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Gear Acquisition Feedback - Spoils of War

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Gear Acquisition Feedback - Spoils of War
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Lhancelot's Avatar

06.02.2019 , 10:18 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Great post. It even made me laugh to see one post that said something like:

"If you're a NiM raider, your hard work and skill means you deserve gear items that make you OP."

and then followed by:

"If you're rich, you also deserve the best items in game."

So... I guess skill doesn't matter to belong to the "exclusive club" as long as you're rich or well-connected, lol.
It's a tenuous debate because calling it like it is, elitists feeling entitled isn't a popular viewpoint here.

Plus the easy/lazy way to argue their perspective is to flip it and say "casuals" are undeservedly feeling entitled to the BiS gears.

Thing is it's been explained with logic why the BiS gearing system SWTOR is now running with isn't very sensible.

Not only does it only serve to frustrate players with many alts, it DOES add some disadvantage when many PVPers are not able to outfit all their toons into BiS gears for PVP versus those who are in their BiS gears.

Making a gear grind part of gearing for PVP is dumb. Want a grind for PVE, fine... but then separate the two activities (PVP and PVE) so they do not share the same gearing procedure.

Anyone that honestly believes they "deserve" everything just because they are still highly active raiding, they are idiots because the gears are literally NOT NEEDED to progress in their PVE raids.

BiS for raiding while story moders and/or PVPers have a more complicated route to gear up is total BS.
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

kodrac's Avatar

06.02.2019 , 05:17 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post

at 1:02:19 this was discussed and they are giving us a new legacy storage for our crafting mats which should help free up some of the other legacy tabs.
Best part of 6.0 right there.
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
Iíd find it hard to believe this sort of thing goes on in the preferential treatment forum.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
or Kodrac, for saying everything I want to say, but he takes one for team and gets a warning.

Kaze-Yama's Avatar

06.04.2019 , 11:07 AM | #63
Can we get more info about how the vendors will work? What are the plans for how much these are going to cost in terms of the currency you earn and how is the limited time/rotating vendor going to work exactly? You say that RNG protection is built in but how is it actually going to function if it is cost prohibitive? Like are you able to earn enough currency doing daily quests to buy 10 pieces of gear per day or only 1? Will the vendor that sells fixed items also be tied to your item level or is it just selling set bonus and tacticals with no stats? How long will the vendor be around for and how often will the item offerings rotate? If currency is hard to come by or buying it is expensive what incentive is there for players to buy random gear when they should just save everything for the guaranteed vendor whenever it appears. If the vendor has an item I really want will I be able to earn enough currency in a day or a week or however long to get what I want before they leave?

I imagine most of this is gonna be determined through testing and PTS but would like to know how you envision this new currency economy actually functioning.

KendraP's Avatar

06.04.2019 , 11:37 AM | #64
From what I understand, the vendor is going to be in a random location with a random selection of items?



I too would like more details.

From the "spoils of war" article:
A new currency, which you can receive from Deconstruction, can also be acquired in a number of places around the game (such as drops, Mission rewards, and more). This currency is used on two new vendors to help serve as a mechanism to both protect you from any streaks of bad luck, and to work on getting the items you want.

The first vendor will allow you to spend currency to purchase a random version of a specific item slot. If you are trying to get a chest piece, you can spend your currency to purchase as many chest pieces as you can afford at that time, allowing to really hone-in on the item you are trying to get.

The second vendor is a regularly reappearing vendor which sells very specific items. This vendorís selection is not based on your Discipline or power level. Instead, they will have a rotating inventory each time they appear in-game. This will allow you to purchase exactly what you want, when itís in stock, as long as you manage to find them before they leave to resupply!

JessieStar's Avatar

06.04.2019 , 12:35 PM | #65
Sr if I missed it, but what will happen to boss after kill loot? No more rolling for tokens, or...? Many people got very ragy after u tried removing it in the past (just reminding ))

KendraP's Avatar

06.05.2019 , 06:35 PM | #66
So, I finally made it home and have been holding off on a large, lengthy post until I had a keyboard for cutting and pasting purposes, and for simplier editing in general. my phone gets annoying.

