Somanliuus Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) I've been playing swtor for the last year. Ive completed all content with the exception on NiM EC (on kephiss). 4 BiS 61 toons, 1BiS 63 toon. What gripes me (but seemingly noone else) is people paying to win. An no, Im not talking about the Cartel Market. Im talking about people crafting 63 armorings/mods/enhancements. My old guild had 4-5 regular raiders that bought, with credits, a full set of dread gear. I was against this for the simple fact- not once did we set foot in TfB HM at that time. So going in on our first run most people had BiS 63 gear. I have nothing against people who down this raid crafting the gear because they earned it. But a bunch of people who have a hard time downing EC hard in dread gear should not be buying it, they should work for it. Or am I horribly wrong? Edited February 2, 2013 by Somanliuus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radzkie Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Hey, I'm the same as you. I cleared/farmed the games content to earn my dread guard set on my main. However, I do not mind people crafting and buying 63 mods/enchantments/armorings. If that's how they want to play the game, so be it. I bought some 63 mods for my alt, in fact, and will continue to do so. I just wouldn't want to gear up a character purely that way. For one, you don't get the set bonus with crafted armorings. Secondly, to me, it's not rewarding/fulfilling. Edited February 2, 2013 by Radzkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somanliuus Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 And then whats the point of running terror hard or denova nightmare? Bragging rights? I prefer to run knowing I will get an upgrade from the op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radzkie Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) And then whats the point of running terror hard or denova nightmare? Bragging rights? I prefer to run knowing I will get an upgrade from the op. I have all the best in slot 63's for my mains class. So I will not be getting any upgrades on my main until the game comes out with new gear, but I still make those runs. I do it to help other people in my guild gear up(which is important to me), get credits, crafting items, and, naturally, for bragging rights. ...And ya' know, I still really have fun making those runs because I get to hang out with my fellow guildies. They're a blast. But I do see your point in this. Edited February 2, 2013 by Radzkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steave Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 And then whats the point of running terror hard or denova nightmare? Bragging rights? I prefer to run knowing I will get an upgrade from the op. For fun? My main is full DG both for tanking and DPS, but I run them anyway because I like doing it. If you don't find that fun, why play the game at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargonglok Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 and if they remove these form crafting? then crafting becomes something you do while lving, and then forget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendValor Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Can't say I agree with the OP, sounds very petty to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) No, I couldn't care less that people who aren't necessarily raiding TFB HM and the like are getting 150 rating gear crafted. Why should I? What they do is their business. If people want to blow literally millions of credits per item to get things crafted and advance their gear, it makes no difference to me. It doesn't detract from my experience, nor does doing so let you stroll through current end tier content effortlessly downing bosses, despite what some people seem to believe. You'll have a slight performance advantage compared to when using black hole equipment. That's it. You aren't 'paying to win'. You aren't invalidating the challenge those encounters present. Stop being melodramatic. Having to adhere to some arbitrary definition of 'working for your items' is something I literally cannot wait to die a much deserved death, especially considering that "work" in endgame situations I've been a part of - and ToR is absolutely no exception - generally translated into "grind, grind, grind". Edited February 2, 2013 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyana Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I can see your point and today talked to friends about this very topic. It is kinda...weird...that you can get the best gear that way without even stepping into operations but, on the other hand, it makes professions useful. Well, some of them. I think (my opinion), they should have put better weapon (63x, lets say) in TFB HM and even better in EC NM (63y, lets say). Only weapon, so it keeps the spirit of "being awarded". I will just point out that, even when I get all 63 gear, I will still keep running operations 'cos I love them. I am still doing KP and EV even if there is nothing I need in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslan Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I can understand a couple of pieces from the top tier being craftable, maybe mods and enhancements only. But you shouldn't be able to craft and GTN purchase the best gear in the game w/o stepping foot into the operation. Why not allow the crafting of elite war hero and let people craft and GTN sell that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 And then whats the point of running terror hard or denova nightmare? Bragging rights? I prefer to run knowing I will get an upgrade from the op. Well Warstalker is clearly bragging rights since if you beat it in 2:01 instead of >2:00 you would still get the same gear. So to a large extent, yes it is a sense of accomplishment rather than