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May PvP Report


MikeBradley

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Hey All,

 

If you missed the live stream last week talking about the itemization changes planned for 6.0, here is a link to it on Twitch for those who enjoy the chat log (and

for those that don't), check it out for lots of information regarding upcoming changes in September. If you’d like to give feedback on anything PvP related that was (or wasn’t) talked about in the stream, Musco has spun up a thread to gather that feedback.

 

Win Trader Report

 

In May, we caught and punished 18 accounts for win trading or cheating in PvP. We have:

 

 

  • Suspended the accounts for one week
  • Zeroed out all ranked ratings of every character on those accounts
  • Removed all of their ranked PvP Reward Tokens

 

Something I have seen a fair number of questions about is how appeals are handled, by whom, and why so many reversals happen, which leads me to…

 

 

Punishments, Reversals, and Who Decides?

 

I realize that there is a perception on these forums that we reverse many of the punishments that we administer, so let me provide some detail on exactly what is happening. Here is a breakdown of all the accounts we’ve punished for win trading in season 11 and all of the punishments we have reversed. For transparency, if there are any other reversals this season, I will include an updated number in future monthly reports.

 

So far in season 11, we have actioned a total of 96 accounts for win trading related offenses. Of those punishments, we have reversed only 5. All 5 of these accounts were reversed because they were all caught in the same reporting error. In this case, these accounts had been caught once, punished, and then (incorrectly) punished again for the same original offense. We reversed only the second punishment, and by every indication that we have, these accounts have since been playing by the rules. Meaning that we actually still hit 96 accounts, those 5 were just incorrectly hit twice.

 

I’ve seen a fair bit of misinformation around who actually handles appeals so let me provide clarity on that process as well. Every appeal that we receive is reviewed by our Live Production team (Keith Kanneg, Eric Musco, and myself), and checked against the data we have gathered. After investigation, if we feel that we’ve made a mistake, only we can reverse the punishment. This decision is made entirely by SWTOR Live Production, and no rating restorations or reversals take place without our express direction.

 

That being said, let me take this time to remind everyone that although live production does have final say in reversal of any actions taken, contacting members of the live team directly is not appropriate. If action is taken against your account it is important that you follow the process outlined in your suspension.

 

 

New way to Report Win trading / Cheating in PvP

 

Per the previous report, we’ve created a new shared email specifically to make it easier to report win trading or cheating in PvP. The email address is pvpReports@swtor.com , and there will be a sticky post explaining the purpose of this email living at the top of this forum. This new email will go to all of SWTOR Live Production and we’re hoping that it opens up a better path for reporting PvP cheating or win trading, especially for those who wish to include image or video evidence. In game reporting will still work as it always has, and we are still looking at possible improvements we could make there, this is simply an additional way to report.

 

As always, I look forward to reading your thoughts, questions, comments, and concerns throughout these forums, and will do my best to address them in these regular reports. Thank you for your patience and for continuing to help me understand what is most important to you.

 

Until next time…

 

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Only 18 accounts and 1 week suspension? Come on 18 players is nothing compared to what is going on currently and 1 week ban is not an actual punishment.

 

I am sure all those 18 accounts are the ones who are throwing not getting advantage of wintrading. Like you did on botter bannig his bots and dont touch cheaters main avounts rating. Sorry but with that fiasco i dont trust your we banned x amount of accounts and resetted all their ratings.

Edited by omeru
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Par for the course. There is no deterrent. A friend of mine told me they made a few toons on Star Forge and said team ranked is nothing but full of wintrading. You guys have only issued a handful of perma bans. Solos aren't fairing any better; getting friends on alts or alt accounts to throw for you on the opposing team and EU is full of literal bots from he who shall not be named.

 

Also, why haven't you guys opened up a dialogue on some of these wintraders seemingly having control on customer support? He who shall not be named has admitted to being employed by one of your EU locations, likely the one in Ireland where your ToS team is based. He has insiders that are aiding and abetting his and his friends' illegal behavior.

