cashogy_reborn Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The cooldown is way too long. Our pathetic reliance on gr and our vulnerability to interrupts has not been addressed. Interrupt immunity on full auto with a CoF proc honestly we cant tell. 90s sounds long, but we have yet to really test its synergy with the rest of the class's abilities. in the very, very brief moments ive had in warzones not fighting exploiters, i found that i was actually wanting Tech Override to have a shorter cooldown. but that opinion is not set in stone, cuz i cant really test anything good it would be totally awesome if the devs could maybe give us a rough ETA on a fix for bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Finally got to test this with a sage from my server (Thanks Erge!). Yes, net also prevents the use of the new invulnerability shield for the duration. Of course, if they have CC breaker available, they can pop this and then use the shield. Holy crap are you for serious on this? Net prevents sages from using their god mode? That makes no sense. Has to be a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Holy crap are you for serious on this? Net prevents sages from using their god mode? That makes no sense. Has to be a bug. Indeed. If that goes live, there will be a spectacular outcry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 The ability is clearly designed to be used as the setup for focus fire in groups. It'd be kinda odd if it didn't prevent the sage invuln shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 The ability is clearly designed to be used as the setup for focus fire in groups. It'd be kinda odd if it didn't prevent the sage invuln shield. If that were the case, it should also block Guarded by Bioware. Which it doesn't seem to be doing. It's supposed to prevent escape, not mitigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Not necessarily. Guarded lasts 4 (5 with set bonus now?) seconds. If anything it'd be a bug that it doesn't prevent guarded. Afterall it also prevents resilience (mitigation) and Hold the Line, though not saber reflect. So their definition of escape abilities is definitely a tad spotty. I don't think the Net is supposed to be the frequently used answer to all problems. It's supposed to be a strong, unique, situational cooldown. Luring what amounts to be one of the most powerful PvP cooldowns in the entire game from the enemy is nothing to scoff at. If you don't see it as useful, then you need to reevaluate your tactics and the tactics of your opponents. 45-60s wouldn't be frequent but it would be usable enough to be a consistent factor. It'd basically be like pulls in huttball. If pull was at a 90s cooldown it wouldn't be nearly as useful. There comes a point where a cooldown is so long that you're waiting for exactly the right moment, and worry about using it now, when a more important moment may come up later. That's basically the problem with trinkets. That's my worry with this ability. Look, right now we're looking at this as being our justification for coming to a ranked warzones. This is what will justify our spot. And at a 90 second cooldown there is a definite argument to be made that the utility will not be available often enough. It would have to consistently be a move which, when properly used, generates a turning point in the game. Setting up a guaranteed focus every 90 seconds? Useful certainly but useful enough to not take us over another Vanguard, a Gunslinger, another Stealth DPS? The whole meta is going to be changing. Some changes will be big (bai bai bubble stuns), some not so much (I expect a lot of smashers still). Where net fits into the meta is a big question. My initial thought is that the cooldown is too long. Maybe reality won't bear that out. I hope it doesn't. Personally I feel it should be up at least as often as Guarded by the Force, but even a 60s cooldown would be a huge improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 60 second cooldown on net would be the sweet spot imo i also want to pull for a reduction on the Power Surge/Tech Override cooldown. 120s base, 90s talented in arsenal/gunnery. i think that it should be 90s base, 60s talented in arsenal/gunnery. having it give us 2 charges for instant abilities is a very good addition, but 90s is just too long considering it is the only resistance to interrupts that the spec has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilmoka Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) I don't know if this has been posted or not because it's too long to read, but: 1. We have no way to get melee off us us. (Most is not ALL melee have an anti pushback) 2. ONLY 1 stun. It says 4 seconds, but I have never seen it last more than 2.5 even without a break. This is our ONLY stun and can easily be broken by the free out then we have 0 defense, zero deterrence vs. any melee. 3. EVEN TANKS out dps troopers, in fact by quite a bit. I was crit for over 6300 by a melee and I have at least all battlemeaster gear and same war and elite wh gear on. If I have heavy armor then sorcs are getting crit for 12k right? Nope they aren't. I am targeted top priority in warzones because commados are weak and EVERYONE knows it. Commandos and BH= need a PVP dps boost by quite a lot. 4. Most if not ALL melee have 3-4 interrupts. Commando has NOTHING!!!!! to prevent this at all. NOTHING! I can't get a single cast off. I am assault spec which is better in pvp too and heaven forbid I get off a charged bolt or plasma grenade. We need something like HUNKER DOWN for gunslinger to allow interrupt free casting for at least 5-10 seconds on a short cooldown. 5. Reactive shield is too weak. 12 seconds every 2 minutes. It says 25% dmg, but it can't be true, just like our "heavy armor." I don't expect the game to be perfect by any means, but I expect bioware to be on the fly and changes HUGE class imbalances. Blizzard knew classes were OP and let it go for like 5 months until the next big patch when that crap could be fixed in a 1 day instant patch. Here's a smart idea MMO DEVS: Have 2 tooltips on a skill, pvp and pve dmg! OMW I'm a genius. Then pvp doesn't effect pve. Inseatd of fixing one then ruining the other, do it right from the getgo. I have played the test and the mobility is better and we can at least keep sith war from leaping and assassin from running etc, but that still leaves them with 3 interrupts each. IMO 1: More defenssive abilities or make heavy armor actually heavy armor like when the game was released. 