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KOTFE, my thoughts


Gokkus's Avatar


Gokkus
04.22.2016 , 03:21 AM | #11
I really like it, the story is nice. Though Marr
Spoiler


However I miss exploring, side-quests and interesting replayability.

On a side note: those people who say that choices dont matter, I will never understand. Honestly with the Koth story it matters quite significantly wouldnt you say? What else do you want? Its impossible for every choice to put you on a different path because the amount of outcomes would quickly go into the absurd numbers. 3 choices --> 8 outcomes, 6 choices --> 64 outcomes. Even with overlapping outcomes you cannot realistically expect this. Not to mention the problems with SWTOR canon.
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lilathrone's Avatar


lilathrone
04.22.2016 , 04:02 AM | #12
I really liked the first package (chapter 1.-9.), it was fast paced, interesting, sometimes funny and engaging. It was as close to Kotor quality as it can get. Since then, i don't like new chapters that much, because these have turned into recruitment missions and it doesn't really drive the story forward. But overall, in my opinion Kotfe is the best solo content we got so far. It's just a pity that the chapters aren't replayable.
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BorisKarloffe's Avatar


BorisKarloffe
04.22.2016 , 07:58 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Gokkus View Post
I really like it, the story is nice. Though Marr
Spoiler


However I miss exploring, side-quests and interesting replayability.

On a side note: those people who say that choices dont matter, I will never understand. Honestly with the Koth story it matters quite significantly wouldnt you say? What else do you want? Its impossible for every choice to put you on a different path because the amount of outcomes would quickly go into the absurd numbers. 3 choices --> 8 outcomes, 6 choices --> 64 outcomes. Even with overlapping outcomes you cannot realistically expect this. Not to mention the problems with SWTOR canon.
You complain about lack of replayability, but then a sentence later are wondering why anyone would complain about choices not mattering?

1. "Choices that matter" was a big selling point of Bioware's for the new story-based approach to developing content. Having one consequence for 12 chapters of content is pretty pathetic.

2. Just because they can't develop long term consequences for everything doesn't mean there can't be more immediate consequences for actions the PC takes (i.e. different dialogue lines, different characters participating in events, more mail, aside conversations with npcs on Odessan)

3. If they can't develop any consequences for anything, they should just make one long cutscene and call it KotFE:the Movie. Seems more than a little shady to charge people monthly installments for something they're essentially getting fooled into thinking they affect the outcome in anyway.

4. Having choices matter is one of the things at a core of a good RPG. It's one of the main things that allows you to make that toon "yours". Without it, things degenerate into increasing blandness, which is exactly what has happened. People play through it once to see what happens, then set it aside since there's no reason to take any other characters through it.

5. I refuse to believe that Bioware with the "support of EA, Disney, and Lucasfilm" can't spend the development to create more variety in the story. We're not talking about some indie startup in someone's garage. Bottom line, they just don't want to invest that much for the long run, and it's becoming more apparent to the player base with each chapter that's released.

Gokkus's Avatar


Gokkus
04.25.2016 , 05:40 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by BorisKarloffe View Post
You complain about lack of replayability, but then a sentence later are wondering why anyone would complain about choices not mattering?

1. "Choices that matter" was a big selling point of Bioware's for the new story-based approach to developing content. Having one consequence for 12 chapters of content is pretty pathetic.

2. Just because they can't develop long term consequences for everything doesn't mean there can't be more immediate consequences for actions the PC takes (i.e. different dialogue lines, different characters participating in events, more mail, aside conversations with npcs on Odessan)

3. If they can't develop any consequences for anything, they should just make one long cutscene and call it KotFE:the Movie. Seems more than a little shady to charge people monthly installments for something they're essentially getting fooled into thinking they affect the outcome in anyway.

4. Having choices matter is one of the things at a core of a good RPG. It's one of the main things that allows you to make that toon "yours". Without it, things degenerate into increasing blandness, which is exactly what has happened. People play through it once to see what happens, then set it aside since there's no reason to take any other characters through it.

5. I refuse to believe that Bioware with the "support of EA, Disney, and Lucasfilm" can't spend the development to create more variety in the story. We're not talking about some indie startup in someone's garage. Bottom line, they just don't want to invest that much for the long run, and it's becoming more apparent to the player base with each chapter that's released.
Choices that matter are one of a whole lot of options to improve replayability, and definitely not one of the easier ones.

Whether a choice matters or not apparently depends on individual views. At least we can agree that there was at least one choice that mattered. But honestly, choices you make in the last chapter matter as wel. Just not as significantly as people would like, but that's a different discussion imo. I think choices DO matter, just not in a satisfactory fashion. So instead of people that keep yelling choices dont matter, I would prefer to see ideas on how they could.

Choices that matter in a story that railroads you as heavily as Kotfe...I dont see how that would even be possible.
Like I said, quest areas, faction specific quests, class quests, exploring. Those are things that increase replayability for me as well, and are far more realistic if they want to continue the heavy railroading.
Jolee: I did it all for the Wookiees.
Revan: The Wookiees?
Jolee: The Wookiees!

