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TLJ: My personal take


TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.06.2018 , 01:25 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by AlienEyeTX View Post
I disagree with your assessment of the treatment of men in the film. Every one of those three them had an important lesson to learn and every one of them ended up stronger in the end. Poe learned how to be a better leader and understand the sacrifices that must be made. Finn learned to think of others and to stop running away from his problems. Luke learned how to shoulder the burden of being the legend that the galaxy was in need of. That's what the middle movie of a trilogy is for.

And think about the women: they did wonderful things, but they all also had their failings. Holdo lost most of the Resistance. Leia caused Poe to lose trust in leadership (Holdo, too, but Leia broke the trust initially when she berated and demoted him). Rey grew with the Force, but now she doesn't have direction since Luke is gone. And it makes sense that Rey makes fewer mistakes... she's the hero, just like Luke was in the OT.

And, no, the movie wouldn't hold up as well on its own. That's the thing about being a part of a larger story, to truly appreciate it, you need to see how the whole story comes together. Think about it, ESB is the best movie of the saga, but it wouldn't make any sense all on its own.

Oh, and I doubt RJ attacked you personally. If you see yourself in his words, then that says more about how you see yourself than how anyone else sees you.
I don't think he attacked me personally. What ticks me off is that he attacked anyone at all. Take Zach Snider for instance. Many disliked his vision for the DCEU. Do you see him out there blasting anyone? Nope.

Maybe RJ should of done the same.

But something else also jumped out at me. You say Finn learned not to run away. Umm excuse me, didn't he ALREADY learn that lesson when he faced off against Kylo in TFA? Why did Finn regress to have to learn that lesson all over again?

Also Poe needing to learn that lesson. Sure any commander needs to learn when to push and when not to, but the way the film went about it was all well wrong. A better leader SHOWS their subordinates how to do that. Not berate them in front of his peers and when asking a simple question of " what is the plan, what are my orders?" Being basically told , you're a hot shot man and there is no need for you to know, is asinine.

Even demoted at that time he's still one of the senior officers Holdo has left. You'd think she'd atleast give him the bare bones right? I mean hell Janeway on Voyager told the junior man of her senior staff the plan. You'd think Holdo would do the same?

Sorry this mess could of been far better written and actually FLOW from the last movie.

Cause here's the thing. ESB matches WAY better with ANH than TLJ does sith TFA.
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AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
08.06.2018 , 04:53 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
I don't think he attacked me personally. What ticks me off is that he attacked anyone at all. Take Zach Snider for instance. Many disliked his vision for the DCEU. Do you see him out there blasting anyone? Nope.

Maybe RJ should of done the same.

But something else also jumped out at me. You say Finn learned not to run away. Umm excuse me, didn't he ALREADY learn that lesson when he faced off against Kylo in TFA? Why did Finn regress to have to learn that lesson all over again?

Also Poe needing to learn that lesson. Sure any commander needs to learn when to push and when not to, but the way the film went about it was all well wrong. A better leader SHOWS their subordinates how to do that. Not berate them in front of his peers and when asking a simple question of " what is the plan, what are my orders?" Being basically told , you're a hot shot man and there is no need for you to know, is asinine.

Even demoted at that time he's still one of the senior officers Holdo has left. You'd think she'd atleast give him the bare bones right? I mean hell Janeway on Voyager told the junior man of her senior staff the plan. You'd think Holdo would do the same?

Sorry this mess could of been far better written and actually FLOW from the last movie.

Cause here's the thing. ESB matches WAY better with ANH than TLJ does sith TFA.
See, now you're admitting that the even the female characters made mistakes and were not infallible. That was part of my point.

This movie did a great job of bringing almost everyone's weaknesses to the surface and a LOT of people suffered and died as a result. Most of the characters also grew and learned in the end. That was the entire point of the movie. Again, yes, parts of it could have been handled better, but it got everyone to where they need to be heading into the final installment.

And it was still a good flick. Not the best SW movie ever, but being in the top half of 10 films is still alright.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
08.09.2018 , 01:04 PM | #73
You know, except for Rose, who stopped Finn from taking out the enemy and saving lots of people, just because she didn't want him to die, but was willing to let many others die.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.09.2018 , 01:05 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
You know, except for Rose, who stopped Finn from taking out the enemy and saving lots of people, just because she didn't want him to die, but was willing to let many others die.
DING DING DING!!! Along with the absolute worst kiss scene in any form of media EVER.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.09.2018 , 01:06 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by AlienEyeTX View Post
See, now you're admitting that the even the female characters made mistakes and were not infallible. That was part of my point.

This movie did a great job of bringing almost everyone's weaknesses to the surface and a LOT of people suffered and died as a result. Most of the characters also grew and learned in the end. That was the entire point of the movie. Again, yes, parts of it could have been handled better, but it got everyone to where they need to be heading into the final installment.

And it was still a good flick. Not the best SW movie ever, but being in the top half of 10 films is still alright.
Oh they did make mistakes, but for the most part suffer ZERO adverse consequences.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
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DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
08.09.2018 , 01:56 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
You know, except for Rose, who stopped Finn from taking out the enemy and saving lots of people, just because she didn't want him to die, but was willing to let many others die.
From how that scene was set up, I took it that Finn wasn't going to actually accomplish anything except getting himself vaporized well before doing any damage to the weapon. That's what Rose was preventing, not a successful kamikaze attack.
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AhsokaTanorules's Avatar


AhsokaTanorules
08.09.2018 , 03:47 PM | #77
I despised Force Awakens with a passion but I ddin't mind TLJ and thought it was better than 2, 3 and 7. I just feel the cancer fall out from 7 was so bad it corrupted whatever potential 8 could have had to save the NT.

AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
08.09.2018 , 03:58 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by AhsokaTanorules View Post
I despised Force Awakens with a passion but I ddin't mind TLJ and thought it was better than 2, 3 and 7. I just feel the cancer fall out from 7 was so bad it corrupted whatever potential 8 could have had to save the NT.
It's almost like people were "waiting to pick a fight." This fandom drives me nuts sometimes with people just trying to "prove" that they are more hardcore or a bigger nerd than anyone else.

Just enjoy the flippin' movies. If you don't, fine. Leave the rest of us to enjoy them!
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