I'm sure the program as not been deleted. Its in someone's files, someone made a mistake in judgement, now is time to redeem yourselves. links below as all the Facts and details.

http://dulfy.net/2014/12/08/swtor-3-0-powertech-advanced-prototype-and-pyrotech-dps-guide-by-kwerty/

http://dulfy.net/2015/11/22/swtor-4-0-advanced-prototype-powertech-pve-guide-by-kwerty/

In which specific ways is 3.0-4.0 VG PT better?

I assume he is making the mistake that somehow PTs have been nerfed since then, which isnt true, it's just literally almost everything else got buffed so PTs are weaker by comparison. But bringing back 3.0 PTs will not help one iota right now.

I assume he is making the mistake that somehow PTs have been nerfed since then, which isnt true, it's just literally almost everything else got buffed so PTs are weaker by comparison. But bringing back 3.0 PTs will not help one iota right now.

I get what you saying but show proof! I already posted links showing how PT have to be reset, but where is your proof that PT have not been nerf? evidence plz

besides last I check PT was a dual class, not a squishy nondefensively class like it is today.. and went I say proof that means the Combat Proficiencies have to be the same as they were before. You can compare and contrast using the links I provide if you wish to.. up to you..but plz show proof.. aside from exercising your free speech

I assume he is making the mistake that somehow PTs have been nerfed since then, which isnt true, it's just literally almost everything else got buffed so PTs are weaker by comparison. But bringing back 3.0 PTs will not help one iota right now.

This is so wrong it hurts.

I get what you saying but show proof! I already posted links showing how PT have to be reset, but where is your proof that PT have not been nerf? evidence plz

 

 

besides last I check PT was a dual class, not a squishy nondefensively class like it is today.. and went I say proof that means the Combat Proficiencies have to be the same as they were before. You can compare and contrast using the links I provide if you wish to.. up to you..but plz show proof.. aside from exercising your free speech

There are no dual classes in swtor, and have not been for a long time. There are classes that can do two roles, but if you try to both tank and dps at the same time, you will do worse in both.

Here you go:

http://dulfy.net/2016/12/22/swtor-5-0-advanced-prototype-powertech-pve-guide-by-jaymis/

This is so wrong it hurts.

Truth hurts. Tell us how PTs have been significantly nerfed since 3.0 and 4.0. Not comparitively, because that part is true, but actually flat out nerfed in any significant way.

Truth hurts. Tell us how PTs have been significantly nerfed since 3.0 and 4.0. Not comparitively, because that part is true, but actually flat out nerfed in any significant way.

First and foremost PT's lost a lot of ranged capabilities since 3.0. Railshot range was significantly reduced, explosive dart was replaced by shatter slug with a 10m range, death from above replaced by deadly onslaught with 10m range and unload was straight up removed (not the most important ability, but still an allright filler at range). Also Bracer Propellant, which used to increase the range of Flame Burst/Magnetic Blast by 5 meters, has been nerfed to a 2 meter increase. These significant range nerfs have made it a lot more difficult for PT's to kite melee enemies in PvP, since most of your rotation now requires a 10m range, where before you could use nearly all of your abilities at 15 meters. It also makes it easier for ranged enemeies to kite PT's, making PT's a lot worse in PvP. It also means you do less damage when you're forced to move away from a boss in PvE, not the biggest deal, but it still matters.

Hydraulic Overrides was nerfed from a 30 seconds cooldown (25 with utility) to a 45 seconds cooldown (35 with utility). Further affecting their ability to kite and counter being kited, although for the latter Charge was added to PT DPS, however all tanks got in return was Translocate.

Apart from that the internal cooldown on using Shoulder Cannon was increased by a lot (0.5 to 1.5 seconds) and the utility providing healing on usage of Shoulder Cannon has been nerfed as well. This is pretty painful, especially for AP, since it now takes them 10.5 seconds to get all rockets off instead of 3.5 seconds before, and it heals them for 21% of their max health, down from 35%. (And the other specs heal for a 12% of their max health with all rockets, pretty weak for a legendary tier utility if you ask me).

