Spotted another thread that said if you don't take Assault Plastique as Vanguard Assault spec you're not dps. Is this ability even worth it? Shares a cooldown with sticky grenade and doesn't seem to do that much more damage. Am I missing something? If I take this abiltiy I would take the point out of Brutal Impact for -3% damage on HIB.

 

Here's the spec I'm using:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801fhbbdGhrcZhMZMs.1

 

I've seen some threads on this topic but they're mostly older threads. I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on dps.

The difference is that Assault Plastique (despite appearances) is a single target ability. It gives you a higher damage option for when you don't want to break CC or when you're dpsing a lone target.

 

Whether or not that's worth a talent point to you is up for debate.

It's another option if you're forced to dps from further than 10m. It doesn't bypass armour the way our elemental attacks do. If I'm closer I'd rather spend the cells on something that procs IA.

 

For me it's not worth speccing.

Edited June 28, 2012 by _gideon

It is too valueable a skill in PVP not to have it. It creates a large single target burst window when combined with damage from HIB+IP+HIB. It completely replaces sticky grenade in PVP and has a +30% crit damage increase from lower talents in assault. I've had it crit for over 4.5k in 1.3 (904 tech damage bonus, with 78% surge). My PVP assault spec is in my sig feel free to compare and contrast.

 

However, if you're building a PVE-only spec then 8/8/25 or other non-plastique variation will work out just fine.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Hethroin

I used to run a PvP focused dps build in assault without AP (spec). However, I have recently added it (spec) and would say it is worth it. Vanguard assault shines in single target focusing with heavy stockstrikes, HiBs, and this additional little beauty. This is useful for focus targeting in both PvE and PvP, since the hardest battles in PvE are always against one target. It crits frequently and hits often (is a tech attack as opposed to HiB, which is ranged).

 

Especially with your build only being one point off from it, I think it's a waste not to put the point there and remove one from Intimidation, for example. If you were to run with a 8/6/27 type of build, then I would agree it's harder to justify reallocating points.

I guess I should specify this is for PVE and I'm looking to maximise dps for boss fights.

For PvP, you absolutely need it.

 

For PvE, it's strong but not essential. It beats Sticky Grenade by a much wider margin than the tooltips indicate. It has a higher base damage, and it gets a larger benefit from power than Sticky Grenade does. This means that the more you gear up, the better it will be in comparison to Sticky Grenade.

 

That being said, you can make a pretty strong case either way. It gives you a nice mobile, ranged option for times when you can't be in melee range and have to move around. I believe that skipping it for passive boosts low in Tactics and Shield will probably give you slightly more DPS, but I doubt we're talking about a change of more than 3%. It's not going to be making any huge differences either way.

Okay, thanks for all the replies. It seems like the consensus is that for PVE AP isn't necessary at all. Skodde has a pretty good explanation in this thread as to why it doesn't make a good part of an assault vanguard rotation:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4756004#post4756004

 

Basiclly, as HIB is your main nuke, AP doesn't help you proc anything that either increases your HIB damage or help with ammo management. Essential for PVP, can see a use for it during burst phases in PVE, but otherwise not really wanted.

I disagree, I wouldn't run an Assault spec without AP. It's technically spike DPS but you could also think of it as a one-tick bleed... what i mean by this is that you toss it, while it is ticking off you can pump a few other shots into the target, and then WHOOMP man down. I can't imagine playing a spec heavy on the right without it.

 

Plus it's just great fun to listen to the wind-up sound, knowing something baaad is about to happen, lol.

sigh

 

7/3/31 if you're geared, 4/6/31 if you're a fresh level 50, either way, full assault is best assault for PvE, simply because AP is the strongest filler WHILE IONIC ACCELERATOR IS ON COOLDOWN, i.e.: you only use AP within a 2 global cooldown period after your free HiB has been procced (tehnically it's 3 globals, but the 3rd is used on an attack that can proc HiB again).

sigh

 

7/3/31 if you're geared, 4/6/31 if you're a fresh level 50, either way, full assault is best assault for PvE, simply because AP is the strongest filler WHILE IONIC ACCELERATOR IS ON COOLDOWN, i.e.: you only use AP within a 2 global cooldown period after your free HiB has been procced (tehnically it's 3 globals, but the 3rd is used on an attack that can proc HiB again).

