I am so tempted to get Gut, but that would prevent me from the top shield spec skill.

Do it. The spec I'm going with is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMGrdorogZMsr0o.1. Having Gut does more damage and enables High Impact Bolt because of the DOT. That means more threat generation. WINNING!

Do it. The spec I'm going with is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMGrdorogZMsr0o.1. Having Gut does more damage and enables High Impact Bolt because of the DOT. That means more threat generation. WINNING!

Umm... no.

Ion Overload makes stock strike proc your ion cell which then has a dot that allows for High Impact Bolt, and Energy Blast doesn't take 15 seconds to complete it's damage plus it gives you an extra ammo cell.

Gut < Energy Blast.

Energy Blast has a 15 sec cooldown. The more DOT's on a target the more opportunity to have High Impact Bolt available for use. The ammo cell...yeah Energy Blast does have that advantage but Gut does twice the damage.

HIB has a 15 second cooldown also, so you only need one dot per 15 seconds to be able to use it. Stockstrike has a 9 second cooldown, so it'll always be available sooner than HIB and the Ion Cell dot lasts 9 total seconds with talents.

Let's run some numbers with no mitigation.

Gut+HIB does 4500 damage in 15 seconds and costs 4 ammo.

1500+3000=4500

Stockstrike+Ion Cell+HIB+ Energy blast does 6700 damage in 9 seconds and costs 3 ammo.

2200+800+3000+700=6700

I rounded numbers a little bit and ignored resists because I want some quick and dirty numbers, but I think you get the point. Gut quickly falls behind damage and ammo cost wise, and falling behind ammo cost wise only makes the damage gap wider in favor of Energy Blast.

Edit: Yeah, I could add SS+Ion cell to the Gut totals, but then it would cost 6 Ammo and only win by 800 damage and the gut dot wouldn't be necessary to proc HIB... The ammo is where Energy Blast really works out. Even then, given that you have to wait 15 seconds to get all the damage out of the gut rotation means that it has a lower overall DPS and about half of the efficiency.

Edit 2: I know gut doesn't have a cooldown, but if you don't let the dot tick out then you are wasting half of the damage.

Energy Blast has a 15 sec cooldown. The more DOT's on a target the more opportunity to have High Impact Bolt available for use. The ammo cell...yeah Energy Blast does have that advantage but Gut does twice the damage and no cooldown.

I'm not sure EB casts a DOT. The way the specs on it read, it just deals added energy damage (it appears to all targets "near" the primary) and has a chance of a stun. The added damage seems like a direct added hit, but the other effects I think are just stun / disable or something, not a DOT. The stun or disable would probably still enable HIB though, for however long it lasts, and assuming it doesn't break.

This is just based on the somewhat vague description given in the torhead tooltips for it.

to get back to topic...

I'm still considering an assault vanguard although there's a few things I am worried about:

Surviability in PvP strikes me as a little low, compared to shield spec or tactics and there's probably an ammo problem.

I know there are some talents in the tree that make it a little better but it still seems like a waste of points :/

I'm not sure EB casts a DOT. The way the specs on it read, it just deals added energy damage (it appears to all targets "near" the primary) and has a chance of a stun. The added damage seems like a direct added hit, but the other effects I think are just stun / disable or something, not a DOT. The stun or disable would probably still enable HIB though, for however long it lasts, and assuming it doesn't break.

 

This is just based on the somewhat vague description given in the torhead tooltips for it.

I was talking about the pro's of getting GUT over EB. EB does not have a DOT, you are correct.

Do it. The spec I'm going with is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMGrdorogZMsr0o.1. Having Gut does more damage and enables High Impact Bolt because of the DOT. That means more threat generation. WINNING!

If you are shield spec then the dot from stock strike allows for HIB. Gut does not crit for as much as energy blast for shield spec. Yeah it does more over 15 seconds but a 0 ammo cost skill that gives you extra ammo is great. Energy blast > gut. More ammo = more threat.

If you are shield spec then the dot from stock strike allows for HIB. Gut does not crit for as much as energy blast for shield spec. Yeah it does more over 15 seconds but a 0 ammo cost skill that gives you extra ammo is great. Energy blast > gut. More ammo = more threat.

If you're talking about the Ion Cell proc, it's only a 50% chance, and it only lasts for 6 seconds. The DOT from Gut can have 100% uptime since it casts every time, and the runtime is the same as the CD.

If you're talking about the Ion Cell proc, it's only a 50% chance, and it only lasts for 6 seconds. The DOT from Gut can have 100% uptime since it casts every time, and the runtime is the same as the CD.

It is 100% specced 2/2 and lasts 9 seconds specced...and since the stock stike CD is 9 seconds and can reset in 4.5 seconds the dot is always on.

I was runing Assault Vanguard in Beta, not till 50 but pretty high.

I will be doing this tree:

http://torguild.net/calculator/trooper/vanguard/?p=032003000000000000000200000000000000000302302021223032231

HIB does have 15s cooldown but some procs reset it.