Lastly for tanks Oil Slick has been nerfed from providing a 30% accuracy loss to a 15% accuracy loss. Making the ability a joke in PvE and pretty mediocre in PvP. Oh and tanks recently got a huge damage nerf.

First and foremost PT's lost a lot of ranged capabilities since 3.0. Railshot range was significantly reduced, explosive dart was replaced by shatter slug with a 10m range, death from above replaced by deadly onslaught with 10m range and unload was straight up removed (not the most important ability, but still an allright filler at range). Also Bracer Propellant, which used to increase the range of Flame Burst/Magnetic Blast by 5 meters, has been nerfed to a 2 meter increase. These significant range nerfs have made it a lot more difficult for PT's to kite melee enemies in PvP, since most of your rotation now requires a 10m range, where before you could use nearly all of your abilities at 15 meters. It also makes it easier for ranged enemeies to kite PT's, making PT's a lot worse in PvP. It also means you do less damage when you're forced to move away from a boss in PvE, not the biggest deal, but it still matters.

 

Hydraulic Overrides was nerfed from a 30 seconds cooldown (25 with utility) to a 45 seconds cooldown (35 with utility). Further affecting their ability to kite and counter being kited, although for the latter Charge was added to PT DPS, however all tanks got in return was Translocate.

 

Apart from that the internal cooldown on using Shoulder Cannon was increased by a lot (0.5 to 1.5 seconds) and the utility providing healing on usage of Shoulder Cannon has been nerfed as well. This is pretty painful, especially for AP, since it now takes them 10.5 seconds to get all rockets off instead of 3.5 seconds before, and it heals them for 21% of their max health, down from 35%. (And the other specs heal for a 12% of their max health with all rockets, pretty weak for a legendary tier utility if you ask me).

 

Lastly for tanks Oil Slick has been nerfed from providing a 30% accuracy loss to a 15% accuracy loss. Making the ability a joke in PvE and pretty mediocre in PvP. Oh and tanks recently got a huge damage nerf.

OP specifically listed 2 PVE guides, so I assume that's what he was talking about, and pretty much all the stuff you mentioned were PvP nerfs (and also listed dps guides, not tank guides). If he was talking about PvP and tanks (the 2 things he didnt mention) I'm happy to have a discussion about that, but even there it was just bringing PTs in line with the range that other melee classes have (in fact it still has better range than all the other melee classes).

Shrug. You want 15m range back instead of an actual DCD, then go for it. I dont think it'll really help, but my PT isnt my main (and PvP isnt my focus) so of you think that'll fix its problems than that would be great.

OP specifically listed 2 PVE guides, so I assume that's what he was talking about, and pretty much all the stuff you mentioned were PvP nerfs (and also listed dps guides, not tank guides). If he was talking about PvP and tanks (the 2 things he didnt mention) I'm happy to have a discussion about that, but even there it was just bringing PTs in line with the range that other melee classes have (in fact it still has better range than all the other melee classes).

 

Shrug. You want 15m range back instead of an actual DCD, then go for it. I dont think it'll really help, but my PT isnt my main (and PvP isnt my focus) so of you think that'll fix its problems than that would be great.

I don't think it's fair to write all of these off as PvP nerfs. I can concede that most of these changes were probably made with PvP in mind, but their impact on PvE isn't nonexistant. The range nerfs do hurt in PvE, at times where one has to be at further range, but just doesn't have the ability to dish out the same damage as before. The nerf to hydraulics also has a pretty significant impact on certain bosses, think Revan hm. But most of all both nerfs to Shoulder Cannon are very much relevant in PvE, for AP especially. Having Shoulder Cannon take three times as long to unload all its damage very much affects burst, combined with the nerf to healing per rocket means we're not healing 21% health over 10.5 seconds rather than 35% over 3.5 seconds, pretty significant difference for a defensive if you ask me.

Now I'm not saying these nerfs were undeserved or that turning the clock back is going to fix PTs, I'm just saying that is just not true that PTs have not been nerfed since 3.0. They have been nerfed, multiple times and in ways impacting both PvE and PvP.

Okay so a few things.. PT's don't need a buff in pve. At all. Full stop. AP is the highest sustained (and overall) burst spec it's not funny. It's a bit asinine it even has 10m abilities considering it's doing top tier melee level damage. Not to mention pyro shield and other point blank effects.

