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Can any one suggest a similar game that's not dieing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Can any one suggest a similar game that's not dieing?

SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
11.16.2019 , 04:59 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Do dying games get regular content updates? Do dying games get expansions introducing an entirely new story that obviously has to continue? No, they don't. The very fact that SWTOR has had an entire expansion released, proves that the game is nowhere near maintenance mode and absolutely nowhere near death.

The entire "the game is on its last legs" narrative is absolutely false and based on subjective experiences, not objective, factual data. There is no factual, objective evidence to suggest that SWTOR is nearing its end.

Yes, I agree, the game is not what it used to be. It isn't as huge as it once was, for example like in 2012 when I joined. But in all those years of SWTOR I have seen the game to be stable, incredibly stable in terms of population, content release and general game activity. There have been drops and rises but that's normal with every game. But while the amount of resources and manpower have indeed decreased for SWTOR, to say that it's on it's last legs is absolutely ludicrous and based on highly subjective pieces of information expressed by people that - for some inexplicable reason - frankly want the game to shut down, I believe.

What I'd suggest to you, is to not fall for the doomsayers' rants. I have seen their narrative be repeated year after year ever since I started playing in 2012, it's EXACTLY the same every year. And never have I seen them provide factual, objective data to support their claims, it's always been baseless conjecture, highly subjective and cherry picked observations and ludicrous conspiracy theories. Don't buy into it, because their "SWTOR is dying" narrative is exactly the same as those of the people saying "the world will end on [insert random date] for sure this time". Take it from someone who is nearing his 7 year anniversary of playing this game without any prolonged breaks
I wouldn't know . I never played a game that is 'Dying' or 'got Unplugged and shut down'' at some point .

I think you misunderstood something .

You are telling me not to fall for the Doomsayer . And my point is ''If you think the doomsayer are too negative or you think they should argue their doom saying one way or another, then in a way what you are doing is :
1- Asking a doomsayer to argue or ''Prove'' their points is just dragging the negative in a long debate that lead nowhere . It just make a stinky smear..bigger .
2- I also think that a doomsayer would be entitled to say ''All them thriving stuff you talking about ? how about your prove it with DATA too ?''

and last, I think both Doomsayer and ''Game is thriving' are like the force . Both are extreme . Peoples have every right to be frustrated . They are paying customers .

The more you lift your shield to defend this game, the more you add to the fuel .

Me ? I don't care either way. I'm like some players, mostly frustrated and thats why my sub is so so lol

I also don't care if the game is on its last leg, on life support, in zombie mod..or is Thriving and a success .

I see the stuff in the game, and then I see the ''Checking In'' from the Dev and that tell me what I need to know .

Quote:
Do dying games get regular content updates? Do dying games get expansions introducing an entirely new story that obviously has to continue? No, they don't. The very fact that SWTOR has had an entire expansion released, proves that the game is nowhere near maintenance mode and absolutely nowhere near death.
1- In comparaison to other MMO the 'Regular' isn't that regular . But let's skip that one .

2- I wouldn't call Onslaught an expansion, its way too short for what an expansion is supposed to be . And I'm not using the term 'Expansion'' referring to SOR or Rise of the Hutt, but older games that had expansions .

3- I wouldn't call it 'Thriving' either though, so what do you call a game that keep tweaking and breaking stuff with every ''Regular'' content added , and when they finally ''Check In'' they mention the issues that peoples had like ''Not being able to loggin'' as MINOR ISSUE ? What do you call that ??

And my issue ? This 'Thriving' game with it's 'Thriving' Dev ? They didn't even drop a word about the bugs in said 'expansion' . I played it 3 times, Twice on Imp and once on repb and its buggy like hell . I can't play it like that. Not when I keep dying cose my companion are frozen on the spot, Lana romance is completely missing (On Imp side), and the lag! I had that kind of lag back in the day when I was running Swtor on a potatoe computer and had to lower all graphic . But that was ages ago...

So yeah, I'm pretty much in Limbo . Are they gonna reset the expansion ? Add something on Odessen for the missing cutscene ?

See what I mean ?
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
11.16.2019 , 05:26 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by SerraShar View Post
I wouldn't know . I never played a game that is 'Dying' or 'got Unplugged and shut down'' at some point .

I think you misunderstood something .