I'm not quite sure if this is where this should go, but there are about 15 different sources of information in dev posts, and I can't particularly find one good place to go. In a way I enjoy having this problem, as it's far better than the past method of saying "we're listening... *crickets*" (see I can still give compliments!)

anyway, on to the bulk of the information I have been able to find. First and most obviously: the spoils of war article, here

Set Bonuses: again, and most obviously, you are adding in an absolute plethora of stuff that must be stored (yes, crafting legacy bank when i'm not really a crafter) and multiple sets that will likely be "needed" per toon (yes, potential loadout coming probably after 6.0, which means this will be an issue).

I understand what you are getting at; again, I really do like the "play your way" concept, and set bonuses that might be desirable for certain things would, on it's face, be a good thing.

also there's a comment on "mixing and matching multiple sets together". is this like, 3 - 2 piece set bonuses? or like the 2 piece set bonus from a lightning set, the 4 piece from a healer set, and the 6 piece from a general sorc set? or maybe some convolution of the above?

But riddle me this: unless the AC specific bonus is just bad, why would you need a general sorcerer set bonus. i get general general sets for crafting or something, but this just seems extraneous and unnecessarily complicated for very little gain.

tactical items: As i have come to understand it, these are essentially an extra item slot for something that will let you further "customize" your character, as per the example given. This actually seems rather self explanatory, if a balancing nightmare and rather gimmicky.

with the clarification on the weapons thing out of the way, I have read multiple places that these won't offer enough of a difference to even be considered in a balance situation. So why have it? It either does make a difference, and therefore should be considered for that extra 0.002 dps it does, or its irrelevant and shouldn't exist in the first place. To me it seems this was added for no reason other than to be a credit sink as you re-roll for that extra 0.002 possible dps you might get if they are all "right". Again, this sounds very annoying, and more annoying than fun.

items in pvp max level bolster is a good step, I think. Obviously there will be some bolster fun like has always existed, but item rating on gear not mattering is a good thing.

acquiring gear: I think it's this "always progressing" thing I'm getting hung up on. I'm a person who likes a clear goal. My biggest complaint about 258 gear, and the one you seem to be addressing, is that it is locked behind Ossus. This not only throws that out, but takes it to a whole new conceptual level: you no longer have a clear BIS/best gear/ultimate gear goal. For me, this just seems like an incredible headache. All you needed to do to keep me at least satisfied with "play your way" was to essentially not lock gear behind particular content. The vendors on fleet for the up to 258 gear are actually pretty much how I like it.

supplementary systems: Overall, I see nothing I absolutely can't stand the thought of here. command crates giving actually useful stuff will be a substantial improvement.

that's a lot of gear / no such thing as luck: The biggest thing I have here is the "regularly reappearing vendor which sells very specific items." So what he has is random, where he is located is random, and he's not even always around? This sounds super annoying. And the vendor that is guaranteed to give you a particular piece, doesn't even necessarily give you the piece you need? What part of RNG isn't fun is so complicated? Both of these sound downright annoying. I want a way, however expensive or time consuming, to work toward exactly what I want and be able to get it exactly when I want, provided I have the currency.

OK, lots of stuff there, next is the livestream recap

Communication and feedback so far, you have been overwhelmingly better at this. My only disappointment is the lack of response in the requested threads on set bonus and tactical ideas. I am not a vague shoot in the dark type person. If you want ideas, I need to know exactly the sort of thing you're looking for. some of the people have truly reached for the stars, and most of the ideas i've read are rather blatantly overpowered.

items stupid question: on the inquisitor example: "killing an enemy before whirlwind ends resets the cooldown of whirlwind" - but whirlwind breaks on damage taken, so how, exactly do you kill someone before whirlwind ends? or is this like any enemy (not necessarily the whirlwinded enemy)?

on the rest, I think I'm just going to need more details or see it in action.

i.e. what is this "rng protection"

and finally, from the reddit summary, here:

The very first question, regarding tank gear: I would like to ask a related and perhaps clearer question.
The functionality of defense is not what I (nor what I believe that poster) was asking about. Take 258 gear as an example. The only mods you can get at "BIS" level (without relying on the incredibly pathetic drops in command crates, if they exist at 258) are the high defense ones, with the high defense enhancements. The players I have seen with this gear are running nearly 4k def rating in "BIS" gear. This is thoroughly unnecessary, and most tanks run lethal b, warding b, or even lethal mods to drop the def rating. I also prefer the high endurance, low def enhancements, as you still get near 2k def rating, while having more health for spike eating purposes, and aren't sacrificing shield or absorb.

But tanks essentially have to grind 2 sets or pay a crafter to make them what they actually "need" for mods and enhancements.