As someone who does a lot of high end raiding (5-6) nights of either full clears of nim or apex boss pulls i can see for sure you are just flat out wrong. What PT's lack in DCD's or raid uility, they make up for in raw damage output, with either spec. PT's are basically a requirement for taking down brontes, while pyro doing less there, still has better burn parses than any other melee class aside from the top 0.01% of melee who can do 8k+ at burn. If anything, their needs to be a redesign of AP and somewhat of a nerf to pyro to bring it in line with other classes.

For the reasons said above. It's got the lowest APM requirments for any melee class (which all require more, and are worse)

For pvp, that's a different monster entirely. I'm not a major pvper but i do understand how flimsy the basic design of pt's is. Honestly, they need to scrap the entire idea of a glass cannon, nerf the damage moderately, and provide it with some form of utility and more DCD's. PT tanka should be changed as well, seeing how unviable those tanks are for a lot of fights.

My two cents

I don't think it's fair to write all of these off as PvP nerfs. I can concede that most of these changes were probably made with PvP in mind, but their impact on PvE isn't nonexistant. The range nerfs do hurt in PvE, at times where one has to be at further range, but just doesn't have the ability to dish out the same damage as before. The nerf to hydraulics also has a pretty significant impact on certain bosses, think Revan hm. But most of all both nerfs to Shoulder Cannon are very much relevant in PvE, for AP especially. Having Shoulder Cannon take three times as long to unload all its damage very much affects burst, combined with the nerf to healing per rocket means we're not healing 21% health over 10.5 seconds rather than 35% over 3.5 seconds, pretty significant difference for a defensive if you ask me.

 

Now I'm not saying these nerfs were undeserved or that turning the clock back is going to fix PTs, I'm just saying that is just not true that PTs have not been nerfed since 3.0. They have been nerfed, multiple times and in ways impacting both PvE and PvP.

Thank You!

its exactly what I was trying to say, sorry I didn't provide additional information, and facts are the same in which PT were an excellent mid-range class. In fact they were so good as Tank that guilds will only used 1 skillful PT tank for their Hm ToS ops.

And as mid - ranged dps players were very effective at handling any pvp scenario or could be used as excellent rdps for pve or pvp. Nowadays PT/VG are living proof that someone didn't attend their Math Class.. '

Truth hurts. Tell us how PTs have been significantly nerfed since 3.0 and 4.0. Not comparitively, because that part is true, but actually flat out nerfed in any significant way.

Range for starters. Or did you forget that?

Range for starters. Or did you forget that?

No I didnt. But if you think that moving ranged for a couple abilities fron 15m to 10m was a significant PT nerf in PvE, then you were probably playing it wrong. As someone else pointed out, PT is one of the strongest DPS classes in PvE right now, just as it was in 3.0 and 4.0.

And as I pointed out, if you think getting 15m range back is gonna make it so PTs arent globabled in PvP instead of getting an actual defensive, than more power to you.

I believe the 10m range changes, shoulder cannons, and hydraulics change went into effect in 4.0, yet the OP lists the 4.0 guide as evidence of how the devs should revert the class/spec.

Let's stop trying to interpret what the OP intended with his post, and let him explain it. Because it seems like even he doesn't know what he intended to post.

DPS-wise, the spec is pretty much the same now as it was in 3.x, except for the changes AdjeYo listed.

I believe the 10m range changes, shoulder cannons, and hydraulics change went into effect in 4.0, yet the OP lists the 4.0 guide as evidence of how the devs should revert the class/spec.

 

Let's stop trying to interpret what the OP intended with his post, and let him explain it. Because it seems like even he doesn't know what he intended to post.

 

DPS-wise, the spec is pretty much the same now as it was in 3.x, except for the changes AdjeYo listed.

Okay I get it. You don't like PT/VG, but doesn't mean you have to come here and bash does who do. There are other forums out there, see if you can contribute something positive to those. Don't like the class, don't play it.

Btw: how's nerfing Mercs workout for you?? You ask for Mercs survivability to be tone down and instead they nerf the dps lol.. if I was you I'll stop posting.

