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Forever a sith?


RealStiven's Avatar


RealStiven
11.09.2015 , 06:02 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
being a Sith, is about maintaining their beliefs.
Lol no. Sith is about breaking chains, and seeking great challenges, for world views and ideas include. There is as many Sith's point of views on world as Siths themselves. Please play some SW games first, or at least Empire story line.

Joachimthbear's Avatar


Joachimthbear
11.09.2015 , 06:45 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by RealStiven View Post
Lol no. Sith is about breaking chains, and seeking great challenges, for world views and ideas include. There is as many Sith's point of views on world as Siths themselves. Please play some SW games first, or at least Empire story line.
Whereas, obviously, there's only one interpretation of the Jedi and their beliefs, and it's the one you hate. I can only assume you're not much of a fan of Darth Bane, the Sith'ari of prophecy who killed almost every other living Sith in his day so that from then on they would operate by his Rule of Two. So much for all that diversity of interpretation.

As for Lana, I don't know. I'm not sure how to interpret her. "Pragmatism" alone is not a motivation or a goal. Is she a true believer in the Sith and the Empire? Does she, in the end, want to see the Republic destroyed and its people enslaved? In the end, it's what she really believes in that will determine where she will end up.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
11.09.2015 , 07:55 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by RealStiven View Post
Lol no. Sith is about breaking chains, and seeking great challenges, for world views and ideas include. There is as many Sith's point of views on world as Siths themselves. Please play some SW games first, or at least Empire story line.
There's as many Jedi point of views as their are Jedi themselves.

Qui Gon didn't follow the Jedi's Order's way of thinking. Obi Wan rebeled himself.

Let me guess...if you're like most people who don't care for the Jedi...it's because you think they keep you from being yourself because they say one can't have a relationship? Something many already know many will fail with.

When it's the Sith who show why they have such a rules (whether one believes in the rule or not). You're in love with someone you have all this power and they're killed! Good chance you go all Anakin and wipe out the village that let it happen! You love someone and walk in on them cheating on you! Good chance one or both of them become a blood stain on your wall.

I'm sure a LS Sith would just dismember them all and get LS points for not killing them, but that's besides the point
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

nimmerstil's Avatar


nimmerstil
11.10.2015 , 01:22 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
When it's the Sith who show why they have such a rules (whether one believes in the rule or not). You're in love with someone you have all this power and they're killed! Good chance you go all Anakin and wipe out the village that let it happen! You love someone and walk in on them cheating on you! Good chance one or both of them become a blood stain on your wall.
Anakin wasn't raised as Sith though ... It was the Jedi that failed to address his issues. Avoiding attachments is not the way to prevent disasters, teaching young Padawan's and Jedi to handle loss is a better and more durable approach.

Joachimthbear's Avatar


Joachimthbear
11.10.2015 , 06:17 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by nimmerstil View Post
...teaching young Padawan's and Jedi to handle loss is a better and more durable approach.
But how do you do that in advance of the loss itself? Only by teaching some kind of philosophy or mental preparedness to deal with death... which the Jedi do. How well they do it is a different question, but can easily come under the heading of "bad writing" rather than "the Jedi have the wrong approach".

Based on what we know of the Jedi and their beliefs I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Anakin got years of teaching and meditation on the subject of what "there is no death, there is the Force" means. But until the moment when his mother died in his arms, his belief in that principle had never been truly tested. The Jedi could have given him counselling and support afterwards, if he had told them the truth about what happened. But that would have been too late to stop his vengeful rampage anyway.

I know this isn't an argument you like, but there really is a world of difference between recognising a problem (Force users falling to the Dark Side because of personal trauma) and applying an imperfect solution, versus outright encouraging the problem as a source of "strength".

Abvora's Avatar


Abvora
11.10.2015 , 06:42 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
I would assume she isn't considered a Jedi anymore because she joined a Sith Lord and helped him murder Republic citizens for no reason.
I would also assume it's because she's sleeping with said Sith Lord :P (or might be. You might not have romanced her).

