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[TFA Spoilers] coexistence of SWTOR canon and Disney canon

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
[TFA Spoilers] coexistence of SWTOR canon and Disney canon

mangleswore's Avatar


mangleswore
01.07.2016 , 01:22 AM | #1
I posted this on another thread, but it quickly became much longer than intended, to the point that I feel a new thread is warranted. The question... Does TFA ruin the continuity of swtor lore? Is swtor confirmed to be in disagreement with Canon material?

To me this question is the biggest conflict between swtor and Disney canon. Han says, those who know Luke best believe he left to search for the first Jedi temple. Its been confirmed that the planet Luke was found on its not Tython, so that's a bummer. I'm still trying to grasp at something that explains this controversy between tor lore and canon lore, and have come up with three potential explanations so far.

1)We don't know for sure that Han's belief that Luke was searching for the first temple is ACTUALLY what Luke was doing (it probably was though, why mislead the audience that way) .

2) We don't know that Luke has completed his search for the first temple, maybe he never found it (this seams unlikely because the map correctly directed Rey to Luke, which means he either found the temple, gave up looking, or point one above is accurate. The ruins in the final scene certainly allude to an ancient structure unfortunately)

3) (This is the point that I hope out how for as the most likely scapegoat for tor, but I need the help of people more familiar with tor lore to confirm my hopes. ) We know that Tython is the birthplace of Force users/Jedi, BUT I'm not aware of it ever being explicitly stated that the first TEMPLE was built on Tython. Obviously it would be assumed that the first temple was Tythonian, but if it's never directly referenced in the game, then you could argue that the jedi first constructed a temple elsewhere, possibly somewhere more relevant to the Republic, or more secretive to preserve the purity of the order (away from the Republic).

4) It is Disney canon that jedi archives can be erased of information (Kamino) by individuals/groups (effectively erasing knowledge of that planet's existence from the entire galaxy. Its still possible that Tython and the Disney planet (Ahch-To) are the SAME. The name tython has simply been lost to time and/or an intentional removal of that planet's existence from galaxy wide knowledge (not an unreasonable possibility). Even if Ahch-To is a water world, you could believe that Tythons climate changed, polar ice caps melted, and water unleased on 90% of the surface.

All of this is obviously crazy, but it really pulls me out of the swtor universe when I know that it is the equivalent of fan fiction in terms of the validity of the stories being told; the stories I want to invest time and emotion into.

Please, those more knowledgeable in topics I've posted here, enlighten me on aspects of the lore that enable or disprove my theories.

Ntol's Avatar


Ntol
01.07.2016 , 02:13 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by mangleswore View Post
All of this is obviously crazy, but it really pulls me out of the swtor universe when I know that it is the equivalent of fan fiction in terms of the validity of the stories being told; the stories I want to invest time and emotion into.
I know how you feel, but really the only thing that separates "canon" (a.k.a. Disney) lore from the rest is a huge paycheck.

As long as SWTOR is being published itīs as real as anything, no matter what Disney says. Who cares if itīs "official" or not? The Old Republic eraīs lore predates the selling of Star Wars after all.

Roccobb's Avatar


Roccobb
01.07.2016 , 10:04 AM | #3
I was upset when Disney decided the 150 books I bought over the years never happened. I was slightly disappointed that nothing from the EU even gets a nod.

But in answer to your question, I doubt they are going to say Han was wrong. The planet has nothing to do with Tython. You can rationalize different ways to make it work in your head, but reality, is, it is not Tython. We all need to get over the fact that SWTOR never happened, even as it is happening. We need to get over the fact that 150 books, never happened. I need to get over the fact that my favorite character, Corran Horn, never existed. (Him and his father were even in SWG! Ran some quests for them.) My favorite series, X-Wing novels, never happened.

You can try to make up stuff to make it work, but it doesn't work. Just play the game to enjoy the game. The books on the other hand, most were never good writing. They were decent writing, but it was Star Wars. I haven't read one in 2 years, I have been so disappointed. They sit there on my shelf taunting me.
Let's bring on a real PVP tournament! Check it out, comment, add your support or non support. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=868431

MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
01.07.2016 , 06:36 PM | #4
Tython was in the galactic core, the new world is not.

I don't think there is anyway around it.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.07.2016 , 06:51 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Roccobb View Post
I was upset when Disney decided the 150 books I bought over the years never happened. I was slightly disappointed that nothing from the EU even gets a nod.
Hey now, those 150 books gave you a good read at the very least (okay, probably not all 150 of them, but the point stil stands).

Though, is it really any different than what comic book fans have had to go through, through out the years?
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

renatolnsp's Avatar


renatolnsp
01.07.2016 , 08:25 PM | #6
We and SWTOR got busted, the new world isn't Tython. Was confirmed by a guy in charge of the new canon, according to the leaked script.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.09.2016 , 03:21 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Roccobb View Post
I was upset when Disney decided the 150 books I bought over the years never happened. I was slightly disappointed that nothing from the EU even gets a nod.
.
actually, there's a LOT of nods to the EU, out there. some minor some pretty major. in TFA alone..