VegasTheLost's Avatar


VegasTheLost
04.25.2016 , 08:43 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by BorisKarloffe View Post
Sadly, I think the bigger draw for players continuing to sub is more to do with getting their old comps back since the storyline with Arcann/Vaylin/Valkorion goes nowhere compelling.
Maybe it's just me but I don't get this companion thing. Personally I would be fine with 1 combat/adventure, 1 crafter, 1 mission comp. Frankly, I don't need more but, now I have like 40. And I only can assign 6. OK not 40 but a lot. Why have more than 3, I can't bring a comp to a operation, world boss fight, warzone and for simple questing there is no need for even 1 currently. So right now I just use 1 (mainly the ship droid....) and ditch the rest.
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Solo-Jo's Avatar


Solo-Jo
04.25.2016 , 03:38 PM | #16
For me its the fact that the story is tailored for the force-users especially the Knight and the Warrior. If you ask me they should have spent the time and money on making new class stories and release a new chapter for a different class each month kind of like they are now.

blendedseal's Avatar


blendedseal
04.25.2016 , 03:51 PM | #17
Bioware literally tells us our choices won't matter when we fight Heskal and he keeps saying "Choice is an illusion"

PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
04.25.2016 , 07:04 PM | #18
I think when people say "Choices don't matter" they mean, it doesn't largely affect the story outcome. Sure, one of your infinite list of companions leaves based on a choice, or series of choices you made. That's pretty much the only thing I can point to and say, "Yep, that choice mattered". But only if that companion stays gone. And... it doesn't really matter to anyone who isn't invested in Koth and we don't have enough history/backstory/time with Koth to care much. I would argue anyone truly upset over Koth leaving cares because they got his affection to 50 and feel cheated.

When, at the end of the day, the story turns out pretty precisely the same no matter what you choose? Your choices don't matter. Not on the level that Bioware liked to claim, but the Hype is strong with them. They have, in their SWTOR history, always over promised and under delivered.

If people want their companions back, all they have to do is go to the terminal in Odessen and click. If they are waiting for one specific companion or another, they are at the mercy of Bioware... the over-promise-under-deliverers. Good luck with that.

I have remained subbed because of unfinished business in the game (mostly to do with guilds, and you cannot be a guild master if you are F2P or even Preferred... thus until that business is done they are getting my money). Once that business is concluded however, this story chapter with little to no side content will not be worth $15/month to me and I will cancel until at least the entirety of Season 1 is available to play through. If nothing else of value is put into the game in that time, then I will rinse/repeat and cancel again until Season 2 is complete and available for play through.

I've supported this game with my wallet and my voice for a long time, but they are going down a path that I can't follow them down. They have made too much money to cry "too poor" to develop more than they are right now. Sorry Bioware, but if you aren't going to seriously invest (and at this point, re-invest) in your game, then neither am I.
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
04.25.2016 , 08:05 PM | #19
IMO the phrase "choices that matter" has been misinterpreted; it has come to be an implication that when someone makes a choice any choice they see a significant alteration in the path of the story. There are a LOT of "choices" we make in KotFE not the least of which is...
Spoiler

In some cases we have seen immediate results:
Spoiler
Some may not think that is significant, but it is.

OTOH regardless of that choice the results are not as significant:
Spoiler

And we do not really know the long term ramifications of those choices.

Sure there are plenty of choices that have zero consequence because the story demands that they not. But IMO too many want a big sign saying YES THIS IS A CHOICE THAT WILL HAVE CONSEQUENCES SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE!!!!. Don't you think that takes the excitement away? Wouldn't you rather be surprised that what you thought was an insignificant choice you made in Chapter 5 came back to be significant in chapter 15?
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BorisKarloffe's Avatar


BorisKarloffe
04.26.2016 , 08:03 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
IMO the phrase "choices that matter" has been misinterpreted; it has come to be an implication that when someone makes a choice any choice they see a significant alteration in the path of the story. There are a LOT of "choices" we make in KotFE not the least of which is...
Spoiler

In some cases we have seen immediate results:
Spoiler
Some may not think that is significant, but it is.
1. you use the power with the intent of defeating Arcann, instead he just gets knocked off platform...same as if you hadn't. Utterly lame.
2. while killing npcs is significant, the fact that they're nameless and faceless doesn't help anyone actually care, not to mention it can be easily rationalized away as necessary loss to take out Arcann.
3. It's not players misinterpreting 'choices that matter'. You're trying to change the meaning to fit what Bioware has spit out instead of taking it at face value.

Quote:
OTOH regardless of that choice the results are not as significant:
Spoiler

And we do not really know the long term ramifications of those choices.
1. She ends up saved and wounded regardless of your choices. The only difference is if she finds out now or one chapter later that Valkorion is inside. Again, utterly lame.

Quote:
Sure there are plenty of choices that have zero consequence because the story demands that they not. But IMO too many want a big sign saying YES THIS IS A CHOICE THAT WILL HAVE CONSEQUENCES SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE!!!!. Don't you think that takes the excitement away? Wouldn't you rather be surprised that what you thought was an insignificant choice you made in Chapter 5 came back to be significant in chapter 15?
Really? "The story demands that they not?" More like, Bioware didn't feel like developing anything else to account for them.

The only reason people would be demanding a sign that a choice matters later is precisely because almost all of them haven't up until now. Otherwise, no one would be even wondering if they mattered.

People don't want to pay a sub fee per month for a short cutscene where they are little more than a bystander. It'd be like paying $15 per month to watch 15 min parts of a movie. If people knew they had no say in the outcomes of all these choices, how many people would still sub for it? Might as well just wait for them all to come out at the end of the year. It's probably the reason Bioware has grown silent on the matter of choices even as the clamor for consequences has grown.

Shouldn't have to wait until the entire first season of content is through for a decision you made earlier to actually matter. There's already a number of threads that point out how things could/should have changed already based on player choices, but Bioware is happily railroading us all down the same path.