Quote: Originally Posted by RealStiven View Post
Nope, in her dialoges, she is LS as f&ck to the end. Always cared so much about saving meatbags, and getting very angry on Incv for killing,
She is so not Light-side anymore. Or, to be specific, she's not what the Jedi would consider Light. By the end of her conversations she's a Grey Jedi or a Light Sith--she goes on about how peace is a lie and the Jedi are complacent and how you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals. Very, very un-Jedi like, so of course they renounce her.

What she doesn't like is mindless bloodshed. She's fine with murder if it has a reason. Not so much with torturing puppies for ***** and giggles.
BIOWARE: THANK YOU FOR THERAN SHAN IN KOTFE.

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
11.10.2015 , 08:14 PM | #17
Indeed she is rather "grey" or the darker shade of it as I said the problem is she still thinks she is a jedi and she believes she hasn't fallen. As I said in my last post I hope its something we can sort out in the next expansion.

To either put her on the correct path or complete the process of her falling to the dark side completely when you reach the end of her conversations she is almost there.

Oh and its nice of bioware to tie companion conversations to story points not approval I feel it flows a lot better.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
11.10.2015 , 08:23 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by nimmerstil View Post
Anakin wasn't raised as Sith though ... It was the Jedi that failed to address his issues. Avoiding attachments is not the way to prevent disasters, teaching young Padawan's and Jedi to handle loss is a better and more durable approach.
I agree. I don't think Jedi's no attachment philosophy is the right one (though I will say, maybe it works better for the those indoctrined younger...which I never got the feeling that our characters were raised in the order) or the right way to go, but, Sith way of dealing with it, is to do what Anakin did

That's their way. Channel the hatred. Kill them all.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Nihilkult's Avatar


Nihilkult
11.11.2015 , 02:52 AM | #19
Ashara LS as **** to the end?! She came along me kicking Tython's sorry butt and she didn't say anything about that.
Also, if you click on her between conversations chances are she recites both Jedi and Sith code in the same time.
Also she says that she found peace but in the same time understood the sith "passion" thing or something like that but basically she tells you she thinks to have understood both doctrins, questions both orders etc. But in the end she's more sith-like than jedi for sure. But not the "let's zap people for the lelz" type of sith and that's why I take her around every mission instead of Xalek.
My sith went more grey in the process too in her contact. Started her as a "zappy" stih style and just figured she couldn't ignore everything Ashara was questioning and eventually made her tone it down regarding the mindless zapping so much she's now back to "neutral" in alignment.

Regarding Lana well...yeah , she looks pragmatic and all in SoR but in Kotfe I saw her getting mad at my sith and trying to kill that knight (while here, my sith got pragmatic instead telling her to let him live so that they prove the emperor lies about them)....
Nah, I'm confident she won't turn into a jedi.

On the question about "are Jedi good guys"?
It's a religious sect that is less nocive than the Sith for sure. But still I guess the galaxy would have fared much better without Sith and Jedi jumping at each other's throats during milleniums for belief matters and then vengeance too.
Are the Sith only to blame for this neverending war? I don't think so. The Jedi are prone to raise their lightsaber as soon as they spot a Sith as well.
During SoR they could see how strong they can get working along, same seems to be going on in Kotfe but nooo they have to go back to their neverending feud. So far for "freedom" and "peace".

Canareth's Avatar


Canareth
11.11.2015 , 11:19 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Abvora View Post
I would also assume it's because she's sleeping with said Sith Lord :P (or might be. You might not have romanced her).



She is so not Light-side anymore. Or, to be specific, she's not what the Jedi would consider Light. By the end of her conversations she's a Grey Jedi or a Light Sith--she goes on about how peace is a lie and the Jedi are complacent and how you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals. Very, very un-Jedi like, so of course they renounce her.

What she doesn't like is mindless bloodshed. She's fine with murder if it has a reason. Not so much with torturing puppies for ***** and giggles.
Ashara outright approvs Sith torture (of another Sith) on Corellia. Dark Side points and all. The guy's cooperation was needed and he was being stubborn.