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Time to end Biochem reusables

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Time to end Biochem reusables
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HanzBlix's Avatar

03.14.2012 , 04:26 PM | #331
Quote: Originally Posted by DeathDiciple View Post
I love them and I will love them for leveling but lets get real. The TOP END meds are blue not reusable anyway, and how exactly is 2hour last-through-death blue so much worse than reusable stim? how many do you need per raid, 2 if you're unlucky?

The only thing that is kinda out of whack are adrenals, and thats only coz it takes so freaking many resources for 15 seconds buff its silly. Adrenal mats req need to get nerfed, aside from that I could not care less if reusables get removed or not.
Well the adrenals are a huge advantage, and no one and I mean no one sells blue med pacs on my server, so they only way to get them would be to craft them yourself. I sell 20 ultimate med pacs (green) on my server for 120k with no problem. I've been tempted to try making the blue ones and selling them, but it would have to be for an insane amount with the mats involved.

UncleJimbo's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 02:47 AM | #332
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzBlix View Post
Go ahead, because I never chased flavor of the month. I still have my armormech that I originally made when everyone said how much they suck. I did biochem on alt one to ensure that I could make CONSUMABLES for my toons, regardless with what they did with the profession. I didn't bank on OP reusables on my main that raids. I know it's going to make people sad that their crew skill will no longer be required end game, but get over it.

Oh I also have a 400 slicer which is L337, even though people complain about how hard it got nerfed, it's still awesome. People will whine about anything.

OP crew skill is OP period.
I did not chase fotm in any mmo I played so far, especially crafting.
I chose biochem because I am a heavy pot user in any game, but when the profession will eat money and provide little usage, well it make no sense to use it anymore.
Like I said before and in other posts, remove reusable or make them bind on use, I could not care less, but do not make their contribution so minimal that it does not make sense to have it.

aypolo's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 07:10 AM | #333
Quote: Originally Posted by Chunkie View Post

Even Biochemists should want this change, because with so many biochemists, the market for stims and medpacs is just not there.

The perks for a biochemist should be stronger stim/adrenals/medpacs for their own use only. Change the reusables to the Exotech (requiring 400 biochem to use), and drop their mats to only requiring one Radioactive Paste (4 is absurd).

You high?
You presume way too much. _and_ you contradict yourself.
So biochemists want a bigger market (which not all of them do, if it means that you loose reusables), so we should make adrenals for the biochemst's use only.

Read over what you said.

Archiwizard's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 09:42 AM | #334
This doesn't take a genious to figure out reuasables don't work every gamer who takes an active role in raiding and pvp etc has now got a permabuff and an influx of money created by all those people who don't have biochem buying stims from them.

If I play for say 6 hours a day (basically my free time) it would cost me on my server for the cheapest stims 60,000 - 90,000 credits perday in order to have an equal standing with biochemist. I understand why you would want to either give buffs to other crafting or make everyone get reusables but I think you are wrong, this defeats the purpose of crafting and MMO's in general.

You should not be being handed stuff you should have to work for it! Look at EVE as an example this is a huge MMO still subbed and growing all the time. Putting aside other issues with that game it got one thing right you want something you gotta go get it and no ones going to give you it for nothing everything from a booster to a spacecraft costs you in that game and when it's gone it's gone. 3rd person MMO's have a vast amount to learn from a sandbox game like this.

The reason games like this struggle and wither is because they cater to the lazy who hide behind excuses. The only reason WoW survives is because it's a fall back with history but it is as guilty as all the rest. I believe most people would welcome a more challenging game for all it's aspects not just combat although they could do with buffing nightmare to the point at which it wakes small children in the night crying.

This might appear to be a rant and it is but it angers me somewhat when I read some peoples narrow minded approach to solving problems, the kind of people who use cellotape to fix a severed limb. My feelings on Biochem are this, reusables have to go they should be replaced by some kind of secondary stim that can be injected to increase the longevity of the biochemists buff from 2 to 4 hours in addition they should add crittable stims which have advanced stats which in turn can also be buffed in length by a biochemists personal stim buffer. I reckon this would keep most biochemists happy and add a whole new layer to the game in fact why stop there have combinational stims different ingredient stims you can pruchase and inject yourself in a certain order to individualise the buff you get the possibilities are endless.

The overall learing point is this making something called consumables reusable is probably the most oximoronic thing I have ever seen and concidering it's not the first time this mistake has been made I have lost a degree of faith in this game and it's developers who need to start thinking outside the box and remembering that just because something seems complicated it's the learning that keeps people busy and interested we all enjoy experimenting and finding something individual how they want to play.

Quinlynn's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 09:50 AM | #335
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzBlix View Post
To those complaining about losing reusables. Get over it.

I have a 400 biochem, and it's retarded. I make so much money off of it, it's absolutely insane (just selling consumables).