 

Ugh I give up :rolleyes:

Edited by ColorfulCaiques
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Every appeal that we receive is reviewed by our Live Production team (Keith Kanneg, Eric Musco, and myself)

 

Well the question is whether you think you really get all the appeals. I mean, I am sure you guys are not the first ones to get these, there must be some staff gathering and forwarding them to you. What the people were concerned about is whether you really get all the appeals and whether “someone” isnt able to resolve it without you knowing about it.

 

Dont get me wrong, I am sure you stand fully behind your staff, but there have been these indications....

Edited by merovejec
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  • Suspended the accounts for one week
  • Zeroed out all ranked ratings of every character on those accounts
  • Removed all of their ranked PvP Reward Tokens

 

These punishments are far too lenient. The suspensions should be much longer, if not permanent. And all of the wintraders' past pvp rewards (flairs, titles, flags, etc) should be removed as well. You are not deterring wintrading at all with these weak punishments. Nothing stops these players from coming back into the game and immediately wintrading again. It seriously makes me wonder whether I should bother wasting the time to report wintraders at all.

 

We reversed only the second punishment, and by every indication that we have, these accounts have since been playing by the rules.

 

One of those accounts that you reversed has wintraded his way to a top 3 spot this season. He's just sneakier about his wintrading now. He came crying on the forums, and he probably came crying to you and Eric, yet he continued to wintrade as soon as his suspension was lifted. Not only that, he kept his top 3 title that he got via wintrading. This kind of stuff is just indefensible.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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i think the punishment is a bit mild, don't you?

 

at least the valor rank should be reset to 1, too. also the entry rank for ranked pvp should be raised,

that the time, until they can trade again, is extended.

 

personally i would wipe out the complete account, with every achievement, every reputation,

all items, all credits, all titles... just keep the cm-items and the level.

 

but we shouldn't underestimate the effect of the leaderboards. if you sort it by rank, everybody could identify the cheaters and wintraders. so let us spread that, to make them even more unpopular.

 

 

but what are they doing now (and since some weeks)?

 

actually they are waiting, until other pvp groups are going offline, so that they can q for ranked, without playing against real opponents. then they are looking, which pve guilds are online and try to talk them into playing some rounds ranked, just for "fun"; with a helpfull and friendly mask.

they also are spreading out, to talk to some directly and do the same, also offering to practice in some custom games. just don't fall for it, because the intention is a different one.

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These punishments are far too lenient. The suspensions should be much longer, if not permanent. And all of the wintraders' past pvp rewards (flairs, titles, flags, etc) should be removed as well. You are not deterring wintrading at all with these weak punishments. Nothing stops these players from coming back into the game and immediately wintrading again. It seriously makes me wonder whether I should bother wasting the time to report wintraders at all.

 

 

100% agree with this.

 

There is no real deterrent to cheating in this game. All of these punishments are a slap on the wrist at best.

 

If you won’t perma ban them, then the minimum ban should be more than 1 week. I would suggest 3 months and be unable to participate in ranked for the rest of the season.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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So, even if you're caught win trading, you keep all the gear and crystals you "earned", and after a week you can go back to win trading again.

 

If you're not going to ban them, how about giving those folks some permanent flair, on all their characters on the account, which can't be removed. Something like pastels of pink and brown. That way people know to keep an eye on their behavior in the future.

 

This current "no accountability" "punishment" system is a example of the systemic failure of why ranked isn't considered fun by the vast majority of pvpers. Hence why it died.

Edited by Severith
quotes around "earned"
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Mike B, thanks for your transparency! You may not deliver a message people want to hear (including me sometimes) but you lay everything out on the table for all to see and for that I think you deserve more credit than any other rep BW has working for them right now that interacts with the playerbase.

 

I am just curious when the conversation is going to turn to gutting this scoring system as well as the very lenient policy of cheating. If for reasons BW cannot explain to us the punishments are to be so lenient, and the scoring system continues to be such an easily manipulated one, eventually BW has to throw in the towel and come up with some other format for ranked.