It happened pretty often in beta (last build) so I expect its goign to work the same now.

Assualt Spec Vanguard is a balanced spec, I would say.

Nice DPS, some cc, short and long range abilities, mobility.

I liked it but I am not sure If I am going to take it as my PvP spec, because it lacks self healing abilities. There is one on long cooldown but its not enough (unless there are more on higher levels, I didnt play past 27 lvl). In 1 vs 1 fights I was usually on top, but if odds were against me, I required healers help.

Could someone describe a typical day for an Assault DPS Vanguard in the warzones? How is the fighting? Is it more ranged or more melee? Are you constantly moving?

Assault Vanguards are definitely more melee than ranged. Your ammo regen is smoothed out being able to proc free High Impact Shots that generate 1 cell. This doesn't mean that you should play a Vanguard like a Jedi Guardian and charge into every single melee pile. I normally only close to melee range when I know I can win the fight (ie 1v1/I have more teammates around), when I need to kill someone asap (ie ball carrier in Huttball, Gunslingers/Snipers in cover, Sith Inquisitor/Merc free casting), or when I need to interrupt people from capping objectives.

Even when you close to melee range, you can constantly adjust your positioning based on what abilities you have available. After using Rocket Punch, I immediately kite back out vs. any melee since that's my only ability that is at 4 yards. Unless I'm spamming Immolate to proc the slow or to burst, I'll constantly kite right at the edge of the 10 meter range. Vanguards don't have gap closers like Force Charge/Sprint or Hold the Line, but I think we more than make up for that by being extremely flexible with our positioning. Survivability isn't merely measured by how much damage you can tank. If you can assure that you will never be in a position where the other team can effectively switch to you, then you have all the survivability you need.

P.S. Find yourself a friend who is skilled with a Gun Slinger. The amount of peels you can set up for him while he just spams damage from cover is disgusting.

Assault Vanguards are definitely more melee than ranged. Your ammo regen is smoothed out being able to proc free High Impact Shots that generate 1 cell. This doesn't mean that you should play a Vanguard like a Jedi Guardian and charge into every single melee pile. I normally only close to melee range when I know I can win the fight (ie 1v1/I have more teammates around), when I need to kill someone asap (ie ball carrier in Huttball, Gunslingers/Snipers in cover, Sith Inquisitor/Merc free casting), or when I need to interrupt people from capping objectives.

 

Even when you close to melee range, you can constantly adjust your positioning based on what abilities you have available. After using Rocket Punch, I immediately kite back out vs. any melee since that's my only ability that is at 4 yards. Unless I'm spamming Immolate to proc the slow or to burst, I'll constantly kite right at the edge of the 10 meter range. Vanguards don't have gap closers like Force Charge/Sprint or Hold the Line, but I think we more than make up for that by being extremely flexible with our positioning. Survivability isn't merely measured by how much damage you can tank. If you can assure that you will never be in a position where the other team can effectively switch to you, then you have all the survivability you need.

 

P.S. Find yourself a friend who is skilled with a Gun Slinger. The amount of peels you can set up for him while he just spams damage from cover is disgusting

Thanks for the insight!

HIB has a 15 second cooldown also, so you only need one dot per 15 seconds to be able to use it. Stockstrike has a 9 second cooldown, so it'll always be available sooner than HIB and the Ion Cell dot lasts 9 total seconds with talents.

 

Let's run some numbers with no mitigation.

 

Gut+HIB does 4500 damage in 15 seconds and costs 4 ammo.

 

1500+3000=4500

 

Stockstrike+Ion Cell+HIB+ Energy blast does 6700 damage in 9 seconds and costs 3 ammo.

 

2200+800+3000+700=6700

 

I rounded numbers a little bit and ignored resists because I want some quick and dirty numbers, but I think you get the point. Gut quickly falls behind damage and ammo cost wise, and falling behind ammo cost wise only makes the damage gap wider in favor of Energy Blast.

 

Edit: Yeah, I could add SS+Ion cell to the Gut totals, but then it would cost 6 Ammo and only win by 800 damage and the gut dot wouldn't be necessary to proc HIB... The ammo is where Energy Blast really works out. Even then, given that you have to wait 15 seconds to get all the damage out of the gut rotation means that it has a lower overall DPS and about half of the efficiency.

 

Edit 2: I know gut doesn't have a cooldown, but if you don't let the dot tick out then you are wasting half of the damage.

PLEASE post your build!

Haven't played much yet.. but are Vanguard assaults builds more mobile then Commando assault builds?

Reason I was wondering is that my main priority is mobility but I like healing alittle bit more then tanking, but Harpoon pretty much makes it even.

Could someone describe a usual PvP Assault build for a Vanguard? Also the skill rotation at early levels (until ~ lvl 20) would be nice. I'm always kind of low on ammo in PvE battles and don't know a good rotation to keep my ammo up. (I'm currently lvl 11)

Thanks in advance!