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MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
01.08.2016 , 07:53 AM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by Krixarcs View Post
Listen up junior I am an ace and I am better with the t2 gunship than you are with any ship
No idea why I'm wading into this. Bored, I guess.

I've played with and against you in a T2 GS. You are probably the best I've ever seen in that ship. I can think of one other guy who used to fly a lot of T2 on JC who was also pretty damn good in that thing. Calling yourself a "T2 Gunship ace" in your sig seems fine to me.

However, I'm with Despon/Drak and the others on this: it's great that you're good in a T2, but you'd be even more effective in either of the other gunships. Playstyle is a bit different, sure, but they are both simply so much more flexible given the better range of component options. Ion rail is the best weapon in the game. T3 can handle close-quarters combat better than any other GS. Your defense of the T2 is admirable, but I can't ever see it proving to be more impactful in a serious game than either of the other options.

Obviously, the strengths of these ships will only really shine in a real match, against top opponents. There, the T1 or T3 will simply be better options, in all scenarios I've ever been involved in. Against lesser opposition, it doesn't matter.

Maybe - in the name of science - give one of the other gunships a try and see what happens?

EDIT: in an attempt to draw this thread back to its intended purpose (and apologies to Drak for participating in the nonsense) - the above can be viewed as general info, applicable to new and old pilot alike. So, if you're new, the takeaway is that while you can probably do OK in a T2 GS, you'll do better in a T1 or T3. Try one of those before dumping req into a T2. Once you've got the other gunship's under control, sure, give the T2 a spin. You can be effective in them (as Krix has indicated) but they aren't great beginner ships, to say the least.

Zuckerkorn Zuckernaut Spiderzuck Tensorcide Zuck-srw'i
Maximilian Power TøbiasFünke Tryhard Neckbeard MaxPower-srw
Star Forge / Satele Shan / Darth Malgus


Self-Inflicted / Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
01.08.2016 , 12:12 PM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximilianPower View Post
No idea why I'm wading into this. Bored, I guess.

I've played with and against you in a T2 GS. You are probably the best I've ever seen in that ship. I can think of one other guy who used to fly a lot of T2 on JC who was also pretty damn good in that thing. Calling yourself a "T2 Gunship ace" in your sig seems fine to me.
Being likely the other "ace" using a T2 Sheep on JC...
The Comet Breaker is a piece of crap. I was using a Double Torp build and could do decently but I would have done twice as good in any other ship. I tried a rail build.. Everything it could do was done better on a Quarrel. Its only "niche" is having access to two torpedoes fired back to back. Pike and Clarion are better in in any other role it can pretend to fulfill with its missiles. And the hybrid niche isn't worth it. A slug can do everything better than proton or a thermite.
Killing some very good pilots and a **** ton of bads in a T2 doesn't make the ship viable.it's niche is too small and not good enough with all the problem plaguing torpedoes. As long as torpedoes won't be buffed, thT2 will hav no place in a competitive match.

Beside, Krix, you come across very agressively. Having to argue your way to respect and title isn't a great way to prove you're right. Be respectful of other. Stop being aggressive and listen to others, you could learn something.

PS. Sorry for all JC pilots who could have serched me.. I have been taking a pause of SWTOR for the Holidays. I should be back soon.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

LordByrondathird's Avatar


LordByrondathird
01.08.2016 , 02:01 PM | #503
Another question about bombers.

What on earth is the Sledgehammer good for?

I feel like everything it can do, something else can do but better.
Enerik, Jedi Sage Cynroll, Imperial Sniper
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Rastakon, Sith Sorcerer
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Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
01.08.2016 , 02:44 PM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by LordByrondathird View Post
Another question about bombers.

What on earth is the Sledgehammer good for?

I feel like everything it can do, something else can do but better.
Ooooh, I can answer that! It's fun.

Edit: not to say the other bombers aren't fun, but it's pretty nice to have an engine maneuver, even if it's not a "serious" ship.

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
01.08.2016 , 02:50 PM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by LordByrondathird View Post
I feel like everything it can do, something else can do but better.
That's because that's true. That's generally true for all of the "hybrid" ships (as well the strikes with the exception of the Clarion).

Lavaar's Avatar


Lavaar
01.08.2016 , 03:15 PM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by LordByrondathird View Post
Another question about bombers.

What on earth is the Sledgehammer good for?

I feel like everything it can do, something else can do but better.
The sledgehammer SEEMS like it could be a good ship. Upon examining its components, you realize that it has a lot of good ones, and different combinations that SOUND like they would work well.

So let's go ahead and assume you try to fly this new "killer" T3 bomber build you have dreamed up. You start playing it and you think to yourself "wow! this ship is great! I am doing well, everyone must have overlooked this amazing build I have made!". This goes on a little while, until one day the premade shows up, and within a couple of minutes, the weaknesses of the ship become apparent. Following the match, the T3 is removed from your bar, never to be played again.