You are telling me not to fall for the Doomsayer . And my point is ''If you think the doomsayer are too negative or you think they should argue their doom saying one way or another, then in a way what you are doing is :
1- Asking a doomsayer to argue or ''Prove'' their points is just dragging the negative in a long debate that lead nowhere . It just make a stinky smear..bigger .
2- I also think that a doomsayer would be entitled to say ''All them thriving stuff you talking about ? how about your prove it with DATA too ?''

and last, I think both Doomsayer and ''Game is thriving' are like the force . Both are extreme . Peoples have every right to be frustrated . They are paying customers .

The more you lift your shield to defend this game, the more you add to the fuel .

Me ? I don't care either way. I'm like some players, mostly frustrated and thats why my sub is so so lol

I also don't care if the game is on its last leg, on life support, in zombie mod..or is Thriving and a success .

I see the stuff in the game, and then I see the ''Checking In'' from the Dev and that tell me what I need to know .


1- In comparaison to other MMO the 'Regular' isn't that regular . But let's skip that one .

2- I wouldn't call Onslaught an expansion, its way too short for what an expansion is supposed to be . And I'm not using the term 'Expansion'' referring to SOR or Rise of the Hutt, but older games that had expansions .

3- I wouldn't call it 'Thriving' either though, so what do you call a game that keep tweaking and breaking stuff with every ''Regular'' content added , and when they finally ''Check In'' they mention the issues that peoples had like ''Not being able to loggin'' as MINOR ISSUE ? What do you call that ??

And my issue ? This 'Thriving' game with it's 'Thriving' Dev ? They didn't even drop a word about the bugs in said 'expansion' . I played it 3 times, Twice on Imp and once on repb and its buggy like hell . I can't play it like that. Not when I keep dying cose my companion are frozen on the spot, Lana romance is completely missing (On Imp side), and the lag! I had that kind of lag back in the day when I was running Swtor on a potatoe computer and had to lower all graphic . But that was ages ago...

So yeah, I'm pretty much in Limbo . Are they gonna reset the expansion ? Add something on Odessen for the missing cutscene ?

See what I mean ?
I never said the game is "thriving", please point me to where I used the word "thriving". Because I admitted that the game is not in the state that it used to be in and yet you keep insisting I said it "thrived". Don't twist my words to suit your narrative.

As to the data, I have already pointed to the ingame amount of instances having risen a lot as a sign that the game is doing fine. It's not doing great or thriving, no, even I see that, but it absolutely is nowhere near dying or death. The continued support from EA, although smaller than it used to be, is further evidence the game isn't doing too bad.

As to the expansion being small, that is your subjective opinion calling it not an expansion. I fully consider it an expansion and Bioware specifically released it as an expansion. So, no matter how much you'd see it differently, Onslaught is an expansion.

As to the bugs and issues, sure, there's quite a bit of them around. But that's part of every single game or MMO out there. Have you heard about the activity finder issues Elder Scrolls Online is having? And yet somehow, I don't see people screaming that ESO is dead/dying/on its last legs because of some bugs and issues. If the game was indeed in a really bad state, the devs wouldn't even bother to address the issues. And yet, they're making sure that they are fixed before the Christmas holidays, fixing issues however takes time.
The Lecyllath Legacy
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SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
11.16.2019 , 05:50 AM | #13
Quote:
As to the expansion being small, that is your subjective opinion calling it not an expansion. I fully consider it an expansion and Bioware specifically released it as an expansion. So, no matter how much you'd see it differently, Onslaught is an expansion.
I have a bridge to sell you. Its actually a LADDER, but since if you use it the right way, it will work the same way as a small bridge . But I'm gonna call it a BRIDGE regardless .

So If I show you that a BRIDGE is supposed to be this big and a ladder is this big ?

You gonna still see it as a Bridge ? even though, it's really just a ladder .

Quote:
The term DLC is the same as the term expansion. In the context of games, in general, DLC is smaller than Expansion. An expansion would, for example, add a whole new continent with a new race and a whole other story. Quite often, an expansion will containt nearly as much content as the original game.
At least, back in the day that's how it was . Now everything is shrinking..save for the price tag that keep getting fat .

Quote:
As to the bugs and issues, sure, there's quite a bit of them around. But that's part of every single game or MMO out there. Have you heard about the activity finder issues Elder Scrolls Online is having? And yet somehow, I don't see people screaming that ESO is dead/dying/on its last legs because of some bugs and issues. If the game was indeed in a really bad state, the devs wouldn't even bother to address the issues. And yet, they're making sure that they are fixed before the Christmas holidays, fixing issues however takes time.
I don't play that one . Besetha games are ''Fragile'' , they crash in single player like they have the plague . Aint going nowhere near an MMO version of that .