2: At least 5-10 seconds interrupt free interrupt that can be stacked with the new PTR ability just like the gunslinger mobile shield and hunker down. 3. More DPS or nerf current melee dps. IMO all melee does fridonkulous dmg now and I have yet to be hit even close to that hard by even geared casters. Edited February 25, 2013 by evilmoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I don't know if this has been posted or not because it's too long to read, but: 1. We have no way to get melee off us us. (Most is not ALL melee have an anti pushback) 2. ONLY 1 stun. It says 4 seconds, but I have never seen it last more than 2.5 even without a break. This is our ONLY stun and can easily be broken by the free out then we have 0 defense, zero deterrence vs. any melee. 3. EVEN TANKS out dps troopers, in fact by quite a bit. I was crit for over 6300 by a melee and I have at least all battlemeaster gear and same war and elite wh gear on. If I have heavy armor then sorcs are getting crit for 12k right? Nope they aren't. I am targeted top priority in warzones because commados are weak and EVERYONE knows it. Commandos and BH= need a PVP dps boost by quite a lot. 4. Most if not ALL melee have 3-4 interrupts. Commando has NOTHING!!!!! to prevent this at all. NOTHING! I can't get a single cast off. I am assault spec which is better in pvp too and heaven forbid I get off a charged bolt or plasma grenade. We need something like HUNKER DOWN for gunslinger to allow interrupt free casting for at least 5-10 seconds on a short cooldown. . What are you smoking? 1 we have a knockback 2 we have a root, 4 sec stun and 8 sec stun 3 is just to hard to follow 4 we have an interrupt and out knockback does the job too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) The ability is clearly designed to be used as the setup for focus fire in groups. It'd be kinda odd if it didn't prevent the sage invuln shield. Why would that be odd? Barrier isn't an escape. The sage can't move. That's like saying net should prevent chars from using saber ward, GBTF, deflection, or anything similar. I don't think it should prevent shroud either, though shroud shouldn't remove the "prevent escape" portion of it either. Edited February 25, 2013 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusCalera Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I don't know if this has been posted or not because it's too long to read, but: 1. We have no way to get melee off us us. (Most is not ALL melee have an anti pushback) 2. ONLY 1 stun. It says 4 seconds, but I have never seen it last more than 2.5 even without a break. This is our ONLY stun and can easily be broken by the free out then we have 0 defense, zero deterrence vs. any melee. 3. EVEN TANKS out dps troopers, in fact by quite a bit. I was crit for over 6300 by a melee and I have at least all battlemeaster gear and same war and elite wh gear on. If I have heavy armor then sorcs are getting crit for 12k right? Nope they aren't. I am targeted top priority in warzones because commados are weak and EVERYONE knows it. Commandos and BH= need a PVP dps boost by quite a lot. 4. Most if not ALL melee have 3-4 interrupts. Commando has NOTHING!!!!! to prevent this at all. NOTHING! I can't get a single cast off. I am assault spec which is better in pvp too and heaven forbid I get off a charged bolt or plasma grenade. We need something like HUNKER DOWN for gunslinger to allow interrupt free casting for at least 5-10 seconds on a short cooldown. 5. Reactive shield is too weak. 12 seconds every 2 minutes. It says 25% dmg, but it can't be true, just like our "heavy armor." . 1: It's called positioning. Learn where the best are to stand to minimize your visibility to the other team. If you think that you can play like a VG because you're assault, you are mistaken. Stay out of the thick of the fighting. Yes, you will still get focused, but it will allow you to put out some DPS. 2: And? Learn to deal with it. Nothing is going to change in this regard. Once again, for a commando, it's all about the positioning. 3: If you're getting out dpsed by a tank then you are bad. Not saying that to be hurtful or anything, given the criteria, it is true. Now lately, I've noticed that I'm not getting focused as much as I had been before because everyone seems to be buying into the theory "Commandos aren't a threat." Well, they buy into it until, for some reason, they let me get a full rotation off, without an interrupt, and they die. Though I understand that this is just because they're bads and don't know any better. 4: Assault is not "better" in PvP. People claim this but I have not seen an actual ounce of proof to back it up. More mobile? Yes, but that just means people think that they're playing a VG and can run into the battle and get curbstomped. 5: BW already knows that heavy armor isn't working like it should be. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I've got a question about net for anyone on the PTS. Is it off the GCD? I'm hoping yes, because that would make it much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I've got a question about net for anyone on the PTS. Is it off the GCD? I'm hoping yes, because that would make it much better. negative ghost rider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Sadness but not suprisingly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Look, right now we're looking at this as being our justification for coming to a ranked warzones. This is what will justify our spot. And at a 90 second cooldown there is a definite argument to be made that the utility will not be available often enough. It would have to consistently be a move which, when properly used, generates a turning point in the game. Setting up a guaranteed focus every 90 seconds? Useful certainly but useful enough to not take us over another