloring some of the differences between the specs.

Regarding the DPS 5% bonus from set pieces -
I'm not sure if I understood the comment regarding the DPS bonus from set piece

"Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions."


Does this mean as it already provides a 5% DPS bonus as is (so no further increase), or if it cannot be increased by 5% in addition to the preexisting 5% DPS bonus.

Given that is almost universally considered necessary for Marauder to receive a DPS increase for competitive DPS viability I suggest


At the 2 and 4 piece level increase the damage percent bonus so as to achieve an additional 5% damage increase.

So at level 65 the 2 piece set bonus damage increases from 2% to 5%.
At level 65 the 4 piece set bonus damage increases from 3% to 5%.

Another idea would be to increase the duration of the damage increase i.e.

•2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 30 seconds (Up from 15). Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
•4-Piece: Reduces the cool down of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 20 seconds (Up from 10).
---------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the level 6 piece bonus (I'll only address Carnage as there are others that know the other 2 specs better than me and would be better able to make proper suggestions regarding those specs)

These ideas are not presented as being all inclusive, merely a list of things that could be considered individually. Additionally some of these ideas are base line suggestions (brain-storming) that would need to be fleshed out with regard to the specifics by better minds than my own =]

•6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute. **** In addition at level 65 (add one of the following ideas) *****

* Gore window duration increases to 4.5 seconds (up from 3 seconds) (or a flat 5 a half of a second is barely perceptible)

* Gore window ceases to be on a timer, and in it's place flat charges are given on a charge for charge basis.(Given the melee unfriendly mechanics found in the many of the operations that force melee to move we lose so much potential. The gore window is the bread and butter of the spec, without it we are nothing. Give us our do. If the operation mechanic forces us to move there is nothing we can do about it. This is vastly unfair to Carnage and has an innate hamstringing effect. This is like saying God gave us 10 fingers but half the time he only lets us use 6 of them.

* Ravage can be used while moving/ damage buff to it (Nuff said).

* A surge bonus that applies to the autocrit

*A cool down decrease to berserk or gore is applied after the the autocrit.


* Gore now does damage (Like it use to be before 3.0)

* A self-heal effect based on some ratio to the damage inflicted by the autocrit. (A "vampire" effect, if you will)

The Marauder is in dire need of improvement in various areas( QoL, mobility, lack of cc ability and too limited amount of cc breakers, competitive DPS, self-heals, etc. ) I do not think, in most of these areas, they should be addressed within the confines of set bonus' (Except for DPS and self-heals), but rather in the class itself. (Disciplines, utilities, skills, passives, etc.)

Please forgive any spelling and grammatical errors. I suck that way sometimes. =]

~ Grim

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

Bahadori's Avatar


Bahadori
07.13.2015 , 09:35 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by MrEndymion View Post
Well, I wish this thread was a little less toxic. The combat team has asked a question, it is up to you if you want to answer it, but blaming Bioware and saying "Just fix Watchman already" and "You're gonna ignore us" is counterproductive. Anyways.... my thoughts...
.
^^^ Totally agree and disappointed in some of the responses people are giving here. Lets be constructive... otherwise just go create another "Sentinels/Marauders Suck" "The Class is Dead" post that populate the Sentinel/Marauder forums

Ok on to more positive dialogue...

Quote: Originally Posted by g_mK View Post
My thoughts:
So far we have a 4.17% dps gain from set bonus which is below your stated goal. Changing the new four piece to be more similar to the old 4-piece will give us closer to the 5% dps goal you stated while also tilting the scales in favor of new set bonus compared to the old. Other than that, set bonuses for sentinel are good.
Dón-Quijote makes a valid point here. If that is your intended goal, no more than 5%, then that would be a good way to bring it up a bit. With that said, personally, I would love to see more emphasis around a specs primary focus. For example Precision/Gore for Combat/Carnage, Cauterize/Rupture for Watchman/Annihilation, and Focused Burst/Raging Burst for Concentration/Fury. I do understand there are limitations as to what can be done within the system itself due to different hardware/software constraints. If splitting up a set bonus to include all those different components is not possible then how about making Master Strike/Ravage usable while mobile? I know this has been suggested by quite a few people as Master Strike/Ravage is used (or at least attempted, Sorry Watchman/Annihilation) readily in all three specs. This would aid in up-time and quite possibly grant a small DPS increase to each spec across the board.

One of the things I have not yet read here (unless I missed it) regarding the Set Bonuses is this. It's been stated that we will be increasing to level 65 and will be gaining additional abilities. If this is indeed the case will these new abilities be something looked at for potential Set Bonus inclusions? As we do not know anything about the new abilities or if they will indeed be incorporated into the Set Bonuses I personally would love to see a bit of a standoff capability from our specs. At the current other melee classes (namely Vanguards/Powertechs and Scoundrels/Operatives) can operate outside the 4 meter range with entire DPS rotations in line with their optimal 4 meter range DPS and lose very little. I would love to see a capability like this introduced into the Sentinel/Marauder lineup. Sentinels and Marauders are both force users after all and the force is not bound to 4 meters right? Seriously though it would be great to see these new abilities usable beyond 4 meters to better help Sentinels/Marauders with standoff as many mechanics we face at the current place us into this very situation quite often. All in all though I appreciate you asking for our input and am excited to see what comes out of this and Knights of the Fallen Empire. Thanks!

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
07.13.2015 , 09:49 PM | #28
say make 2 peice increase dps by 5% from berserk would put on par with the hold set.

Other wise i seen nothing wrong with set, marauders problems a sololy due to screwup utility tree we have that has to many things in there that are mandatory like brazen and hole cripple slash bs you threw at us, we already had 10m ranged slow attack it was called, deadly throw and WAS BASELINE and carnage could spec that into root.

Brooding as basline would be nice along with brazen would free utility up so we can both mobility for range slow/root or cleanse either way fix our gosh darn utilty tree, Brazen need to be made BASELINE AT MINIMUM

If anything you should left DT there and add the root carnage had to utility.

DarkDisturbed's Avatar


DarkDisturbed
07.13.2015 , 10:07 PM | #29
Fix Watchman/Anni and we can talk set bonuses. Stop killing unique specs in an attempt to make it easier for you to balance.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
07.14.2015 , 04:18 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Bahadori View Post
^^^ Totally agree and disappointed in some of the responses people are giving here. Lets be constructive... otherwise just go create another "Sentinels/Marauders Suck" "The Class is Dead" post that populate the Sentinel/Marauder forums
Marauders/Sentinels were constructive for 80+ pages in the two different threads they made for the two patches they were being updated in and bioware took all that and insulted the entire player base. Can you really play the players for being bitter?