The fact that you get a reusable adrenal is OP, no other crew skiller could afford adrenals with the cost involved. That is a huge additional ability that no one else gets. The health packs are beyond awesome... still even after the nerf.

My other buddy who also made a 400 biochem also agrees with my sentiments on this. Overpowered crew skill is overpowered, even after nerfs.

It will still be more than useful as reusables get phased out.

Oh I almost forgot, you can also make BIS Implants for 2 slots on top of everything else.
You're really not smart.

Crafters are supposed to make credits selling consumables.

Reusable is not OP'd when it is not as good as the consumable blue prototypes. Something you would know if you were not speaking out of your leather star.

No other crew skill makes durable goods that have a crew skill requirement. If anything all crew skill requirements should be removed from the purple re-usable stims / heal packs.

Also, no one is going to buy high level implants from a Biochem when they are not as good as the Champ / BM ones.

Try again troll.

goulet's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 10:45 AM | #336
at a certain point the reusable stim is worse then the single use ones, or even pvp stims for that matter. the 30 % health heal from pvp is more then the reusable on reasonably geared players, 3k range for the reusable, for the pvp if you're say dps and have 17k health thats a 5100 heal. over time as you release new schems from new content the reusable will gradually become less appealing then the single use ones.

the reusable self buff is better then the single use by a range of +20. hardly a tipping point.

the reusable combat buffs is the most beneficial in my opinion, simply by comparison to the single use ones. the cost to produce a single use item that only last 15 seconds is ridiculous, so much so that its hard to incentivize using it relative to its duration and cost to produce. this seems to be the biggest advantage in terms of biochem vs non biochem players. the question is how do you address it? i see two options

-option one: make the single use ones either cheaper to produce, or have multiple uses on them. something in the 10 use per item range seems reasonable, that half an hour worth of buffs (3 minute cd on use)

-option two: make the reusable combat buffs available to everyone. it's not gonna mess with the game economy or the professions ability to make money, you still have self buffs and stims to sell. Additionally it solves part of the max level issues with biochem in terms of reverse engineering items to epic (purple) quality. Right now theres no point to reverse engineering anything to epic (outside of implants) at max level unless you're going to use it for yourself (which at face values seems foolish as you have the rakata version to craft for yourself, if you made it for yourself it would seem to be only temporary until you can craft the rakata).
its hard to argue this would somehow overpower classes as 1: every person with biochem currently has them and uses them, and 2: everyone who isnt biochem has access to them, with the only qualification for use being spending money to get it.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt."

HanzBlix's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 11:54 AM | #337
Quote: Originally Posted by Quinlynn View Post
You're really not smart.

Crafters are supposed to make credits selling consumables.

Reusable is not OP'd when it is not as good as the consumable blue prototypes. Something you would know if you were not speaking out of your leather star.

No other crew skill makes durable goods that have a crew skill requirement. If anything all crew skill requirements should be removed from the purple re-usable stims / heal packs.

Also, no one is going to buy high level implants from a Biochem when they are not as good as the Champ / BM ones.

Try again troll.
Right, so you save money by being able to make your own consumables which are often better than what's available on the market due to supply of materials. At the same time you are able to make consumables to make money on the market. On top of this you can craft for the implant slot, which has really nice stats on it. I'm not trolling, I have 400 biochem a 400 armormech, and a 400 slicer/ 200 synth.

Making reusable adrenals primarily is what I have an issue with. It's a stupid advantage, it's like having another ability that no one else gets, whilst being able to craft BIS implants. If it wasn't OP, everyone wouldn't have dropped their current crew skills to snag it for end game.

I made an ALT my biochem on purpose, because I knew it would be nerfed. The reason, I am smart. The crew skill is basically a requirement for someone who wants to run at peak performance, even if you dont' use the reusables. YOu wouldn't be able to afford your addiction any other way. I'm happy being able to make CONSUMABLES for all my toons without having to rely on getting raked over the coals on the GTN. It would simply be too cost prohibitive to not have my own biochem.

Anyone who doesn't see this is really in a state of denial and is sad that their free ride is over somewhere down the line. Since the devs are phasing it out, apparently the DESIGNERS of the game tend to agree with my stand point. It's really moot the change is coming. Take another crew skill since biochem is going to suck so bad now (bet you won't).

Sodian's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 11:55 AM | #338
This will be interesting when the reusable are phased out.

PeterSith's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 12:32 PM | #339
With the upcoming changes to the crafts and biochem, I hope we will be able to craft some pvp specific consumables now that reusables will be phased out.

captainwayway's Avatar

03.15.2012 , 01:35 PM | #340
Quote: Originally Posted by Terrulin View Post
I think they should keep the reusables, but use green bioanalysis mats for fuel. Ideally you would make this "fuel" from any tier of bioanalysis mats so that the last tier doesnt just become overpriced.

I personally think this is a creative idea that splits the difference between reusables with no ongoing cost, and the overpriced alternatives that currently exist.
I like this lots