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Status of Tank Classes in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Status of Tank Classes in PvP

mmmbuddah's Avatar


mmmbuddah
06.16.2017 , 06:17 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by stoopicus View Post
The problem with this is not in the stats or viability, though. There's just simply no role for a tank in the current WZs. And even if there was, they would just get CCed while the enemy kills their healer (or vice versa.)

Think about it. What role really exists for pure, traditional tanks now? They make bad lone guards (except PT), as they nearly always can get sapcapped. Duo guarding they are fine, but any two classes are fine for that.

Attacking, they do very poor damage and are basically ignorable except for the fact that they are guarding someone else and CCing the enemy.

They are excellent (really, really good) at defending in a group, but so are other specs, and no one comes close to RDPS for that at the moment anyway.

Completely aside from any kind of gearing, traditional tanks simply don't have a role in SWTOR PvP at the moment. Their lack of viability stems much more from the fact that that are simply a bad choice for nearly any role in the current WZ design than it stems from any balance issues. There is just nothing for them to do that other specs cannot do better.
Which is why guard needs to be locked to tank spec, and its effectiveness and that of taunting should be effected by shield/absorb/defense. If you skank tank, then it should be waaaaaaaaay less effective. THEN and only then would we see them becoming valid again
Jade D.
That Republic Trans Girl You Love

stoopicus's Avatar


stoopicus
06.16.2017 , 06:44 AM | #12
I think they would need to fundamentally change how taunting works in pvp for it to really matter. I could get behind your suggested guard change, sure, but I don't think it is compelling enough.

Bobby_McDonald's Avatar


Bobby_McDonald
06.17.2017 , 01:05 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Kirpputori View Post
From my personal experience

Hardest: Assassin
Best: Assassin

Easiest: Powertech
Worst: Powertech

Juggernaut lands in between on both.
I tried them all in ranked and regs, all of them as skank tanks. And this post above is absolutely my experience as well. Juggernaut is rather more close to sins performance than being right in the middle I would say.

Aetideus's Avatar


Aetideus
06.17.2017 , 03:51 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Kirpputori View Post
From my personal experience

Hardest: Assassin
Best: Assassin

Easiest: Powertech
Worst: Powertech

Juggernaut lands in between on both.
The best asset of PT Tank is the large AoE dps. With a healer is devastating.
As for a previous post, gearing must take in account several features and may take time.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.17.2017 , 01:01 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by mmmbuddah View Post
Which is why guard needs to be locked to tank spec, and its effectiveness and that of taunting should be effected by shield/absorb/defense. If you skank tank, then it should be waaaaaaaaay less effective. THEN and only then would we see them becoming valid again
Agreed I played a tank in pvp in 4.x. 5.0 with guard on dps I swapped to vigi. Sure I don't eat damage as much as I used to and I lost hilt bash. But hey I kill a lot more. For personal reasons I refuse to skank tank. Mostly to kill the crappy mercs who reroll ed because "woo merc op". Lol

Helmutmengele's Avatar


Helmutmengele
06.18.2017 , 06:29 AM | #16
I played all three and my Sin is by far my favorite. Lots of utilities and ways to employ. I would disagree with the notion that Tanks don't have a role in PvP. Besides mind control (taunts) and guard, you can always find someway to get involved. I almost always have some kind of stun or interrupt off of cooldown. Force Pull, Whirlwind, Spike, Stun, and Force Wave give you lots of ways to contribute. These combined with tank survivability and force cloak, I count on spending the vast majority of my time on the map and out of the spawn cycle.

The thing about tanks in PvP is that their contributions are not as tangible at the finish screen. Almost always low DPS and protection scores can be situational. I prefer winning over personal stats though.