gear that motivates many players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steave Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I can understand a couple of pieces from the top tier being craftable, maybe mods and enhancements only. But you shouldn't be able to craft and GTN purchase the best gear in the game w/o stepping foot into the operation. Why not allow the crafting of elite war hero and let people craft and GTN sell that? I wouldn't mind that, but the obvious difference is that PVE gear is used to fight NPCs, so if you choose to "earn" your gear or craft it only affects you and your team. PVP gear is used to fight players, so it affects the enemy team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendValor Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Also, it's not like being fully optimized in 63's will automaticly make you invincible. You still have to know how to play your character well and the boss mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Also, it's not like being fully optimized in 63's will automaticly make you invincible. You still have to know how to play your character well and the boss mechanics ^^^ This. 100 times this. A guy who bought a full DG set and then walked straight into 16 Man NiM EC would have a very very very small chance of getting the Warstalker title. Or downing 16 man NiM EC Kephess. Or 8 man NiM EC Kephess for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanare Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hey there, I am Kanre I am GM of Friendly Fire who are currently ranked 1 in the world of 16 man. We have cleared all content / farm all content, we have every single res for mods, enhancements, armouring’s, hilts and barrels from new content. We do not mind at all that people can buy these we actually really like it , however we are very pissed at Bioware for allowing people buy our mods ,enhancements , armouring’s , and hilts, barrels and place them in to their gear , this then takes off the crafters name and allows the items to be reversed engineered (witch is totally stupid bioware ) , we feel that to have the right to reverse and sell an item, it should not just bought it off the gtn to get the res. I see this as stealing, and don’t understand how Bioware has not fixed this known bug yet…….., I bet you if you could reverse the shells , of the gear on the cartel market and sell them for creds in the same way it would be fixed in less than a day. I feel people who have not cleared any of the content let alone stepped foot in it , have these resipys that we worked hard to get …. I do not feel that buying gear is paying to win you earn your credits you should spend them on what you want, however I do feel that bioware is penalising those who work to get the recipes by letting any tom dick or harry revers them off the gtn witch kills the market …… bio ware you wander why you need a credit sinks??? it is because people do this and do not raid to spend the credits on repairs, on consumables. Use your brains plz …. And fix this From kanre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenjigreat Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Read my Sig for my opinion on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanare Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 was giving back ground , but feel free to troll , if u get off on it "" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunte Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The actual problem is that the Dread Guard gear is so horribly terribly awfully optimized that some pieces are so bad you dont actually want either mod enhancement or armoring from it so in order to fully gear yourself you have to get the same item over and over because its the only one with the enhancement or mod you want. For example on my Jedi Sentinel the hazmat implats that arent endurance heavy comes with a lot of crit, to offset this i need power mods but unfortunately the ONLY piece of gear that comes with the mod i want is the belt. So i need to get the belt drop like 8 times, great. Thats where the problem really lies and its not like everyone can afford to fully 63 gear themselves, its a lot of stabilizers which incidently drop in tfb and ec anyway. So if they remove the ability to have gear crafted for you they need to make the actual gear that drops better.. a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hey, I'm the same as you. I cleared/farmed the games content to earn my dread guard set on my main. However, I do not mind people crafting and buying 63 mods/enchantments/armorings. If that's how they want to play the game, so be it. I bought some 63 mods for my alt, in fact, and will continue to do so. I just wouldn't want to gear up a character purely that way. For one, you don't get the set bonus with crafted armorings. Secondly, to me, it's not rewarding/fulfilling. the set bonus doesnt matter because u put the 63 armour mods on a tionese, columi or rakata piece and u have the set bonus, as long u dont mind looking that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Apophis Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Hey there, I am Kanre I am GM of Friendly Fire who are currently ranked 1 in the world of 16 man. We have cleared all content / farm all content, we have every single res for mods, enhancements, armouring’s, hilts and barrels from new content. We do not mind at all that people can buy these we actually really like it , however we are very pissed at Bioware for allowing people buy our mods ,enhancements , armouring’s , and hilts, barrels and place them in to their gear , this then takes off the crafters name and allows the items to be reversed engineered (witch is totally stupid bioware ) , we feel that to have the right to reverse and sell an item, it should not just bought it off the gtn to get the res. I see this as stealing, and