 

Pick up AP instead of +3% tech crit and 6% aim boost? No.

 

I urge you to run 10 5 minute sessions with ops training dummy in both specs and look at the results. While not drastically different, AP-less spec provides 50-70 dps boost at the very minimum. In raids, it is most likely more.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Skodde
Typo - 2 instead of 6

It's a debate that can't be solved atm due to lack of theorycrafting. There's pros and cons to both builds and due to the heavy RNG factor of Assault it's very damned difficult to eye ball which is better. I ran as many parses as I had time and with full assault, 5 parses, got pretty steady 1.5k dps while with just 1 parse in 8/5/28 i got 1.62k.

 

HOWEVER:

the one parse I did in non-AP build had a grotesque luck in HiB procs which more then made up for the dps difference (non-AP lasted 4 mins and HiB did a total of 105k dmg while the last AP test lasted 5 mins and HiB did a total of 92k).

 

I didn't have time to run more parses but... RNG man, like I said, it is very difficult to eye ball what spec is better. Imo it comes down to:

 

AP BUILD

- AP, which is the strongest ability we have bar HiB. If used within the cooldown period of Ionic Accelerator it will not interfere with HiB procs and it WILL do more damage then Ion Pulse/Stockstrike. My AP tooltip says it deals 2.4-2.6k damage, -30% (boss armor, roughly) that means about 1.8k-2k, with a 2x Crit multiplier, that's the most damage per global we can do apart from HiB. Most of my AP parses had AP do roughly 30k damage or roughly 7-8% of my total damage done.

-Also of note is the fact that AP is 30m range, a godsend in certain fights in EC where some movement is required

-Adrenaline Fueled (reduces cd of Reverse Power Cell by 6 / crit every 1.5 sec); it looks like a meh talent to say the least but what I found it to do is allow me to use every second Incendiary Round for free which saves up a lot of globals spent on hammershotting in the non-AP build

 

VS

 

NON-AP BUILD

-3% Aim boost, always good to have

-6% Elemental crit boost, the bulk of our damage

 

Been trying to find some more theorycrafting sites but I've had no luck so far wish i was smarter lol

If you are serious about PVP, you will take AP. In PVE, getting 9% more aim is more important.

The degree of effectiveness of an Assault spike build is not defined by its DPS. Take AP in PvP. Edited July 3, 2012 by olemanbourbon

Worth it. Both in PVP and PVE.

I left out AP to get my 9% aim boost, which increases crit and power. I do better than most classes in warzones hitting 700k+ on an average game. It just depends on how you play tbh, it's down to personal preference

I left out AP to get my 9% aim boost, which increases crit and power. I do better than most classes in warzones hitting 700k+ on an average game. It just depends on how you play tbh, it's down to personal preference

 

You boosted your DPS but destroyed your burst.

I left out AP to get my 9% aim boost, which increases crit and power. I do better than most classes in warzones hitting 700k+ on an average game. It just depends on how you play tbh, it's down to personal preference

 

The problem with this statement is that you end up doing more damage the longer your opponents live, so doing more damage in warzones is an inaccurate measure of effectiveness. Spending 20 seconds to kill a guy you could have killed in 10 seconds (with AP burst), results in a higher damage total due to the 10 extra seconds of heals he received while you were killing him.

With the recent Nerfs to AP on the PTS and assuming they roll this out as part of 2.0..

 

•Assault Plastique has been redesigned. The Trooper now throws a moldable plastic explosive that sticks to the target and detonates after several seconds, exploding for kinetic damage and burning the target for elemental damage over 12 seconds. Standard and weak enemies enter a state of panic when the explosive attaches and are knocked down when it explodes.

 

...don't spec into it and learn to play without it. You can still do high DPS as a Vanguard without AP by working to proc HIB. Sticky Nade is not bad and it has a 30m range as well so it's a good opener to a fight while you make your way into melee range for HIB, IP and SS.

 

It really does suck that they are making Assault VG a 2 or 3 button class.

 

Prior to the Nerfs that BW/EA have implemented, my rotation used to be IR/AP/HIB/IP/SS/HIB, with a few hammer shots to refresh ammo, post the gutting of this class, it's now only IP/HIB/SS. I can play this class half asleep...what a joke.