1: the symbol of the new republic is slightly differnt, but the same general idea. (while we're at it, the very IDEA that the Republic's new government would be called the New Republic)
2: Kylo Ren/Darth Caedus.
3: Kylo Ren's lightsaber is a designed "used during the scourge of Malachor" (honestly I think it's pretty clear that the guys behind TFA where big KOTOR fans)
4: Rakata Prime is mentioned in the visual dictionary

I could proably find more if I looked.
SWTOR is not SWG. it was never intended to be at all like SWG. and having a completly differnt design philophesy then SWG will never be like SWG

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
01.09.2016 , 05:57 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by mangleswore View Post
I posted this on another thread, but it quickly became much longer than intended, to the point that I feel a new thread is warranted. The question... Does TFA ruin the continuity of swtor lore? Is swtor confirmed to be in disagreement with Canon material?

To me this question is the biggest conflict between swtor and Disney canon. Han says, those who know Luke best believe he left to search for the first Jedi temple. Its been confirmed that the planet Luke was found on its not Tython, so that's a bummer. I'm still trying to grasp at something that explains this controversy between tor lore and canon lore, and have come up with three potential explanations so far.

1)We don't know for sure that Han's belief that Luke was searching for the first temple is ACTUALLY what Luke was doing (it probably was though, why mislead the audience that way) .

Indeed. Especially because Luke didn't say anything, but rather had the "where is my firewater?" look. Wedon't even know where he is or what's the importance of it. At least we don't until ep VIII.

2) We don't know that Luke has completed his search for the first temple, maybe he never found it (this seams unlikely because the map correctly directed Rey to Luke, which means he either found the temple, gave up looking, or point one above is accurate. The ruins in the final scene certainly allude to an ancient structure unfortunately)

Don't assume things. Just because there are ruins about, doesn't mean that he found the ancient temple. Besides, I'd expect that they would go for the bigger awe factor for the first temple. Wait for ep VIII.

3) (This is the point that I hope out how for as the most likely scapegoat for tor, but I need the help of people more familiar with tor lore to confirm my hopes. ) We know that Tython is the birthplace of Force users/Jedi, BUT I'm not aware of it ever being explicitly stated that the first TEMPLE was built on Tython. Obviously it would be assumed that the first temple was Tythonian, but if it's never directly referenced in the game, then you could argue that the jedi first constructed a temple elsewhere, possibly somewhere more relevant to the Republic, or more secretive to preserve the purity of the order (away from the Republic).

Indeed. Nobody EVER said that the first TEMPLE was built on TYTHON. For all we know, the followers of Rajivari could've built that temple Luke's looking for(after the reformation). Or some other random group of Jedi who thought that the best way to live is to go as far from home as possible(rogue Jedi leaving Tython / Galactic Core for Ahch-To, sure why not?). If the Consular story on Tython doesn't mention the first temple or anything like it, it could still be speculated. Sure, the first CITY was built on Tython and it was the central hub for the Force culture and hence the first temple was built there? WRONG. If it's not stated, maybe it wasn't. Maybe they were reformed (A)Gnostics. Purity of the Order specifically smells of "the Rajivari followers".

4) It is Disney canon that jedi archives can be erased of information (Kamino) by individuals/groups (effectively erasing knowledge of that planet's existence from the entire galaxy. Its still possible that Tython and the Disney planet (Ahch-To) are the SAME. The name tython has simply been lost to time and/or an intentional removal of that planet's existence from galaxy wide knowledge (not an unreasonable possibility). Even if Ahch-To is a water world, you could believe that Tythons climate changed, polar ice caps melted, and water unleased on 90% of the surface.

Just like Kamino right? Or how Korriban's name got changed to Moraband on a whim? Because the Jedi Archives can be tampered with...? Don't theyhave any security there? Do they just let ANYONE do ANYTHING there? I mean, would they allow citizens to have sex in the middle of library? They sure would if they allowed various suspicious entities to defile their sacred halls. And they did. So...

As for the climate of Ahch-to and Tython. How do we know how the REST of Tython looks like? I mean, the only place we can say FOR CERTAIN how it looks like are the valleys and the ridges surrounding the Jedi Temple(which, again, doesn't have to be "the First Jedi Temple"). For all we know, the rest of Tython could look EXACTLY like Ahch-To.


All of this is obviously crazy, but it really pulls me out of the swtor universe when I know that it is the equivalent of fan fiction in terms of the validity of the stories being told; the stories I want to invest time and emotion into.

Why? SWTOR has phenomenal stories, some of which are borderline on the whole trilogy level. Maybe even above it. Taken as a whole, it is even better than the movies. I LOVE THIS part of SW. I also LOVE the part centered around Luke. But anything before Luke or after Luke(as in contemporary with Luke, but + / - 50 years or so)...I'll give it a chance and a benefit of a doubt. As I will give to sequel trilogy. But the whole annual SW movie thingie...leaves me feeling unwell. Like, I've a bad feeling about this. But SWTOR is the central hub for SW story anyhow(and consequentially, the whole TOR era). So, don't feel bad. They are seperated by 3,5 THOUSAND years! Just enjoy movies for the movie factor and SWTOR for SWTOR / story factor.

Please, those more knowledgeable in topics I've posted here, enlighten me on aspects of the lore that enable or disprove my theories.
May the Force be with you
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.09.2016 , 07:45 PM | #9
as it is the name Ach-to may only be a "working name" for it. I mean it's basicly "act 2" for crying out loud.
SWTOR is not SWG. it was never intended to be at all like SWG. and having a completly differnt design philophesy then SWG will never be like SWG

mangleswore's Avatar


mangleswore
01.11.2016 , 04:23 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
as it is the name Ach-to may only be a "working name" for it. I mean it's basicly "act 2" for crying out loud.
Yes, this ^^^