I play the Secret World, GW2 and Star Trek online . I never had BUGS issue in those games .

Havent gotten around to getting the new ''Expansion'' for GW2 though . But the game is smooth .

Never had a lag issue (well save for when everyone gather to take a giant boss lol and you have 50 peoples shooting spells and what not ) . Never had hair go wonky, never had clothes piercing your body .

I know that fixing bugs take time . Its the lack of AKNOWLEDGING the issue that get on my nerve .
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
11.16.2019 , 06:09 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by SerraShar View Post
I have a bridge to sell you. Its actually a LADDER, but since if you use it the right way, it will work the same way as a small bridge . But I'm gonna call it a BRIDGE regardless .

So If I show you that a BRIDGE is supposed to be this big and a ladder is this big ?

You gonna still see it as a Bridge ? even though, it's really just a ladder .



At least, back in the day that's how it was . Now everything is shrinking..save for the price tag that keep getting fat .



I don't play that one . Besetha games are ''Fragile'' , they crash in single player like they have the plague . Aint going nowhere near an MMO version of that .

I play the Secret World, GW2 and Star Trek online . I never had BUGS issue in those games .

Havent gotten around to getting the new ''Expansion'' for GW2 though . But the game is smooth .

Never had a lag issue (well save for when everyone gather to take a giant boss lol and you have 50 peoples shooting spells and what not ) . Never had hair go wonky, never had clothes piercing your body .

I know that fixing bugs take time . Its the lack of AKNOWLEDGING the issue that get on my nerve .
It all comes down to the wide meaning of words, because a ladder can serve as a bridge under the right circumstances. And the term "bridge" simply means something to cross over from one side to another with, it doesn't have to look like the Golden Gate Bridge to be qualified as "bridge". You can use a big log as a bridge, you can use a car as a bridge, or a piece of metal, plastic etc. The word "bridge" doesn't have one fixed meaning, as it can even take of abstract meanings in figurative language.

The same goes with DLC or expansion, in its core it means something that is added to the original core of the game. Onslaught fits that terminology perfectly, because it adds an entirely new story to the game that expands on what there was before. People choose however, to have a very narrow and specific interpretation of the word "expansion", forgetting that it doesn't have a fixed meaning at all. That's why Onslaught is an expansion to me, just like RotHC, SoR and KotFEET were. Sure, it's a smaller and shorter expansion, but it's still an expansion in my books.

About the pricing being the same, you're actually wrong there. I still remember the times where you had to actually pay separately for the expansions. If my memory doesn't deceive me, the individual prices for RotHC and SoR were €12.99,- each. You paid that on top of your subscription fee. Now however, all you need to do is to subscribe once, pay the sub fee only one time with no additional costs, and the expansion is yours to play for however much you want. So, the prices for the expansions did change, a lot even.

Well, frankly, I don't encounter many of the bugs people report to face ingame either. There's been so many times that people made a public outcry on the forums over this bug or that bug, and I was sitting there like "I can play this or that part just fine without bugs". True, there are bugs like the Onderon daily with the final ship log that plagued me as well. But more often than not, I didn't encounter the bugs that others did. But that doesn't mean the bugs aren't there, because they clearly are. So, when you say you didn't encounter any bugs in the games you played, that doesn't mean they're not there. Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean that they're not there. You just were lucky in not encountering them, just like I am lucky in not encountering many of the bugs that others do in SWTOR.
The Lecyllath Legacy
Darth Malgus [EU]
SWTOR Player since November 25th, 2012
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SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
11.16.2019 , 06:46 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
It all comes down to flexibility, because a ladder can serve as a bridge under the right circumstances. And the term "bridge" simply means something to cross over from one side to another with. You can use a big log as a bridge, you can use a car as a bridge, or a piece of metal, plastic etc.

The same goes with DLC or expansion, in its core it means something that is added to the original core of the game. Onslaught fits that terminology perfectly, because it adds an entirely new story to the game that expands on what there was before. People choose however, to have a very narrow and specific interpretation of the word "expansion", forgetting that it doesn't have a fixed meaning at all. That's why Onslaught is an expansion to me, just like RotHC, SoR and KotFEET were. Sure, it's a smaller and shorter expansion, but it's still an expansion in my books.

