Original thread

 

Hey folks,

 

Below you will find the current list of Class changes which are coming with Game Update 4.5. These changes will not be going on PTS so we wanted to give you a heads up on what was coming. Please feel free to read over the changes and provide your feedback in this thread, I will pass it on to the Combat team.

 

Bounty Hunter

• Missile Blast now has a base range of 10 meters (down from 30 meters).
  
• Rail Shot now has a base range of 10 meters (down from 30 meters).
  

Designer Note: Powertech ranged potential is currently too strong for a class that is intended to be played as a close-quarters combatant. Powertechs are melee onslaught specialists and should be encouraged to engage their targets in close proximity. By reducing the range of Missile Blast and Rail Shot, we place the Powertech’s range potential closer to its design as a close-quarters combatant and further define their unique style in various combat scenarios. Mercenaries maintain their 30 meter range through our reintroduction of “Propulsion Systems.”

 

Powertech

• Suppressive Tools now reduces the movement speed of targets affected by Magnetic Blast, Flame Burst, and Flame Sweep for 3 seconds (down from 6 seconds).
  

Designer Note: The Powertech’s suppressive potential is currently a little too impressive with the Suppressive Tools Utility. In its current iteration, players fleeing from Powertechs are far too susceptible to suffering a perpetual state of reduced movement under the effects of Suppressive Tools. To better the player experience and balance Powertech target control potential, we have reduced the duration of movement speed reduction provided by Suppressive Tools.

 

• Shield Cannon now heals you for 3% (down from 5%) of your total health when damaging a target with Shoulder Cannon.
  

Designer Note: Powertech survivability currently surpasses the survivability of similar classes. We are reducing the effectiveness of Shield Cannon to bring the class more in line with the other tank classes.

 

Trooper

• Explosive Round now has a base range of 10 meters (down from 30 meters).
  
• High Impact Bolt now has a base range of 10 meters (down from 30 meters).
  

Designer Note: Vanguard ranged potential is currently too strong for a class that is intended to be played as a close-quarters combatant. Vanguards are melee assault specialists and should be encouraged to engage their targets in close proximity. By reducing the range of Explosive Round and High Impact Bolt, we place the Vanguard’s range potential closer to its design as a close-quarters combatant and further define their unique style in various combat scenarios. Commandos maintain their 30 meter range through our reintroduction of “Mass Accelerator.”

 

Vanguard

• Entangling Tools now reduces the movement speed of targets affected by Tactical Surge, Ion Pulse, and Explosive Surge for 3 seconds (down from 6 seconds).
  

Designer Note: The Vanguard’s suppressive potential is currently a little too impressive with the Entangling Tools Utility. In its current iteration, players fleeing from Vanguards are far too susceptible to suffering a perpetual state of reduced movement under the effects of Entangling Tools. To better the player experience and balance Vanguard target control potential, we have reduced the duration of movement speed reduction provided by Entangling Tools.

 

• Guard Cannon now heals you for 3% (down from 5%) of your total health when damaging a target with Shoulder Cannon.
  

Designer Note: Vanguard survivability currently surpasses the survivability of similar classes. We are reducing the effectiveness of Guard Cannon to bring the class more in line with the other tank classes.

Edited May 24, 2016 by ZioGio

hate the reduced range of explosive round, takes a major tool out of my arsenal. If a class if OP, you should boost the other classes to match not nerf existing ones.

The range nerf was for the best, seeing as where vanguards/powertech are an up close and personal and close range classes.

hate the reduced range of explosive round, takes a major tool out of my arsenal. If a class if OP, you should boost the other classes to match not nerf existing ones.

 

That's some rubbish thinking.

 

The problem was PT having too much range as a melee and this will be the second time their range has been reduced.

 

How does that get fixed by changing every other class.

 

Even if it was X does more damage than the rest the solution is still to make the change to X not every other class.

hate the reduced range of explosive round, takes a major tool out of my arsenal. If a class if OP, you should boost the other classes to match not nerf existing ones.

 

Yes, let's make ravage 30m, both juggs and maras would be happy.

Yes, let's make ravage 30m, both juggs and maras would be happy.

 

Give muh 30m crushing blow

Bioware you are WRONG!

 

sic. - "ranged potential is currently too strong for a class that is intended to be played as a close-quarters combatant. Powertechs/Vanguards are melee onslaught specialists and should be encouraged to engage their targets in close proximity. By reducing the range of Missile Blast/Explosive Round and Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt, we place the Powertech’s/Vanguard's range potential closer to its design as a close-quarters combatant and further define their unique style in various combat scenarios. Mercenaries maintain their 30 meter range through our reintroduction of “Propulsion Systems.”

