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(Not sure if in right category) Rage Jugg vs Fury Mara?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
(Not sure if in right category) Rage Jugg vs Fury Mara?

Alkruel's Avatar


Alkruel
07.22.2018 , 01:24 PM | #1
Hello there random person over the internet reading this post
Just curious of your thoughts on rage juggernaut versus fury marauder
It seems the abilities are the exact same , I have heard rumors that rage does more damage than fury though I am not sure on that , It seems rage juggernaut is just a fury marauderer with a second life and heavier armor , Opinions?

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.22.2018 , 01:35 PM | #2
Opinion: whoever told you that is full of crap.

Fury is better in every category except self heals. You have better damage, better DR, a disengage, everything except the self heal. I would further point out that the self heal does not work as well under focus as, unlike merc counterparts, it does not prevent damage. Thus, becoming distinctly less effective with the number of people attacking you.

Play whichever class you like better, but fury mara is better in practically every category.

Eloi_BG's Avatar


Eloi_BG
07.26.2018 , 02:35 PM | #3
What Kendra said but Juggs have reflect. Reflect is fun.

Both have their strengths, but as a general rule mara is in a bit of a better place right now.
Nemio the Acceptable Player

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
08.01.2018 , 12:54 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Opinion: whoever told you that is full of crap.

Fury is better in every category except self heals. You have better damage, better DR, a disengage, everything except the self heal. I would further point out that the self heal does not work as well under focus as, unlike merc counterparts, it does not prevent damage. Thus, becoming distinctly less effective with the number of people attacking you.

Play whichever class you like better, but fury mara is better in practically every category.

Isn't Rage like more bursty in short moments when compared to Fury but Fury, still, overall is better?

I mean, I've seen some sick 50k+ hits from Juggs (been both a victim and the perpetrator of causing such nightmarish hits. ) yet maras don't pull that off.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.03.2018 , 04:36 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
Isn't Rage like more bursty in short moments when compared to Fury but Fury, still, overall is better?

I mean, I've seen some sick 50k+ hits from Juggs (been both a victim and the perpetrator of causing such nightmarish hits. ) yet maras don't pull that off.
The major differences i can think of offhand are:
1. Concentrated slice grants riposte, so maybe slightly more buret there.
2. Reflect: guardians obviously can reflect all single target, direct force, ranged, and tech attacks.

I will check both skill trees when i get to my computer to edit this post.

Any way around it, the two specs are practically identical in purpose, and sentinel has thr better toys for pulling that purpose off in pvp. Double leap, transendence, camo, sent runs literal circles around focus.

Guardian is the least mobile melee class, thus i find vigi is the better guardian spec (i.e. it is my opinion that vigi speaks better to the strength of the guardian class, and is better able to set itself apart as one of few dot specs with enough burst to be feasible in a pvp setting).

VaeVictis's Avatar


VaeVictis
08.04.2018 , 03:58 PM | #6
Rage Juggs farm medals, Fury Maras farm kills.

Fury basically combines the defensive advantages of Vengeance with the burst of Rage, best of both worlds.

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
08.05.2018 , 12:22 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Any way around it, the two specs are practically identical in purpose, and sentinel has thr better toys for pulling that purpose off in pvp. Double leap, transendence, camo, sent runs literal circles around focus.
Honestly, despite the base of the specs being the same, I feel like they play more differently since Rage actually has a significantly harder resource management. On Rage, you screw up one attack, you're forced to use a filler or a rage builder to continue the rotation.

Unlike Rage howver, Fury just needs a spam of 5/6 attacks and it gains the 30 stacks ready to use. Its a bit of a joke how retarded easy it is on marauder. The effort in it is non-existant for ridiculous 'firepower' it gives, both PvP and PvE, which is a bit broken. Honestly, with this and the added Stun Immunity, that was never needed (imo), is what makes the game unfun with it. Often, marauders find themselves to play Fury because the other two specs aren't in par with the utility that this spec gives. Anyway, I'll stop here before it turns into a debate of which spec is better or not.

Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Guardian is the least mobile melee class, thus i find vigi is the better guardian spec (i.e. it is my opinion that vigi speaks better to the strength of the guardian class, and is better able to set itself apart as one of few dot specs with enough burst to be feasible in a pvp setting).
Rage definitely requires much more skill than the Dot counterpart. On Vengeance/Vigi there's no way in hell you can 'spin' out of control, while in Rage, that can happen rather easily, and your dps is compromised. I mentioned this up above. So, yeah, you get the point