Well, frankly, I don't encounter many of the bugs people report to face ingame either. There's been so many times that people made a public outcry on the forums over this bug or that bug, and I was sitting there like "I can play this or that part just fine without bugs". True, there are bugs like the Onderon daily with the final ship log that plagued me as well. But more often than not, I didn't encounter the bugs that others did. But that doesn't mean the bugs aren't there, because they clearly are. So, when you say you didn't encounter any bugs in the games you played, that doesn't mean they're not there. Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean that they're not there. You just were lucky in not encountering them, just like I am lucky in not encountering many of the bugs that others do in SWTOR.
Onslaught was buggy for me like hell .

Neksha or Meksha or whatever you call that place, LAG like hell .

Companions freeze during battle . Imagine, I'm on a healer and my Tank is waaaaaaay back twidlling their lightsaber XD then they start moving when the fight is over !

Even Malgus was bugged lol he got stuck at the door! and I was like 'Scared of Tau are we ?? come on Baldy! Lets fight'' and he was going '' No, I'm STUCK AT THE DOOOR!''

Yeah sure, its nice when you don't run into issue yourself . But its sad when you see peoples posting that they cant even login and their patch is stuck at 90% and won't move . And there is no help nowhere to be found, or a word from the Power that be .

Here one of the bug I got .

Spoiler
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
11.16.2019 , 07:19 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by SerraShar View Post
Onslaught was buggy for me like hell .

Neksha or Meksha or whatever you call that place, LAG like hell .

Companions freeze during battle . Imagine, I'm on a healer and my Tank is waaaaaaay back twidlling their lightsaber XD then they start moving when the fight is over !

Even Malgus was bugged lol he got stuck at the door! and I was like 'Scared of Tau are we ?? come on Baldy! Lets fight'' and he was going '' No, I'm STUCK AT THE DOOOR!''

Yeah sure, its nice when you don't run into issue yourself . But its sad when you see peoples posting that they cant even login and their patch is stuck at 90% and won't move . And there is no help nowhere to be found, or a word from the Power that be .

Here one of the bug I got .

Spoiler
The devs are working on resolving those issues, but it simply requires time. True, more acknowledgement of the bugs being fixed on the forums would help to solve some of the uncertainty that players are feeling. But I guarantee you, the bugs and issues will be fixed. As we both certainly agree, the dev team is much smaller than it used to be. So, it's likely that each dev member takes on multiple tasks and responsibilities. These have to be mitigated between developing new content, maintaining the just released content and fixing any issues and bugs from previous updates and patches. So, I'd urge for patience, as the issues and bugs will be fixed.

That said, yes, I fully agree, more communication on part of the devs would work beneficially towards easing player concerns or at least mentioning that things will be addressed. Although I admit, this has to be a two way street: more communication on these forums from the devs but also more respect from the players towards the devs. Because I see the interactions between devs and players on Twitter and they're much, much more frequent there, but simultaneously also much more respectful.
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Monumenta's Avatar


Monumenta
11.16.2019 , 10:51 AM | #17
This was my first and will probably be my last mmo, and I was shocked when I researched what 'maintenance mode' means to an mmo and how many have had great success and resurgences with 'maintenance' crews, I think our maintenance crew is doing better and giving us more than the online sales promotion team we had before.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
11.16.2019 , 12:27 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Monumenta View Post
This was my first and will probably be my last mmo, and I was shocked when I researched what 'maintenance mode' means to an mmo and how many have had great success and resurgences with 'maintenance' crews, I think our maintenance crew is doing better and giving us more than the online sales promotion team we had before.
Especially since SWTOR isn't *in* maintenance mode by any reasonable definition of the term. GW1 is in maintenance mode - minor bugfixes, server admins making sure everything runs correctly, and so on, with (almost) no new content at all.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
11.16.2019 , 06:03 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Especially since SWTOR isn't *in* maintenance mode by any reasonable definition of the term. GW1 is in maintenance mode - minor bugfixes, server admins making sure everything runs correctly, and so on, with (almost) no new content at all.
Exactly, if SWTOR was in maintenance mode, we wouldn't have gotten an expansion. That's one of the biggest neon-signs that the game is nowhere near maintenance mode.
The Lecyllath Legacy
Darth Malgus [EU]
SWTOR Player since November 25th, 2012
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Monumenta's Avatar


Monumenta
11.17.2019 , 07:50 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Exactly, if SWTOR was in maintenance mode, we wouldn't have gotten an expansion. That's one of the biggest neon-signs that the game is nowhere near maintenance mode.
I know retooled scrapped content when I see it, but you guys call it whatever you like.

I think Keith and the skeleton crew are doing great, who knows what will happen when they run out of half finished content from the old teams but so far so good.