 

This is caving to PvP whiners, and it always always ruins a game. This is the third MMO that I have played extensively.

City of Heroes 5 years, World of Warcraft 5 years, Now SWTOR for 3 and a half years (I think on this game's time spent). I have seen these kinds of moves made before in all of these games and it always ruins a class in a game.

 

 

When you developed this game Bioware, you advertised and boasted about having the first ranged tank classes, and that was a major draw for me to come play, and the second character I ever made, and first imperial side character was a powertech tank. I have since also created a Vanguard tank. I have played these tanks for the duration of my play experience in this game. The 30M ranged abilities in which you nerfed were necessary in order to protect group members from enemies that had lost agro from the tank and were rushing other players. Being able to shoot a rail shot as a possible coup de grâce was needed for these RANGED tanking classes to be effective while their taunts cooled down and also did something more important. They made the class fun!

 

I have extensively tested the change on these two classes and now find that you have effectively removed these two abilities from these classes and killed the fun these classes provided. At 10m there is no use for these powers and I find that I simply don't use them now at that range, I am much better off using Firestorm, and Ionstorm to damage enemies as these abilities are much more effective and are often triggered by passive class abilities to be used free of cost. Now I struggle to handle enemies that are spread out over areas because I can't shoot a grenade or missile at them to get their attention or damage them, or finish others off at critical moments with a High Impact Bolt or Rail shot. Tell me this bioware: How does a shot that is propelled by magnets to travel at hypersonic speeds (Railshot) suddenly stop or not reach out beyond 10m? This is stupid!

These classes were designed to be ranged tanks. 10M is melee range. We already have melee tanks that serve their niche well. Ranged tanks in order to be RANGED tanks need to be able to reach out at range and I don't mean with just the basic attack of rapid shots, or hammer shot. What will you nerf next to fall in line with this erroneous line of logic, nerf Death From Above or Mortar Volley to 10M? Shooting explosives at a target that is in your face at 10M is suicidal and stupid from any realistic point of view.

 

For me and my friends that play this is a game killer. I have discussed this with them and they unanimously say that this change completely "sucks!"

We are even considering quitting the game over it. We'd rather not have to.

 

You made a mistake Bioware, please change the range back to 30 M on these abilities If the PvPers don't like it, then this is what you tell them, "This game's core is PvE. It is a MMO RPG. PvP was added to the game to give players a fun alternative to the RPG core of the game, but it should not dictate changes to that core PvE experience." The PvPers can just rethink their tactics.

Bioware you are WRONG!

 

sic. - "ranged potential is currently too strong for a class that is intended to be played as a close-quarters combatant. Powertechs/Vanguards are melee onslaught specialists and should be encouraged to engage their targets in close proximity. By reducing the range of Missile Blast/Explosive Round and Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt, we place the Powertech’s/Vanguard's range potential closer to its design as a close-quarters combatant and further define their unique style in various combat scenarios. Mercenaries maintain their 30 meter range through our reintroduction of “Propulsion Systems.”

 

This is caving to PvP whiners, and it always always ruins a game. This is the third MMO that I have played extensively.

City of Heroes 5 years, World of Warcraft 5 years, Now SWTOR for 3 and a half years (I think on this game's time spent). I have seen these kinds of moves made before in all of these games and it always ruins a class in a game.

 

 

When you developed this game Bioware, you advertised and boasted about having the first ranged tank classes, and that was a major draw for me to come play, and the second character I ever made, and first imperial side character was a powertech tank. I have since also created a Vanguard tank. I have played these tanks for the duration of my play experience in this game. The 30M ranged abilities in which you nerfed were necessary in order to protect group members from enemies that had lost agro from the tank and were rushing other players. Being able to shoot a rail shot as a possible coup de grâce was needed for these RANGED tanking classes to be effective while their taunts cooled down and also did something more important. They made the class fun!

 

I have extensively tested the change on these two classes and now find that you have effectively removed these two abilities from these classes and killed the fun these classes provided. At 10m there is no use for these powers and I find that I simply don't use them now at that range, I am much better off using Firestorm, and Ionstorm to damage enemies as these abilities are much more effective and are often triggered by passive class abilities to be used free of cost. Now I struggle to handle enemies that are spread out over areas because I can't shoot a grenade or missile at them to get their attention or damage them, or finish others off at critical moments with a High Impact Bolt or Rail shot. Tell me this bioware: How does a shot that is propelled by magnets to travel at hypersonic speeds (Railshot) suddenly stop or not reach out beyond 10m? This is stupid!