Okay I get it. You don't like PT/VG, but doesn't mean you have to come here and bash does who do. There are other forums out there, see if you can contribute something positive to those. Don't like the class, don't play it.

 

Btw: how's nerfing Mercs workout for you?? You ask for Mercs survivability to be tone down and instead they nerf the dps lol.. if I was you I'll stop posting.

I regularly play PT. My first HM ops clears were made on my AP PT.

Our dps is fine.

If you want 15-30 meter range back, then say so. If you want 30% stun DR back then say so. If you want sticky grenade back, then say so. But nobody knows which changes you want back because you didn't say. 3.0 PT is vastly different from 4.0 PT. 4.0 PT and 5.0 PT are virtually the same.

And I don't know what nerfing mercs has to do with me.

I regularly play PT. My first HM ops clears were made on my AP PT.

Our dps is fine.

 

If you want 15-30 meter range back, then say so. If you want 30% stun DR back then say so. If you want sticky grenade back, then say so. But nobody knows which changes you want back because you didn't say. 3.0 PT is vastly different from 4.0 PT. 4.0 PT and 5.0 PT are virtually the same.

 

And I don't know what nerfing mercs has to do with me.

What would I want? Some range back. Even at 15m for a lot of abilities would be fine.

Our charge attack back to level 2.

Better defenses in some way. Passive mitigation, some of the defenses the Merc got. IDC. Something!

3 get rid of Translocate for something useful on shield tech.

Removing 30m range was basically a buff for people like this in PVE. PTs aren't, and weren't supposed to be considered a rdps, but having so many range attacks (even though they may not have been part of the actual rotation or shouldn't be used any more than in corner cases) made a lot of folks treat them as rdps when they shouldn't.

 

And how does moving jet charge from 2 to 59 change HM/NIM PVE at all?

 

Feel free to toss insults when you disagree with someone, I'm sure that makes you lots of friends

I'm not worried aboit making friends with someone on a forum. And I was merely fighting fire with fire.

And PT if you ever read it was suppoed to be a RANGED TANK. That was how it was billed from the beginning. I really don't see the range anymore.

And yes moving the charge attack from lvl 2 to 59 was a nerf cause now newer players have to re adapt at near the end to suddenly having a charge. Where as JUGG/Guard have it ftom the get go and Sin/Shad have stealth very early on.

Coupled with the fact both classes have far better damage mitigagation(hell mercs, snipers and Marauder have better damage mitigation. Hell sorcs have better damage mitigation ) make the PT/VG a straight downgrade as a tank to eithet of the other two tanking.

But back off that tangent, PT/VG were ranged tanks. Not melee, but longer ranged. Now you take away that range, not ranged tanks anymore are they? That's a nerf since a lot of their survivability was built around that range. And nothing was given to compensate loss of range. That my friend(and I use that term loosely) is a NERF. Anything else you'd like to throw at me?

Removing 30m range was basically a buff for people like this in PVE. PTs aren't, and weren't supposed to be considered a rdps, but having so many range attacks (even though they may not have been part of the actual rotation or shouldn't be used any more than in corner cases) made a lot of folks treat them as rdps when they shouldn't.

 

And how does moving jet charge from 2 to 59 change HM/NIM PVE at all?

 

Feel free to toss insults when you disagree with someone, I'm sure that makes you lots of friends

Why you always got to be so negative? you the same person who endlessly campaign for Merc to be nerf, and instead they Nerf dps and left the survivability.. after that I didn't heard from you anymore except an apology to the Merc community. I personally don't like Maras your favorite class, but you don't see me campaigning for them to be nerf. If you don't like a particular class then don't play it. This thread is in Support of PT/VG. We don't need you to spread your negativity.

And who said PT where not indented to be a Mid - Ranged class? post names! show statements..

Who said it! The ones that came after the Original creators said it? Phrr

Btw: thanks for campaigning for Mercs to be nerf, now in End-game operations we can barely keep up with Maras, Juggs, Snipers, but by all means continue to campaign. They might give us the tone down we need so we can be in line-up with PT/Vgs

I'm not worried aboit making friends with someone on a forum. And I was merely fighting fire with fire.