Is it possible for you guys to just accept that the super high def rating is rather pointless, and throw warding b mods in as the standard BIS pieces, or to reshuffle the proportion of def rating on the BIS mods to be like using the b mods is now?

Your answer raises another interesting point, however, on the "larger variety of stats on mods". But this is too vague for me to really work with. I can get different stats on the mods now... if i farm for them, more than is needed by healers or dps. All I want is to gear a tank as easily as I gear a healer or dps. Why should I have to work harder to perform the role that's so rare that you basically cut it out of the levelling and much of the story mode process?

Also in question 1, under the relic front: there are basically 2 relics everyone uses: serendipitous assault and focused retribution, because the bonuses on them help dps and healing more than anything else, and most people use them on tanks too. I really fail to believe you all don't already know that this is what people do. Do you really play the game that little? People will gear for what helps them most, and frankly, there is little point in running other relics. If you want a specific example, why'd I run a def rating buffing relic on my tank, when def rating on gear is already into diminishing returns?

Question on the tactical item and RNG protection: You never did really answer this guys question on going for specific items and rng protection. You say in your inventory or equipped. i rarely carry around gear shells i don't use in my inventory. They either go in the character's cargo hold or the legacy hold. Would this negate my rng protection? And I once again request you to consider a way, however slow, to be guaranteed to get what you want, when you want, with no gimmicks.

Question on amplifiers: again, you say "don't make a huge difference to your character but more options for min/maxing". It's either needed for min/maxing, and thus relevant, if small, and should be considered in balance, or it's too small to be useful and stupid to have in the first place. Pick one and stick with it. This wishy washy stuff is irritating.

Question on legacy gearing: I really hope you consider how many different sets we are going to have floating around sooner rather than later. I have almost maxed out my legacy hold as it is, and I have only half a tab of crafting mats. with maxed out inventory for my characters.

Question on time frame and testing: way to totally duck answering this. This is in fact, my biggest hangup with the new system. We have 3 months.

Question on philosophy: I agree with your philosophy, but gearing is a process I like to get over with so I can move on to simply playing the game. and how are you going to do all this, test it, change it based on feedback, and beat out all the bugs in 3 months?

Question on grade 11 mats: to be more to the point than the person asking the question: since we will continue getting these items until the day 6.0 drops, I am assuming the best thing to do is simply start selling off the stock now, and be stuck with as few as possible, thus also having an influx of credits at the start of the expansion, which also would seem to undermine your free market economy theory.

Question on stat-point inflation: I am glad to see you finally admit that this was a thing. I mean, we all told you about it before you even put the gear in the game, but at least you seem to see it was a thing. I don't see why you didn't before putting it in the game, but I guess that's just me.

sorry for the essay, and despite my best efforts, still sad formatting.

dipstik's Avatar

06.06.2019 , 12:32 PM | #67
mm ops and and rated pvp should get the drops that filter down to crafters for max level gear. crafters have more money than other player bases, and mm op players spend the most on repair bills... rated pvp should not have bolster.

crafters who want to be able to do dailies to get max level gear should also need to spend money on a single mat that comes from another part of the community... just as raiders rely on crafters to gear up alts much of the time... and will need c raters more than ever to avoid rerolling forever...

i like the idea of a slot in each item for a set bonus, and allowing the set bonus items to stack in your bank, and having a bank space dedicated to set bonus/tacticals. amps would be nice to have as a separate item too, but that doesnt look like its going to happen.

i dont think there is enough time to make changes from feedback before 6.0 launch... this should have been a year long process with at least 3 iterations of gearing systems for people to complain about...

Lhancelot's Avatar

06.06.2019 , 01:26 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
So, I finally made it home and have been holding off on a large, lengthy post until I had a keyboard for cutting and pasting purposes, and for simplier editing in general.
**** got real up in here now! I had to comment before reading, sorry. *goes back to reading KendraP's long post written by KB*
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Stariessaber's Avatar

06.06.2019 , 11:14 PM | #69
Not sure if this has already been asked, but with the inclusion of Amplifiers and tactical items what type of effect will this also have on content like GSF and space missions etc?

FlameYOL's Avatar

06.07.2019 , 07:00 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Stariessaber View Post
Not sure if this has already been asked, but with the inclusion of Amplifiers and tactical items what type of effect will this also have on content like GSF and space missions etc?
None, the "gearing" system for those works differently. Your space mission ship has its own slots for equipment, and GSF also has a separate progression system.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything