The patch notes show the upcoming patch taking a giant dump on raiders and DPS players...just what in the heck? I swear it's feeling more and more like the crap that lead up to the mass exodus of players from SWG. Yes, I know...an SWG reference...and I am loathe to make it but...it's just uncanny.

 

Four more months left on my sub and I'll give it an honest go because I have loved this game from day one but it's not looking promising for the following reasons over an above the upcoming disaster of an update looming over us on Tuesday:

 

1) No individual story by class. You take one class/character thru KotFE and you've taken them all basically.

 

2) Concern over if pre-KotFE companions, especially romanced ones, will come back at all and, if/when they do, are they going to be dynamic characters with a furtherance of their interactions/growth with my player character? If they are simply going to be fighting/healing vanity pets, that's a deal-breaker for me.

 

3) The grind. Holy crap, the GRIND! If it was legacy-wide, I would fine with it but I simply am NOT going to do this horrific grind on all my alts...or even some...of my alts. One for each faction is barely tolerable but any more and I will figuratively shoot myself in the head with my own blaster or throw myself upon my own light saber.

 

Which leads me to...

 

4) I have grown very attached to some of my alts and their stories and journey but the gawd-awful grind in prohibitive at best (my opinion only, others mileage will vary) so they will sadly end up gathering dust.

 

5) Choices matter? WHAT CHOICES?!! Really, to what choices do you refer? Romance cheating? Okay. Buy I have yet to see any of the potentially big choices that have presented themselves result in actually GIVING my character an actual "say" in how they respond or...having their response actually effect the direction of the story. Perhaps it's meant to be far-reaching or further ...much further...along in the chapters before we notice these alleged "choices matter" effects. Okay, I'll take that possibility into consideration but the fact remains that thus far some really great big choices were snatched from my character's hands right from the get-go. Kneel or don't...if doesn't freaking matter in the end, is a good example. Just...meh.

 

6) FP's turned into Tactical's from hell. No balance, just slap some Kolto tanks in there a whoa-la.

 

7) And, quite frankly...the community. It's as divided as I have ever seen on any MMO I've played and I started playing MMO's way back in the day with EQ. I thought WoW's community was bad but SWTOR's is tied for first place now. The trolling, the attitudes, etc. I'm not (only) talking just about forums. I'm talking about in game. It's to the point where as soon as I log in, I immediately turn chat off. I sure as hell don't want to run FP's etc with everyone screaming "SPACEBAR!" and cussing a new player (or any player) out if they actually want to watch the cut-scenes. The community is making the game environment very hostile and negative. I game to get away from political crap, religion crap, racist crap, terrorist crap, and people just going out of their way to be jerks to one another for laughs. I get enough of that in real life.

 

 

Well, I'm locked in for four more months...actually 3.5 now I think...so I will give all these rekt changes an honest go but really, I see myself moving my monthly sub back to FFXIV, and playing Guild Wars, and the great single-player games that are out and soon to come out, etc. The community in FFXIV on my server is really friendly, no one throws a hissy-fit if your a new player and want to watch the cut-scene in an instance, etc. I'd forgotten how much I enjoy that game and the community there. It's rare to see constant trolling and bickering in chat in the major areas. It's such a refreshing change. They have a new expansion out as does Guild Wars 2 and they aren't 30 minutes of material.

 

Anyhoo, I have no idea who is making the actual decisions on this stuff but they need to have a good slap upside the head. I'm sure the game will survive for a while even with a steady loss of consistent subs but really, I'm just left smh now days.

4 months of sub is still a LOT of time.....enjoy!

Sick to death hearing about the grind, same players will be crying about nothing to do once KotFE ends.

 

OMG what am I supposed to do now my characters got nothing to do. is all we will hear after.

Sick to death hearing about the grind, same players will be crying about nothing to do once KotFE ends.

 

OMG what am I supposed to do now my characters got nothing to do. is all we will hear after.

 

So those were the only two possible choices? Either crazy grind or nothing to do?

 

How about... more actual new stuff to do?

4 months of sub is still a LOT of time.....enjoy!

Well ... they did pump out Legacy, guild banks and a customizable UI in 4 months. Edited December 8, 2015 by GalacticKegger

Marauder and Assassin are the last two classes that needed to be depowered.

 

Throw onto that the endgame Flash Point difficulty issues and the companion nerfs which should have been restored 100% where they were 4.0

The patch notes show the upcoming patch taking a giant dump on raiders and DPS players...just what in the heck? I swear it's feeling more and more like the crap that lead up to the mass exodus of players from SWG. Yes, I know...an SWG reference...and I am loathe to make it but...it's just uncanny.

 

Four more months left on my sub and I'll give it an honest go because I have loved this game from day one but it's not looking promising for the following reasons over an above the upcoming disaster of an update looming over us on Tuesday:

 

1) No individual story by class. You take one class/character thru KotFE and you've taken them all basically.

 

2) Concern over if pre-KotFE companions, especially romanced ones, will come back at all and, if/when they do, are they going to be dynamic characters with a furtherance of their interactions/growth with my player character? If they are simply going to be fighting/healing vanity pets, that's a deal-breaker for me.

 

3) The grind. Holy crap, the GRIND! If it was legacy-wide, I would fine with it but I simply am NOT going to do this horrific grind on all my alts...or even some...of my alts. One for each faction is barely tolerable but any more and I will figuratively shoot myself in the head with my own blaster or throw myself upon my own light saber.

 

Which leads me to...

 

4) I have grown very attached to some of my alts and their stories and journey but the gawd-awful grind in prohibitive at best (my opinion only, others mileage will vary) so they will sadly end up gathering dust.

 

5) Choices matter? WHAT CHOICES?!! Really, to what choices do you refer? Romance cheating? Okay. Buy I have yet to see any of the potentially big choices that have presented themselves result in actually GIVING my character an actual "say" in how they respond or...having their response actually effect the direction of the story. Perhaps it's meant to be far-reaching or further ...much further...along in the chapters before we notice these alleged "choices matter" effects. Okay, I'll take that possibility into consideration but the fact remains that thus far some really great big choices were snatched from my character's hands right from the get-go. Kneel or don't...if doesn't freaking matter in the end, is a good example. Just...meh.

 

6) FP's turned into Tactical's from hell. No balance, just slap some Kolto tanks in there a whoa-la.

 

7) And, quite frankly...the community. It's as divided as I have ever seen on any MMO I've played and I started playing MMO's way back in the day with EQ. I thought WoW's community was bad but SWTOR's is tied for first place now. The trolling, the attitudes, etc. I'm not (only) talking just about forums. I'm talking about in game. It's to the point where as soon as I log in, I immediately turn chat off. I sure as hell don't want to run FP's etc with everyone screaming "SPACEBAR!" and cussing a new player (or any player) out if they actually want to watch the cut-scenes. The community is making the game environment very hostile and negative. I game to get away from political crap, religion crap, racist crap, terrorist crap, and people just going out of their way to be jerks to one another for laughs. I get enough of that in real life.

 

 

Well, I'm locked in for four more months...actually 3.5 now I think...so I will give all these rekt changes an honest go but really, I see myself moving my monthly sub back to FFXIV, and playing Guild Wars, and the great single-player games that are out and soon to come out, etc. The community in FFXIV on my server is really friendly, no one throws a hissy-fit if your a new player and want to watch the cut-scene in an instance, etc. I'd forgotten how much I enjoy that game and the community there. It's rare to see constant trolling and bickering in chat in the major areas. It's such a refreshing change. They have a new expansion out as does Guild Wars 2 and they aren't 30 minutes of material.

 

Anyhoo, I have no idea who is making the actual decisions on this stuff but they need to have a good slap upside the head. I'm sure the game will survive for a while even with a steady loss of consistent subs but really, I'm just left smh now days.

 

The issue is not that they are not making good story's the issue is they are not making a story for each class. That's the issue. As far as everything else. They might change things, or they might not. I agree the the companion romance is not much to look at. How ever only time will tell with this game. I think the thing that hurts me the most is this game has no limit to what it could be as far as story and were to take it. That's the great thing about it. It could go anywhere But the choices they make break my heart every time. As someone once said we keep giving money to the wrong people.

Yeah I wanted a lot more say in the direction the story went. I want to be able to romance senya. I want to reject the lunatic sions from the very beginning. I want the ability to kill some of the companions, especially theron shan. Edited December 8, 2015 by samhinch

This complete disregard for the core audience of the game, moving multiple mutually exclusive directions all at the same time and general poor design decisions without properly considering and utilizing input from the community at large is VERY much the same bad behavior that those few of us who were around for SWG from beginning to end, observed in the CU and NGE after a few short expansions.

 

Sony Online Entertainment didn't learn their lesson. They allowed their developers to dictate to the players what the players would like, critical feedback (be it constructive or not) was summarily stamped out by a team of moderators more interested in their next paycheck than any health of the game, and the general dumbing down and oversimplification (or poorly executed simplification in the case of crafting) as well as future promises of betterment (ala Fix crafting, NiM ops and some good stuff in February after months of snubbing the entire player base).

 

Thunderheart was the Eric Musco of those days, and he appeared less and less on the forums as it became very obvious people making the decisions for the overall game neither played it nor cared about anything beyond the quarterly subscriber numbers. They learned....only at the end how much they neglected their customers and did themselves a disservice.

 

BW needs to pull its head out, the direction they're moving of casual accessibility at the expense of mid/hard-code raiders/pvp/completionists (the core sub pool with the lowest churn) is not going to be sustainable. The new movie will absolutely bring new casual players to the game. But in a year, those players will move on to EverCrack4 or World of Pedobear and the devs will be "left with" the small quantity of raiders/pvp/completionists that only continue to pay as their subs are on autopay.

 

"All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." -- Caprica Six

True words!

 

:mad::mad: at BioWare!!!

Hi, I'm a new player, I just started 2 days ago and subscribed because I liked the game a lot, but now I just found out that the whole game's economy is ruined by massive exploits which allow players to sell duped items and make a lot of profit. This in turn drives up prices for items that can't be duped (because the dupers have so much money, they can buy all the legit items. This is very concerning for a new player like myself, as I feel the only way I'm going to be able to compete as a player, and maintain financial viability is to become an exploiter. Apparently this exploit has been in use for 6 weeks now and will take months for the economy to recover. Please fix this issue immediately, I don't care about nerfing DPS, I care about being able to play in a healthy gaming environment.

None of those points are valid , the grind was removed from this game with 4.0 patch you can gear up in a matter of days to BiS compared to months.

 

PvE is so easy that they could nerf everything to space and back and content would still be stomped.

 

Everything is legacy - wide , the unlocks , the collections , even PvP gear with the legacy boxes.

 

You cannot reach a more high level of casual , stop complaining dude and if you do make some valid points next time.

Hi, I'm a new player, I just started 2 days ago and subscribed because I liked the game a lot, but now I just found out that the whole game's economy is ruined by massive exploits which allow players to sell duped items and make a lot of profit. This in turn drives up prices for items that can't be duped (because the dupers have so much money, they can buy all the legit items. This is very concerning for a new player like myself, as I feel the only way I'm going to be able to compete as a player, and maintain financial viability is to become an exploiter. Apparently this exploit has been in use for 6 weeks now and will take months for the economy to recover. Please fix this issue immediately, I don't care about nerfing DPS, I care about being able to play in a healthy gaming environment

 

You don't need to buy anything from other players. If you start as level 1 and do the missions, you get data crystals. Save these. The missions award gear which is adequate to get through the content. Once you reach lvl 60, you can jump right into the KOTFE story.