 

And PT if you ever read it was suppoed to be a RANGED TANK. That was how it was billed from the beginning. I really don't see the range anymore.

 

And yes moving the charge attack from lvl 2 to 59 was a nerf cause now newer players have to re adapt at near the end to suddenly having a charge. Where as JUGG/Guard have it ftom the get go and Sin/Shad have stealth very early on.

 

Coupled with the fact both classes have far better damage mitigagation(hell mercs, snipers and Marauder have better damage mitigation. Hell sorcs have better damage mitigation ) make the PT/VG a straight downgrade as a tank to eithet of the other two tanking.

 

But back off that tangent, PT/VG were ranged tanks. Not melee, but longer ranged. Now you take away that range, not ranged tanks anymore are they? That's a nerf since a lot of their survivability was built around that range. And nothing was given to compensate loss of range. That my friend(and I use that term loosely) is a NERF. Anything else you'd like to throw at me?

Ranged tank... ok.

Why you always got to be so negative? you the same person who endlessly campaign for Merc to be nerf, and instead they Nerf dps and left the survivability.. after that I didn't heard from you anymore except an apology to the Merc community. I personally don't like Maras your favorite class, but you don't see me campaigning for them to be nerf. If you don't like a particular class then don't play it. This thread is in Support of PT/VG. We don't need you to spread your negativity.

 

And who said PT where not indented to be a Mid - Ranged class? post names! show statements..

 

Who said it! The ones that came after the Original creators said it? Phrr

 

Btw: thanks for campaigning for Mercs to be nerf, now in End-game operations we can barely keep up with Maras, Juggs, Snipers, but by all means continue to campaign. They might give us the tone down we need so we can be in line-up with PT/Vgs

Arsenal Merc is my main... I don't think I ever campaigned for Mercs to be nerfed, in fact I usually am campaigning against them being nerfed. Sorry mate, I think you have me confused with someone else.

Ranged tank... ok.

 

 

 

Arsenal Merc is my main... I don't think I ever campaigned for Mercs to be nerfed, in fact I usually am campaigning against them being nerfed. Sorry mate, I think you have me confused with someone else.

Yes it is. That's what the devs themselves listed PT/VG. They in the beginning were never meant to be up at melee range. Infact that's gow I learned to tank as a VG. Right outside the 10m mark outside if melee range and then dip ans fade to keep threat up and stuff focused on me or kite a melee target in a raid

That was one of the main features of the PT and why it had less mitigation than other classes. Well devs nerfed the range and put everything at melee range and didn't boost to compensate the range loss. So yes A NERF. But from the looks of it you play a Merc so you got everything the PT needed and could give two ***** less.

And by the by, I flipped to an IO Merc, and yes the Merc needs it's defenses HEAVILY nerfed. RS TR and KO should be completely removed. Have plenty of other **** moves along with self heals. Those 3 abilities should be on the PT, plain and simple.

And PT if you ever read it was suppoed to be a RANGED TANK. That was how it was billed from the beginning. I really don't see the range anymore.

The issue here is that most bosses tend to move towards you if you are out of Melee range. Having a full range tank here would lead to the PT/VG kiting the boss around while doing full damage and taking zero damage. Not very balanced, eh?

Nowadays, you have some abilites with 30m range and if you want to you can skill some additional range-buffs. You can for example have 20m shoulder cannons and 30m on everything for the duration of battle focus/explosive fuel.

The issue here is that most bosses tend to move towards you if you are out of Melee range. Having a full range tank here would lead to the PT/VG kiting the boss around while doing full damage and taking zero damage. Not very balanced, eh?

Nowadays, you have some abilites with 30m range and if you want to you can skill some additional range-buffs. You can for example have 20m shoulder cannons and 30m on everything for the duration of battle focus/explosive fuel.

Which yes is an issue but it kept you alive. PT simply does not have the defenses of a Sin or Jugg to stand there and take a massive beating without a healer present.

Hence why either give back the range or beef up the defense. Either way I could care less. But right now, a Merc is a better tank and has better dps to boot. All a Merc needs is a taunt a d it woud be be the perfect tank.