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Time to end Biochem reusables

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Time to end Biochem reusables
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Sylriana's Avatar


Sylriana
02.23.2012 , 06:39 PM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by GnatB View Post
Except crewskills SHOULD be useless in combat situations.
The funny thing is. I completely agree with that point. But they've already accomplished that for Biochem.

Quote:
That is terrible game design in that it doesn't provoke players that have no desire to create/sell items to use the system at all.
That's not terrible game design. Terrible game design is forcing players who want nothing to do with a certain aspect of gameplay to spend time messing with it.

Think of the huge conniption your average raider would have if 1.2 made it so you had to PvP in order to get top tier raiding gear (or vice versa).

Leave crew skills to the people who actually want to craft and don't make people who aren't interested forced to be involved in it ( I know one of the major design changes that pissed me off more than anything in WoW was when 3.x made having 2x maxed crafting professions mandatory ).

Generally adding arbitrary combat advantages is just a way for the developer to conceal the actual problems with the crafting system in a game ( back to WoW: the fact that outside the service crafters the craft skills were largely garbage... funny enough, the same problem TOR is having right now, except TOR only has one short-term value / service crafter ).

Quote:
Due to the cost prohibitive nature of consumable stims/adrenals/medpacs, biochem people with the reusables effectively have a permanent stat boost and healing/adrenal abilities.
I still think this is a weak argument though. I put the effort into making sure I have a beefy stockpile of consumables for my use.. its hardly my fault, Bioware's fault, or a Biochemist's fault if you're unwilling to do the same.

The only tangible advantage that Biochem has is that basically every item it wants to sell is top tier, while many of the other crafting professions have their gear outstripped by top tier gear from raids/pvp ( especially the modification making professions ).... and that's an issue with the other professions, not an issue with Biochem.


Oh.. The "just do the same for every other crew skill" argument, while valid, is a bit of a misleading argument... because by and large making those items BoE is purely advantageous to the crafter, while in this instance such an endeavor would fundamentally change the way the crew skill works ( which is especially grievous because it's the only crew skill in the game that sells short term value items, taking that away would alienate any player who prefers that style of trading )... whereas giving my cybertech the ability to sell those high end speeders is just gravy.

ahmedhamade's Avatar


ahmedhamade
02.23.2012 , 06:58 PM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by Lexster View Post
A one time purchase over a lifetime supply of consumables? Orange armor will compound this problem, since once you get a critted piece for every slot there is no benefit to having said crafts.
Really? Maybe on your server but on mine the benefit will be easy money. As of right now the purple level 49/50 crit armor pieces go for 200k+. So yeah the Synthweaver would have to buy his stims but he wont have a problem affording them by selling items on the GTN.

Again the game does not revolve around YOU. It is an online world with an online economy & there is plenty of ways to make money. If you have not figured out how to do so then I almost feel sorry for you, dont try and take it out on biochem's.

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
02.23.2012 , 08:12 PM | #223
Quote: Originally Posted by ahmedhamade View Post
Really? Maybe on your server but on mine the benefit will be easy money. As of right now the purple level 49/50 crit armor pieces go for 200k+. So yeah the Synthweaver would have to buy his stims but he wont have a problem affording them by selling items on the GTN.
You do realize that it takes maybe 30 synthweaving skill to make orange armor? And it only needs the cheapest and most readily available supplies?

Stuff is expensive because it's rare/expensive to make/time consuming to make (or get the skill to make).

that lvl 49/50 crit armor pieces go for 200k+, because they require mandalorian iron, 400 skill, Numerous RE attempts to learn the correct schematic, and then takes a long time to crafter per attempt.

Orange stuff is none of the above. Schematics show up (frequently enough) from Underworld trading as a free bonus. Mats required aren't rare. Skill level (and level of mats required) are low.

Unless they do more than simply make orange items crittable, orange items will *destroy* the armor making skills. Other than cosmetics, there will be virtually no reason to have more than 30 skill. (or maybe 100, think the first orange helm may require 100 skill).

Lexster's Avatar


Lexster
02.23.2012 , 08:54 PM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by ahmedhamade View Post
Really? Maybe on your server but on mine the benefit will be easy money. As of right now the purple level 49/50 crit armor pieces go for 200k+. So yeah the Synthweaver would have to buy his stims but he wont have a problem affording them by selling items on the GTN.