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.06.2018 , 12:51 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
Honestly, despite the base of the specs being the same, I feel like they play more differently since Rage actually has a significantly harder resource management. On Rage, you screw up one attack, you're forced to use a filler or a rage builder to continue the rotation.
To me the rotations felt very similar enough. The point of rhat paragraph was that both concentration and focus are single target specs. They work best by sticking to one particular target and killing it quickly, which concentration is better at because of its better toolkit for actually performing that job
Quote:
Unlike Rage howver, Fury just needs a spam of 5/6 attacks and it gains the 30 stacks ready to use. Its a bit of a joke how retarded easy it is on marauder. The effort in it is non-existant for ridiculous 'firepower' it gives, both PvP and PvE, which is a bit broken. Honestly, with this and the added Stun Immunity, that was never needed (imo), is what makes the game unfun with it. Often, marauders find themselves to play Fury because the other two specs aren't in par with the utility that this spec gives. Anyway, I'll stop here before it turns into a debate of which spec is better or not.
The stun immunity is just another reason to run concentration over focus. I won't speak for combat, and as i already mentioned, vigi js one of the very few viable pvp dot specs.
Quote:
Rage definitely requires much more skill than the Dot counterpart. On Vengeance/Vigi there's no way in hell you can 'spin' out of control, while in Rage, that can happen rather easily, and your dps is compromised. I mentioned this up above. So, yeah, you get the point
Why do people insist on calling this skill? Vigi is simply a better spec for the toolkit a guardian has to work with. I can play either dps spec well. I like vigi better because it speaks to the nature of the class. (I'm not pretending my any stretch that vigi is even slighly hard - dot dot dot smash lol - but playing vigi well in pvp does take skill).

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
08.06.2018 , 04:54 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
To me the rotations felt very similar enough. The point of rhat paragraph was that both concentration and focus are single target specs. They work best by sticking to one particular target and killing it quickly, which concentration is better at because of its better toolkit for actually performing that job
Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Idk. I only find myself using this spec when I'm really bored out of the other two, on marauder(which is really hard to happen). I still do decent damage, PvE or PvP wise.


Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
The stun immunity is just another reason to run concentration over focus. I won't speak for combat, and as i already mentioned, vigi js one of the very few viable pvp dot specs.
Yeah, but what I mean is like, its rather spammable (I find 30s CD on this rather short) and, well, the fact you can do in melee range, is a bit broken, imo. Or maybe its the other specs that need a buff, or at least Carnage/Combat(I think its Combat. Honestly, I forgot and was lazy to look up while writing this ) does deserve a buff.
On Vigi/Veng, you need to get distance and leap to get it, which is a bit 'against' the nature of a melee class. You mostly want to stay 100% ToT, unless the conditions for that situation happen, like the target gains distance from you, swapped target or when you mad dash, and stuff like that.


Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Why do people insist on calling this skill? Vigi is simply a better spec for the toolkit a guardian has to work with. I can play either dps spec well. I like vigi better because it speaks to the nature of the class. (I'm not pretending my any stretch that vigi is even slighly hard - dot dot dot smash lol - but playing vigi well in pvp does take skill).
I still think its skill. Vigi/Veng is really simplistic when compared to Rage/Focus.
Nevertheless, the skill on Jugg, honestly, is how to survive, most of the time, and not how to do dps with it.

Ld-Siris's Avatar


Ld-Siris
08.06.2018 , 08:41 PM | #10
There are a couple things you guys have gotten wrong. The main thing is you cannot compare a Rage Jugg to a Fury mara.

5.0 saw an identity change to Carnage and Fury. They switch the roles. Though they didn't specifically call this out, you can clearly see the change in their post "How Class Balance Happens" during the 5.3 changes. I will post a snippet below. Basically Carnage is now the burst spec and Fury is the Hybrid (Quasi) spec now. Rage should have higher burst but lower overall DPS while Fury should have slightly lower burst but overall greater sustain DPS. This is why since 5.0 Carnage was heavily nerfed and why Fury was buffed.

Part of these changes not only saw to lower the sustain DPS of carnage but also nerf its resource management. The inverse is true for fury. They need to boost the sustainability of fury while slightly lowering its burst. Ultimately Carnage is the old Fury and Fury is the new Carnage.

If you want to compare burst, the fair comparison is between the Rage Jugg and the Carnage Marauder.

If you want to just compare the differences between Rage and Fury you must keep the above in mind. Though their rotations and play style is very similar, their functions are completely different.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco
Damage Groupings for Damage Dealing Disciplines
Melee Sustained Damage Dealers (up to +5% of target DPS)
  • Annihilation Marauder / Watchman Sentinel
  • Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow
  • Lethality Operative / Ruffian Scoundrel
  • Pyrotech Powertech / Plasmatech Vanguard
  • Vengeance Juggernaut / Vigilance Guardian
Melee Quasi-Burst Damage Dealer (up to +2.5% of target DPS)
  • Fury Marauder / Concentration Sentinel
Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)
  • Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard
  • Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel
  • Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel
  • Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
  • Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger
  • Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando
  • Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage
  • Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian
Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS)
  • Virulence Sniper / Dirty Fighting Gunslinger
Ranged Burst Damage Dealers (down to -5% of target DPS)
  • Arsenal Mercenary / Gunnery Command
  • Lightning Sorcerer / Telekinetics Sage
  • Marksmanship Sniper / Sharpshooter Gunslinger
BTW The classes in each list are alphabetical and not by their specific damage. Also the damage % is just a for example not their actual targets.