Glocko's Avatar


Glocko
06.18.2017 , 07:04 AM | #17
They would be viable if they buff their damage by 400%. Maybe the next round of buffs will finally make Jugg tanks playable. Jugg Tanks need to be in the 4500-5500 DPS range instead of 3000-3500

Ivanna Hurtyu
Rekt Shallube

Zolxtren's Avatar


Zolxtren
06.18.2017 , 10:11 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Glocko View Post
They would be viable if they buff their damage by 400%. Maybe the next round of buffs will finally make Jugg tanks playable. Jugg Tanks need to be in the 4500-5500 DPS range instead of 3000-3500

Ivanna Hurtyu
Rekt Shallube
my tank geared tank specced juggernaut does almost the same dmg as my Lighting sorc in PvP in the same ilvl gear...

and no this is not a nerf juggs post.... its a buff the damn dps sorcs post damn it.......

stoopicus's Avatar


stoopicus
06.18.2017 , 07:40 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Zolxtren View Post
my tank geared tank specced juggernaut does almost the same dmg as my Lighting sorc in PvP in the same ilvl gear...

and no this is not a nerf juggs post.... its a buff the damn dps sorcs post damn it.......
Hah!

The funny thing is that what he was asking for is easily done now. Just roll skank tank. I mean duh, "Gee I wish my tank DPS was higher" is EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE ROLL SKANK TANK. The survivability tradeoff is relatively small and the damage is a much stronger contribution for your team.

It takes considerable effort to skank tank (you need to gear up twice, once for the tank set and once for the DPS mods and enhancements - any of you that have complained about Galactic Command, think about that for a second) but IMO it's the strongest contribution to your team you can make as a Jugg (or for that matter a 'Sin tank) right now.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
06.20.2017 , 10:58 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by stoopicus View Post
The problem with this is not in the stats or viability, though. There's just simply no role for a tank in the current WZs. And even if there was, they would just get CCed while the enemy kills their healer (or vice versa.)

Think about it. What role really exists for pure, traditional tanks now? They make bad lone guards (except PT), as they nearly always can get sapcapped. Duo guarding they are fine, but any two classes are fine for that.

Attacking, they do very poor damage and are basically ignorable except for the fact that they are guarding someone else and CCing the enemy.

They are excellent (really, really good) at defending in a group, but so are other specs, and no one comes close to RDPS for that at the moment anyway.

Completely aside from any kind of gearing, traditional tanks simply don't have a role in SWTOR PvP at the moment. Their lack of viability stems much more from the fact that that are simply a bad choice for nearly any role in the current WZ design than it stems from any balance issues. There is just nothing for them to do that other specs cannot do better.
Do away with Dmg completely Tanks should be a support role. For the Sith/Jedi adopt battle meditations. They channel buffs the longer the channel the greater the buff 5% more dmg or 3% more heals etc etc. Remove barrier from sorcs and replace with something that mitigates dmg. Then give Tanks the barrier with set number of hit points (basically alot) that protects the channel-er. Dmg done to the barrier mitigates xx% what don't get mitigated causes push back on channeled ability (i.e the 5% might drop to 3.3%) and would have to build back up. Could still taunt and guard as well. Utilities could allow multiple channeled buffs/de-buffs at cost of reduced hit-points to barrier so you could channel say a Debuff to ACC 4%, speed buff of 3%^ and DMG buff 6%.
Other utilities remove push-back effect , reduce decay rate of a buff when not channeling, increase rate of buff/debuff build, cloaking or obfuscation, wracking nightmares which causes other channelers to fumble to loose focus (could do a mini game here channler's have to dismiss phantoms while also maintaining buffs) dynamic buffs which offer huge boost but need to be managed (i.e a mini-game that when a certain optimum point is reached the channeler marks it giving the best buff possible miss it and you get reduced buff) these things would give A REASON to want them in matches also something meaning full to do in matches and completely remove the need to balance Tank dmg. The same could be applied to BH as well just change nomenclature and make it more mercenary'ish IMHO to have tanks doing dmg breaks the trinity by having them Channel buffs/de-buffs you keep them relevant and wanted and remain true to trinity. Of course i am also not stating that they do no dmg at all they could still have basic attack s and stuns etc etc. So if their barrier falls they can do some dmg maybe take out a weakened opponent but it shouldn't be able to compete with a pure DPS spec by any means.