Vanguard, a Gunslinger, another Stealth DPS? The whole meta is going to be changing. Some changes will be big (bai bai bubble stuns), some not so much (I expect a lot of smashers still). Where net fits into the meta is a big question. My initial thought is that the cooldown is too long. Maybe reality won't bear that out. I hope it doesn't. Personally I feel it should be up at least as often as Guarded by the Force, but even a 60s cooldown would be a huge improvement. Fair point I suppose. If it's cleansable I do agree that cooldown needs to be shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Assassin Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Fair point I suppose. I'm pretty much out the game, but even a 60s CD doesn't warrant a spot on rated, imo. (i'm not speaking on heals...i do not know) PT/VG and sniper still > for ranged DPS. Assy/Shdw still greater utility, even moreso now! and Mercs are still an easy tgt for smash monkeys. what role is Merc filling? and in what role does Merc perform as well as any other class? i STILL cannot find any justification on bringing a Merc into RWZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 negative ghost rider Goddamnit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) I'm pretty much out the game, but even a 60s CD doesn't warrant a spot on rated, imo. (i'm not speaking on heals...i do not know) PT/VG and sniper still > for ranged DPS. Assy/Shdw still greater utility, even moreso now! and Mercs are still an easy tgt for smash monkeys. what role is Merc filling? and in what role does Merc perform as well as any other class? i STILL cannot find any justification on bringing a Merc into RWZ. The net is an entirely unique utility that will pretty much allow your team to FF someone down. The target won't be able to escape. If the cd on net was short enough, commandos would definitely be brought to rwzs. Well healers at least, I don't know about dps ones. Edited February 25, 2013 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 60 second cooldown on net would be the sweet spot imo i also want to pull for a reduction on the Power Surge/Tech Override cooldown. 120s base, 90s talented in arsenal/gunnery. i think that it should be 90s base, 60s talented in arsenal/gunnery. having it give us 2 charges for instant abilities is a very good addition, but 90s is just too long considering it is the only resistance to interrupts that the spec has. The two abilities that make our next ability free and instant should be combined into one ability with like a 45s cd. Also make us immune to interrupts after using it for like 6 sec or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlamela Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The two abilities that make our next ability free and instant should be combined into one ability with like a 45s cd. Also make us immune to interrupts after using it for like 6 sec or something. I support this message Major Crackroxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Um im just a lil curious but cant a sorc just pull somone out of the net? I dunno havent tried it but it seems like it would work seeing as how its only affecting the person stuck in it....... Edited February 25, 2013 by Lalainnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusCalera Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Um im just a lil curious but cant a sorc just pull somone out of the net? I dunno havent tried it but it seems like it would work seeing as how its only affecting the person stuck in it....... Or, what about Intercede/Guardian Leap? Edited February 25, 2013 by DariusCalera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Or, what about Intercede/Guardian Leap? Intercede/Guardian leap would most likely be considered an escape that would be locked out, Rescue I'm not so sure of. Need to test this on the PTS, hopefully bolster gets fixed tomorrow. The two abilities that make our next ability free and instant should be combined into one ability with like a 45s cd. Also make us immune to interrupts after using it for like 6 sec or something. I'm fine with them being two different abilities (one is a trooper baseline ability) but BOTH should definitely be on a 45s cooldown. Tech Override has long been one of the most underwhelming high level abilities (battle readiness also kind of lame, though it's been buffed in 2.0). Can anyone on the PTS comment on ammo issues? MM snipers basically never run out of energy now so now I'm really starting to worry where we stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) The net is an entirely unique utility that will pretty much allow your team to FF someone down. The target won't be able to escape. If the cd on net was short enough, commandos would definitely be brought to rwzs. Well healers at least, I don't know about dps ones. 'Target won't be able to escape' - the opposing team's sorc(s) will still be able to pull the target? If so, then it is counterable. Also, not all classes need to 'escape' in rateds, when guards/heals are working well. But, the net is not the only ability Mercs are getting, so I'm just waiting when we can actually start using the PTS for testing PvP... Edited February 26, 2013 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingApproves Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Once I walked into a kindergarten class and I was totally the biggest person there. I could have taken any of them EASY. This obviously means I'm as tough as a UFC champion. My fist DPS isn't that bad. /logic I have had matches where I've done 4 times+ the next highest DPS on: My sage (hybrid) (at 50) My guardian (lolsmash) (still leveling) My sentinel (combat) (still leveling) My commando (at 50) My mercenary (sucker for punishment) (still leveling) My vanguard (assault) (still leveling) My gunslinger (sharpshooter - really badly geared) (at 50) By far the easiest were the guardian, VG and sage, closely followed by the sentinel. 800k is awesome if you're a big fish in a little pond. In the ocean there are much bigger sharks. Marry me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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