 

When you finish the story , you should be level 65, and in Odessen. Remember the data crystals you have been saving since level one? Use them to buy a full set of Outlander purple gear.

 

You are now ready to do weekly heroics and the star fortress flashpoints to level your alliance.

 

That is the game! Enjoy. Of course, you don't need to sub for the 1-50 part. Totally up to you though.

 

The great part is that you can completely ignore all "multiplayer" features and play at your own pace and not have to worry who else might ruin your experience.

 

There is nothing to "compete" for. The devs are working to make the multiplayer stuff irrelevant

Edited December 8, 2015 by Tarkashae

KOTFE is a great movie.

 

Taking an alt through KotFE right now, and actually wondering why. The story is identical. I don't gain anything. I lose the companions I liked. Why did I do this to my character? I was already L65, I didn't need to. Rest assured, no further alts will suffer this way. It's not like getting to 65 takes very long.

A lot of disciplines got the 30 -> 10 drop in 4.0. They just drop everything else to the same line with those other disciplines. Edited December 8, 2015 by Halinalle

You don't need to buy anything from other players. If you start as level 1 and do the missions, you get data crystals. Save these. The missions award gear which is adequate to get through the content. Once you reach lvl 60, you can jump right into the KOTFE story.

 

When you finish the story , you should be level 65, and in Odessen. Remember the data crystals you have been saving since level one? Use them to buy a full set of Outlander purple gear.

 

You are now ready to do weekly heroics and the star fortress flashpoints to level your alliance.

 

That is the game! Enjoy. Of course, you don't need to sub for the 1-50 part. Totally up to you though.

 

The great part is that you can completely ignore all "multiplayer" features and play at your own pace and not have to worry who else might ruin your experience.

 

There is nothing to "compete" for. The devs are working to make the multiplayer stuff irrelevant

 

A decent economy enhances the game a great deal. And besides his post was about the duping exploit.

This alone shows that this is a crappy team running the show here, to let this exploit go unattended for six weeks.

 

The Kotfe storyline was great, even though there are no choices and poor replayability. I think it was outsourced by a different team, because the live team or whatever you want to call it, are way in over their heads.

 

I totally agree with what the op said.

This alone shows that this is a crappy team running the show here, to let this exploit go unattended for six weeks.

 

Yes. Why people continue to pay for this, I have no idea.

None of those points are valid , the grind was removed from this game with 4.0 patch you can gear up in a matter of days to BiS compared to months.

 

PvE is so easy that they could nerf everything to space and back and content would still be stomped.

 

Everything is legacy - wide , the unlocks , the collections , even PvP gear with the legacy boxes.

 

You cannot reach a more high level of casual , stop complaining dude and if you do make some valid points next time.

 

Hi. I am not talking about the gear grind, the collections, etc. I am talking about the planetary heroics grind for your alliance and companion influence. That is not legacy-wide it is per character. It's a tedious grind of old content with diminishing returns. It has even LESS value when it doesn't matter what character class you play, the KotFE story line is going to be the same regardless. It is not an alt-friendly design in a game that was built around alts and a foundation of a wide range of story lines based on class as well as choices made. That's all gone now once one hits KotFE.

 

Sorry for confusing you. I should have been more specific.

 

Edited because my typing stinks, lol.

Edited December 8, 2015 by mrsrachelm

I agree with a lot of what you said, OP. Despite that, I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate here for a minute.

 

Story....yes, the choices suck right now. It's hard to see how anything we have chosen matters. However, we still have 6 or 7 chapters to go, I think. With this, we don't know if they will matter down the line or not. If we were finish with KotFE and every single choice (DS/LS/Whatever) lead to the same conclusion, I would be carrying a torch and providing pitchforks to all. I'm interested to see where it all leads, though.