 

I mean I have seen BW gut and tear apart perfectly working gaming systems from gearing systems to conquest systems that were universally accepted and viewed as successful systems in their own right with just slight flaws that needed adjusted or tweaked. These systems were totally tore out of the game, with zero reflection as to how the players were to feel about such changes.

 

Here there's undoubtedly one of the most flawed scoring systems in any PVP games I have ever seen. Not only that, this monstrosity been given years of time to spread it's filthy turd covered wings over the entire contest of ranked dripping fecal matter on all who participate. For years!

 

enough is enough, some serious dialogue ought to be about the damn scoring system that simply is incapable of deterring cheaters. I get it that BW can't monitor and watch ranked 24/7, then you need to do something to the structure of the contest and stop with the window dressing that simply isn't effective at improving ranked. That's the point here, changes have got to be fruitful and actually create change.

 

As long as ranked is easy to cheat and as long as it is viewed that cheaters get far too leniency and far too slight of punishments, all that is going to happen is the only active players will be subsiders that just funnel the rewards to the same old cheaters that buy those oh-so-needed ranked pixels.

 

Right now, the contest cheaters get to feel warm and special inside rolling around on their virtual reality pixelated treasures while honest players trying to enjoy stiff competition against the best of the best in ranked have to wade through impossible amounts of shenanigans which adds tons of frustration.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

These punishments are like putting lip stick on a pig and the result of these punishments isn't improving the ranked scene. It's time to really consider more serious options to improve both solo and group ranked PVP.

Edited by Lhancelot
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So, even if you're caught win trading, you keep all the gear and crystals you "earned", and after a week you can go back to win trading again.

 

If you're not going to ban them, how about giving those folks some permanent flair, on all their characters on the account, which can't be removed. Something like pastels of pink and brown. That way people know to keep an eye on their behavior in the future.

 

This current "no accountability" "punishment" system is a example of the systemic failure of why ranked isn't considered fun by the vast majority of pvpers. Hence why it died.

 

I guess they are judging the state of the account. If its a new fresh account they might give him a chance to be good again. If its a long time account they should be familiar with the banning policy. At least thats how I understand it.

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We all appreciate the report, it's nice to see something being done.

 

However, I'm really surprised at how light the punishments are as well. It's very discouraging to legit players to see cheaters keep all the credits / crystals / gear advantages they receive / command rating etc from these practices.

Edited by RACATW
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Tougher punishments, less leniency for past offenders please.

 

Pretty sure this is the consensus among most people that are reading this really well written and laid out May PVP report.

 

Seriously, I appreciate the time and effort MikeB puts in here. It doesn't matter if it's favorable reactions or negative, he puts everything on the table for us.

 

More support and representatives like this guy ought to work for BW but I can only imagine the load he has on himself compared to the majority of reps that could be more active but choose to not engage the community.

 

-Thanks Mike!

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These reports don't really mean much if anything since 99% of the time, you refuse to issue perma bans because it'll prevent you from gaining revenue from these cheaters and wintraders, and, you go silent on us and don't respond to any questions or concerns after posting these reports. How do you expect us to take you guys seriously? We need more than words - we need action. At this point I think I'm done. I can't continue to care if BW doesn't care about its honest players. Been gone for a while already but I think I'm not coming back for 6.0. It's been fun. Edited by VaceDemon
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Mike 🅱️,

 

JeZ** is back and spamming the game and forums with his filth.

 

This is why you need to PERMA ban cheats in this game. No semi bans. Lock their damn accounts so they can’t ever come off a ban, even after 12 months.

 

In other woeds, normal people dont want their wrist massaged. At least give the cheaters a slap on the wrist.

Edited by RACATW
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@MikeBradley

 

you told us about the punishment for the caught cheaters and wintraders.

i also think, that you are having a list with the already caught accounts, too.