The T3 bomber suffers a lot of the same problems that the strike fighters suffer from, primarily that they do not have a niche at which they can excel, and instead attempt to cover multiple bases and end up actually being less versatile as a result. It is for this reason that the recent strike night on shadowlands, we decided to include the T3 bomber as permissible as well, and it fit in nicely among its strike bretheren.

The discussion of the T3 bomber and why it under performs is the same discussion as to why the strike fighter under performs. Ideally, and potential future buff for strikes will also cover some of the weaknesses that the T3 bomber possesses.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.08.2016 , 04:15 PM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
About the bomber killers - how would a condor with directionals work, in your opinion? I've recently switched to directionals and wanna know if you think it's worth it.
Directionals can definitely work on a Condor/Jurgoran because this ship lacks an Armor minor component Distortion Field isn't as power on it as on a Mangler/Quarrel. Directionals can be very powerful in Gunship duels aswell since you essentially have the shields levels of Fortress shield. (assuming you have them angled forward)

I also like how using Directionals with Retro thrusters plays out on the ship. You get some really cool dog fighting power and also can do this cute maneuver where in a Gunship duel you fire your Slug railgun then immediately use Retro's. This lets you land your shot while shooting you in reverse out of range of theirs. It also keeps you angled forward so that your shields are still protecting you.

The more I play the Condor/Jurgoran in a serious setting the more I feel the shield is really down to a personal choice. While I believe Distortion is superior to Directionals on a ship that can also have Lightweight armor on a ship that doesn't have it Directionals seem about on part with Distortion.

Now when solo queue ing with the Condor/Jurgoran I wouldn't recommend using the Retro thruster tactic as this Directionals + Retro build is much more suited for being in a low moving premade team. Because you can much more easily predict where your enemies are going to come from to angle your shields and you don't need to be breaking missiles constantly as your team is all around you peeling for you. If you want to use Directionals while solo queue ing I'd go with Power Dive as your engine maneuver to give you some mobility and a little more missile breaking power.

Quote: Originally Posted by LordByrondathird View Post
Another question about bombers.

What on earth is the Sledgehammer good for?

I feel like everything it can do, something else can do but better.
For me I don't even consider the Sledgehammer/Decimus a Bomber anymore it plays way too much like a Strike fighter. Now as a Strike Fighter the Sledgehammer/Decimus is definitely the most lethal of it's kind and really tanky, it might not have as much shield power as the Clarion/Imperium but it has so much extra health it's a real pain to take down. It's weapons synchronize really well with each other, I play Heavy lasers, with Concussion missiles and Concussion mines. The mines give you some breathing room while the rest of your weapon ranges line up perfectly.

Now as others have mentioned because this ship plays so much like a Strike fighter it suffers the same problem as the Strike fighter. It's trying to do too many things at once, it doesn't specialize better then other ships. So while it can deny an area on a satellite and still engage meaningfully off a satellite, there are other ships that can do each of those jobs better. In game where you can have 5 ships on your bar you really can have a ship for each job you need to do and well rounded ships get pushed the side in favor of doing one job really well.


Think of it this when you raid in an mmo would you ever want one of your healers to be able to do 75% as good as healing as a normal healer but also be able to do 75% as good of dps as a regular dps? No you want all your members to be super specialized and just do their job as best as possible. This is exactly what's happening in GSF you want your team to each do their job super well, it's even more compounded by the fact that each player can swap roles on death.



Thanks for all the questions guys! I'll be out of town for a few days but go ahead and post your questions and I can get to them when I get back or I'm sure some other players will drop in and help answer them.
DrakolichDrakolích
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MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
01.08.2016 , 04:44 PM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Think of it this when you raid in an mmo would you ever want one of your healers to be able to do 75% as good as healing as a normal healer but also be able to do 75% as good of dps as a regular dps? No you want all your members to be super specialized and just do their job as best as possible. This is exactly what's happening in GSF you want your team to each do their job super well, it's even more compounded by the fact that each player can swap roles on death.
I like that analogy, never really thought about it that way. Kinda like a tank in dps spec or something. Following this logic - it might be fun to play healer that can also dish out some damage, but it's never going to be optimal.

I'll remember that and try to explain it to new GSF folks this way.

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Star Forge / Satele Shan / Darth Malgus


Self-Inflicted / Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
01.08.2016 , 11:41 PM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by Krixarcs View Post
Listen up junior I am an ace and I am better with the t2 gunship than you are with any ship
<baby Reiyn says otherwise, and I can post the screen of just such a match if you really need. (Unmastered quarrel with a handful of upgrades vs your fully mastered t2)

But really, this is a good example of what kind of pilot not to be. When you have to constantly tell people you're an ace and go so far as putting it in your sig all the while being condescending towards random pilots - DON'T be that guy.

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
01.09.2016 , 10:28 AM | #510
About capacitors: both yallia and you said that damage per shot is preferable to overall DPS. That makes sense, but then why not always choose damage capacitor (at least over frequency)?