These classes were designed to be ranged tanks. 10M is melee range. We already have melee tanks that serve their niche well. Ranged tanks in order to be RANGED tanks need to be able to reach out at range and I don't mean with just the basic attack of rapid shots, or hammer shot. What will you nerf next to fall in line with this erroneous line of logic, nerf Death From Above or Mortar Volley to 10M? Shooting explosives at a target that is in your face at 10M is suicidal and stupid from any realistic point of view.

 

For me and my friends that play this is a game killer. I have discussed this with them and they unanimously say that this change completely "sucks!"

We are even considering quitting the game over it. We'd rather not have to.

 

You made a mistake Bioware, please change the range back to 30 M on these abilities If the PvPers don't like it, then this is what you tell them, "This game's core is PvE. It is a MMO RPG. PvP was added to the game to give players a fun alternative to the RPG core of the game, but it should not dictate changes to that core PvE experience." The PvPers can just rethink their tactics.

 

TL;DR: has trouble holding aggro.

 

I won't say it, but someone else will...

 

By the way, PTs were NEVER ranged tanks. They still bring a vunch of utility no other tank has. I'm sure losing two abilities over 30m range destroyed your abilities, even though you were one of the best before the (mainly PvE) nerf.

TL;DR: has trouble holding aggro.

 

I won't say it, but someone else will...

 

By the way, PTs were NEVER ranged tanks. They still bring a vunch of utility no other tank has. I'm sure losing two abilities over 30m range destroyed your abilities, even though you were one of the best before the (mainly PvE) nerf.

 

I agree that they never were ranged tanks but in all fairness Bioware does advertise them as "Ranged Tank, Ranged Damage, Close-Quarters Damage" as seen here on the main website.

So they actually advertise the ranged aspect for both Shield and AP? Interesting. I forgot all about that description.

 

I suspect the guys who ran the show previous to the unload nerf had an idea of what the class should be...and the current group had an entirely different one. Rapid Shots, DFA and ED are really the only abilities left in the tanks arsenal at range, but it's very rare that they are ever really employed in PVE Op's. I'm guessing the whole "range-closer for everyone!" debacle forced their hand on this. It's the classic example of one poorly thought-out decision forcing yet another bad decision. And, us tanks end up with Translocate...which is rarely even mildly useful. There is a huge, oppressive PVP fingerprint all over this class now...mainly because a ranged tank in PVP was always going to be unfair. The range-closing changes only made it worse. Still, PVE viability is not the issue here. Identity is.

 

Regardless, for those who argued against the notion that any "legislative intent" existed for PT's (and even AP's) to call themselves a ranged class...the original Dev's have spoken. Nerfing Railshot to 10m was the straw that broke the ranged tank's back. It is now a melee onslaught tank, regardless of the original intentions. PVP and PVE do not mix well in this format...and robbing Peter to give to Paul is never going to be a viable solution.

 

I don't know how you fix it now. There have been too many changes, dependent on other class changes, to undo what has been done. Shoot, maybe a "ranged tank" is an impossible MMO dream. All I know is that my fav toon is now something quite different than what he was when I first started playing him. Even if you don't agree with anything I've said before this, maybe you can appreciate how much of a bummer that is.

 

Meanwhile, the Dev whack-a-mole mini-game goes on. Who will be next?

Edited June 17, 2016 by UberSamoyed

i find it pretty sad that they even Nerf our healing from our cannon its our only heal skill

 

as i compare to jugg that class can heal more and is almost unstoppable

 

seems BW don't like both BH/trooper much

 

i realy hope BW rework both classes

 

with more healing and there schield from damage reduction to damage absorb

MY POOR CYBORG BH. all those high end upgraded cybernetics, and still as weak as a normal scruffy looking nerf herder.

"Powertechs are melee onslaught specialists and should be encouraged to engage their targets in close proximity. By reducing the range of Missile Blast and Rail Shot, we place the Powertech’s range potential closer to its design as a close-quarters combatant and further define their unique style in various combat scenarios."

 

If that is the case how come Explosive Dart and Death From Above were not reduced to 10m as well? Your reasoning and your actions do not match.

 

So I guess Scoundrels and Operatives, close range classes, can both look forward to having Thermal/Fragmentation Grenade reduced to 10m then? That would be pretty stupid but we seem to be well into stupid territory here.

 

How does a Smuggler throw a grenade three times further than a missile can reach? How does a dart travel three times further than a rail shot? These ranges have been fine for years, why change them now? The Devs have lost the plot on this one.

Edited August 24, 2016 by DingoChutney