 

so what is the punishment for the players, ignoring the first warning shot

and going on with new characters, like you could see in the actual leaderboards?

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Hey All,

 

If you missed the live stream last week talking about the itemization changes planned for 6.0, here is a link to it on Twitch for those who enjoy the chat log (and

for those that don't), check it out for lots of information regarding upcoming changes in September. If you’d like to give feedback on anything PvP related that was (or wasn’t) talked about in the stream, Musco has spun up a thread to gather that feedback.

 

Win Trader Report

 

In May, we caught and punished 18 accounts for win trading or cheating in PvP. We have:

 

 

  • Suspended the accounts for one week
  • Zeroed out all ranked ratings of every character on those accounts
  • Removed all of their ranked PvP Reward Tokens

 

Something I have seen a fair number of questions about is how appeals are handled, by whom, and why so many reversals happen, which leads me to…

 

 

Punishments, Reversals, and Who Decides?

 

I realize that there is a perception on these forums that we reverse many of the punishments that we administer, so let me provide some detail on exactly what is happening. Here is a breakdown of all the accounts we’ve punished for win trading in season 11 and all of the punishments we have reversed. For transparency, if there are any other reversals this season, I will include an updated number in future monthly reports.

 

So far in season 11, we have actioned a total of 96 accounts for win trading related offenses. Of those punishments, we have reversed only 5. All 5 of these accounts were reversed because they were all caught in the same reporting error. In this case, these accounts had been caught once, punished, and then (incorrectly) punished again for the same original offense. We reversed only the second punishment, and by every indication that we have, these accounts have since been playing by the rules. Meaning that we actually still hit 96 accounts, those 5 were just incorrectly hit twice.

 

I’ve seen a fair bit of misinformation around who actually handles appeals so let me provide clarity on that process as well. Every appeal that we receive is reviewed by our Live Production team (Keith Kanneg, Eric Musco, and myself), and checked against the data we have gathered. After investigation, if we feel that we’ve made a mistake, only we can reverse the punishment. This decision is made entirely by SWTOR Live Production, and no rating restorations or reversals take place without our express direction.

 

That being said, let me take this time to remind everyone that although live production does have final say in reversal of any actions taken, contacting members of the live team directly is not appropriate. If action is taken against your account it is important that you follow the process outlined in your suspension.

 

 

New way to Report Win trading / Cheating in PvP

 

Per the previous report, we’ve created a new shared email specifically to make it easier to report win trading or cheating in PvP. The email address is pvpReports@swtor.com , and there will be a sticky post explaining the purpose of this email living at the top of this forum. This new email will go to all of SWTOR Live Production and we’re hoping that it opens up a better path for reporting PvP cheating or win trading, especially for those who wish to include image or video evidence. In game reporting will still work as it always has, and we are still looking at possible improvements we could make there, this is simply an additional way to report.

 

As always, I look forward to reading your thoughts, questions, comments, and concerns throughout these forums, and will do my best to address them in these regular reports. Thank you for your patience and for continuing to help me understand what is most important to you.

 

Until next time…

 

 

 

This is all fine and dandy, but it still doesn't solve another problem: Elo Scale Manipulation of others. The pops really aren't frequent enough and the population definitely isn't enough to compensate for how often match throwing, queue dodging and other things happen. Because of these the risk of simply "cheating" is negated because people will just play something else because "game is dead." Until you start removing the losses or nullifying the 3v4 2v4 etc matches so that people don't get desperate this issue will only get worse. If you need to put a brutal AI in place of the nothing. That way if someone throws for their friend, their friend gets owned instead.

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Ranked is a competitive environment.

 

Pretty sure u dont get away with just a slap on the wrist in other competitive environments.

 

1 week ban is absolutely nothing. Gut the account of anything that is not purchased with real money. Delete all the credits, all the gear, every item in all cargo holds, all achievements, all titles, all ranked rewards.

 

U dont get to keep the **** u cheated for.

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