 

Old Companions....I refuse to play a number of my characters (my bounty hunter specifically) because I don't see where the companions are coming back, yet. Now, if/when they pop up I'll start to level her again. My concern, with pre-kotfe romance companions, is getting the kotor style cutscene where it's one sided VO. Which will really make me mad despite having only one character romanced to a pre-kotfe LI.

 

Class Story....yes, all of this, YES! I do miss that flavor in the story. Despite subtle hints about my class such as...(kotfe spoiler ahead read at own risk)

 

 

 

 

I do want to see more class flare come back. I know we will never, ever (unless a miracle happens) have class story again. I just wish many of the loose ends would be tied up or acknowledged such as....

 

 

 

 

Now, as for community, this place is a bit much at time. However, our community isn't just based on these forums. There is a wonderful community on Twitter, SWTOR Family, that is better than anything you will find on here. Yes, we bicker and fight sometimes. Yes, we rage when something happens that we don't like. Still, once the dust settles, we go back to having fun, sharing screenshots, outfits, and are generally supportive of each other. So, to say the SWTOR community is horrible isn't exactly correct. You just need to look outside of the forums.

Agree with the OP on all points and I will add:

 

1) The dumbing down of stats is just stupid. You have now made everything so vanilla its boring. Actually I can live with this one if (see 2)

 

2) The vanilla-tization of our companions. They make no difference to us now. No specific crafting skills/gather skills, no means to make them the best they can be (no longer able to use mods, enhancements, armor, hilts...etc).

 

3) I actually have grown attached to some of my old companions. Now to have them MIA... I get it ...its part of the story. And I actually don't mind this part. BUT to tie getting these companions back to specific playstyles..(ie you MUST PVP or PVE to get back a comp is just BAD for the playerbase).

 

4) The ever persistent nerfing of abilities. Enough already.... you beat everyone with the nerf bat yet Sorcs/Sages still out heal Commandos by a LONG shot.

 

5) and my least favorite thing you have done BIOWARE.... this GRIND... I too like the OP don't mind a grind once or twice...but I have 11 Alts.... There is no way on gods green earth I will do this grind with all of them. Heck I couldn't even get through SOR with all of them....

 

And of course the lack of group content which is killing Guild participation at all levels......

 

I love SWTOR...been a day 1 subscriber. But since Rise of the Hutts came out you have been steadily become a one trick pony. Rehashing old content and expecting that to keep our attention. Just bad.... guess you on relying on the influx of new players after the movie releases to replace all the subs you are loosing from long time players.

This complete disregard for the core audience of the game, moving multiple mutually exclusive directions all at the same time and general poor design decisions without properly considering and utilizing input from the community at large is VERY much the same bad behavior that those few of us who were around for SWG from beginning to end, observed in the CU and NGE after a few short expansions.

 

Sony Online Entertainment didn't learn their lesson. They allowed their developers to dictate to the players what the players would like, critical feedback (be it constructive or not) was summarily stamped out by a team of moderators more interested in their next paycheck than any health of the game, and the general dumbing down and oversimplification (or poorly executed simplification in the case of crafting) as well as future promises of betterment (ala Fix crafting, NiM ops and some good stuff in February after months of snubbing the entire player base).

 

Thunderheart was the Eric Musco of those days, and he appeared less and less on the forums as it became very obvious people making the decisions for the overall game neither played it nor cared about anything beyond the quarterly subscriber numbers. They learned....only at the end how much they neglected their customers and did themselves a disservice.

 

BW needs to pull its head out, the direction they're moving of casual accessibility at the expense of mid/hard-code raiders/pvp/completionists (the core sub pool with the lowest churn) is not going to be sustainable. The new movie will absolutely bring new casual players to the game. But in a year, those players will move on to EverCrack4 or World of Pedobear and the devs will be "left with" the small quantity of raiders/pvp/completionists that only continue to pay as their subs are on autopay.

 

"All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." -- Caprica Six

 

^^^this^^^ Well said.