Again the game does not revolve around YOU. It is an online world with an online economy & there is plenty of ways to make money. If you have not figured out how to do so then I almost feel sorry for you, dont try and take it out on biochem's.
I did not say anything about the value of item being sold. I am saying that with the upcoming changes to orange gear availability and augmentation, after the first piece you get for a slot there is no additional benefit to being a synthweaver, armormech, etc. A slightly less potent reusable that is not consumed however does provide a bonus to that individual player for all the times where they dont have to be min-maxed.

Remulan's Avatar


Remulan
02.24.2012 , 08:31 AM | #225
Quote: Originally Posted by Lexster View Post
I did not say anything about the value of item being sold. I am saying that with the upcoming changes to orange gear availability and augmentation, after the first piece you get for a slot there is no additional benefit to being a synthweaver, armormech, etc. A slightly less potent reusable that is not consumed however does provide a bonus to that individual player for all the times where they dont have to be min-maxed.
Except all the credits you make selling armor to other people. Biochem is just saving their users credits. Oh look both skills accomplish the same thing....

nuzuk's Avatar


nuzuk
02.24.2012 , 09:14 AM | #226
I can not help but laugh at people here. Yes you can add reusables to other classes. They all dont need to ve heals we don't need crafting communism. Here lets give some examples since some people lack imagination...
Armstech= weapons mods, ammo ect that add various reuables for dps purposes
Synthweave armor get armor mods ect.
Cybertech some sort of damage dealing droid.
No they all dont get the swiss army knife that biochem
gets because its stupid to make them all identical

Remulan's Avatar


Remulan
02.24.2012 , 09:49 AM | #227
Quote: Originally Posted by nuzuk View Post
I can not help but laugh at people here. Yes you can add reusables to other classes. They all dont need to ve heals we don't need crafting communism. Here lets give some examples since some people lack imagination...
Armstech= weapons mods, ammo ect that add various reuables for dps purposes
Synthweave armor get armor mods ect.
Cybertech some sort of damage dealing droid.
No they all dont get the swiss army knife that biochem
gets because its stupid to make them all identical
All those things you listed would make those professions have actual combat advantages. Biochem right now offers you credits just like the other tradeskills do, it just saves them for you instead of making them for you.

All the tradeskills basically do the same thing, increase the amount of credits you have to spend on things. Some need more items to sell to be more profitable, but that is an issue with those skills, not biochem.

Excidium's Avatar


Excidium
02.24.2012 , 09:51 AM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by nuzuk View Post
I can not help but laugh at people here. Yes you can add reusables to other classes. They all dont need to ve heals we don't need crafting communism. Here lets give some examples since some people lack imagination...
Armstech= weapons mods, ammo ect that add various reuables for dps purposes
Synthweave armor get armor mods ect.
Cybertech some sort of damage dealing droid.
No they all dont get the swiss army knife that biochem
gets because its stupid to make them all identical
Cybertech already has reusable grenades.

All this QQ over Biochem is ridiculous...you could have easily checked what each profession does before leveling yours. I was going to level armormech but then I saw everything they craft is completely redundant, so went cybertech instead.
Excidia @ Jung Ma

NermalDetonator's Avatar


NermalDetonator
02.24.2012 , 10:02 AM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by Elrenia View Post
"It clearly is overpowering because having a free heal, free adrenals and free stims is just too powerful."

- im assuming you are referring to this in PVP, becaues lets face it.. no raid is going to complain about it in an operation are they....
Arent like 99% of whines and calls for nerfs PVP related?

JUst ban them from PVP zones, give everyone a reusable PVP stim/adrenal/medpack, and be done with it. If you rolled on an open PVP server, that's your problem, because you shouldnt get to jack with the game for everyone else.

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
02.24.2012 , 11:31 AM | #230
I'm a BioChemist and I don't care what the market is right now, if you remove reusable "consumables" from BioChemists and do not dramatically increase the availability of raw materials to produce those consumables, the market will completely dry up. The reason for this is that BioChemists will keep everything they make for themselves.

I've tried to farm materials to produce my goods for sale via GTN. It's brutal. There is nothing fun or entertaining about it. In fact, it's not even profitable given the amount of credits I could make in the same amount of time doing something - anything - else.

Be careful what you wish for.