don’t understand how Bioware has not fixed this known bug yet…….., I bet you if you could reverse the shells , of the gear on the cartel market and sell them for creds in the same way it would be fixed in less than a day. I feel people who have not cleared any of the content let alone stepped foot in it , have these resipys that we worked hard to get …. I do not feel that buying gear is paying to win you earn your credits you should spend them on what you want, however I do feel that bioware is penalising those who work to get the recipes by letting any tom dick or harry revers them off the gtn witch kills the market …… bio ware you wander why you need a credit sinks??? it is because people do this and do not raid to spend the credits on repairs, on consumables. Use your brains plz …. And fix this From kanre This I agree with 100 % My guild has been farming Terror HM for a long time, I was the first on my server to be able to craft Resolve Armoring 27, I sold 5-6 on gtn then suddenly was there another able to craft it, who not only almost certainly had learned it from me but also lowered the price of the armoring by setting it out for 400k less then me. Within a week was there 15+ able to craft the armoring and the price had been lowered by over 1 million. Its not about the money I lose but about the fact that I spent hundreds of thousands if not millions of credits on repairs and consumables to be able to learn to craft that armoring, someone buying it from gtn should not be able to learn to craft it... It dont care if people choose to gear up their chars by buying the armoring, mods and enhancements, it how I have geared up several alts, but only people that has "earned" it should be able to craft them. Edited February 2, 2013 by Lord_Apophis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanare Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 This I agree with 100 % My guild has been farming Terror HM for a long time, I was the first on my server to be able to craft Resolve Armoring 27, I sold 5-6 on gtn then suddenly was there another able to craft it, who not only almost certainly had learned it from me but also lowered the price of the armoring by setting it out for 400k less then me. Within a week was there 15+ able to craft the armoring and the price had been lowered by over 1 million. Its not about the money I lose but about the fact that I spent hundreds of thousands if not millions of credits on repairs and consumables to be able to learn to craft that armoring, someone buying it from gtn should not be able to learn to craft it... It dont care if people choose to gear up their chars by buying the armoring, mods and enhancements, it how I have geared up several alts, but only people that has "earned" it should be able to craft them. I'm so glad there are others that feel like us well if bioware does not fix guilds like ours will start , not selling on gtn and only sell to trusted players ....and it negatively affect the gtn .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) I remember a time when you could look at a persons gear and get a rough idea of how good they were... Not anymore.. I do agree that you shouldn't be able to RE crafted dread gear mods.... The only person who should be able to sell them is the person who put in the time to get them.. Edited February 2, 2013 by Monoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I remember a time when you could look at a persons gear and get a rough idea of how good they were... Not anymore.. That was never really the case. And if that matters so much, then look at their armourings/equipment shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKeeva Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) I've been playing swtor for the last year. Ive completed all content with the exception on NiM EC (on kephiss). 4 BiS 61 toons, 1BiS 63 toon. What gripes me (but seemingly noone else) is people paying to win. An no, Im not talking about the Cartel Market. Im talking about people crafting 63 armorings/mods/enhancements. My old guild had 4-5 regular raiders that bought, with credits, a full set of dread gear. I was against this for the simple fact- not once did we set foot in TfB HM at that time. So going in on our first run most people had BiS 63 gear. I have nothing against people who down this raid crafting the gear because they earned it. But a bunch of people who have a hard time downing EC hard in dread gear should not be buying it, they should work for it. Or am I horribly wrong? I don't mind this as this actually makes crafting professions useful. Also, given how utterly **** most stock DG pieces are (teeming with 27A and 27B mods and whatnot), min/maxing from drops is next to impossible. You need to custom craft mods to replace those annoying 27A ones with proper 27s. This doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that you can reverse War Hero armorings/mods/enhancements into molecular stabilizers, from which you can craft BiS PvE gear. PvP should not be the fastest way to obtain BiS PvE armor. I know you can reverse engineer Black Hole items too into stabilizers but come on. 875 warzone commendations you can get in a day. Sometimes twice or three times as many. Alone. 50 Black Hole comms would take 3 Operations and the Rakghoul weekly or 10 daily hard modes. And you need to be in a team for that. I think it's a problem when PvP becomes to way to get PvE armor.... Edited February 2, 2013 by CommanderKeeva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 How I read OP's post was like this: "Everyone can grind materials to get BiS 63 quite fast, but it does not give them necessary skills for EC NiM." I also picked a subtle hint about him wanting people to progress operations to actually learn how to play. Once again: skill > gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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