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Harm in 12xXP


Vasflam's Avatar


Vasflam
09.28.2015 , 06:09 AM | #1
For a typical Subscriber, 12xXP causes a great deal of harm to any and all meaningful group&social content between 1 and 55.
For typical player, it can remove other players from the picture almost entirely. Average player spends most of his 1-55 by driving from one instance to another while occasionally listening to Jennifer Hale say nice things.

GSF, Flashpoints, Planetary Heroics, Warzones.. all these activities have utterly irrelevant reward from doing them, in comparison to 12xXp. Incentive to get involved in these activities is largely gone for many. Besdies the figurative carrot not being there, time to chase it is also missing: Weekend with spacebar is all it takes to get from 1 to 55 now. If you mostly just level one character after another via 12xXP, it is very hard to end up involved in any of the major sub- communities within the game. There just isn't enough in-game time for that. Since leveling is the major beef for huge portion of players..well you figure out just how harmful this is to every social aspect of the game. It is an excellent example of a well loved feature that people embrace and like without realizing or caring what it does to community they, too, belong to.

12xXP makes an experience that tears layer after layer of content off players road maps entirely. It leaves you with just a pretty dialogue wheel to spin. It shoehorns people in fashion that makes their overall experience entirely story focused, quite isolated and, frankly, reasonably...dumb.

It is extremely ironic how it is Premium and F2P crowd who end up with much more rich, much more varied experience. For them, as collective, levels 1-55 don't just fly by in a single weekend. For them, despite still having far more modest XP reward, GSF, WZs, FPs&etc aren't destined to appear as ridiculously unrewarding waste of time in comparison to 1200% reward of doing storyline. (Yeah. Think about it. One activity in this game gives reward that is one thousand and two hundred percent greater than any other activity. ) No matter how hard you wanna disagree with my claims/observations, I think you have to admit Premium players, as collective, have much easier time ending up with much more varied leveling experience. Game doesn't actively tempt them into utter monotone of one single, often isolated, activity like it does to Subscribers. It takes very little spin to claim premium people actually have much more feature rich game, heh. They are the ones still keeping FP queus, GSF matches, Warzones, etc alive.


....
PLS READ BELOW TOO!

Couple of preemptive remarks&counterpoints usually played when somebody dares to suggest 12xXP isn't coolest thing since sliced bread:

Q:But I love 12xXP? I am here for the story and it enabled me to enjoy the story! So 12xXP is great wth??
A: Cause and effect usually differ. It makes perfect sense why BW brought 12xXP. It makes perfect sense why people like it. I'm not personally a fan of it..but neither am I saying it should be moved. It's just that there is absolutely no reason why it should be 1200% more rewarding, in terms of XP given, than rest of the game.

Q: Aha! But you can buy an item that disables it! You, Vasflam, don't have to use 12xXp if you don't like! So it looks like your point is moot!
A: It isn't important how quickly or slowly or through which activity I, or any one single player gets his xp. I certainly personally don't care of MY xp. It's just that community is made of collective pile of people. and HUGE portion of this pile will never want to nerf their experience.

ForceWelder's Avatar


ForceWelder
09.28.2015 , 06:18 AM | #2
To the OP ...

Yes it does. 12 XP does harm group content while leveling.

But to be honest, some servers have such low population levels, I think group content while leveling is dead on them anyway. 12 XP or no 12 XP. Sure there are some servers with very dynamic and very much alive population levels but this is hardly the case of servers like PoT5.

The point I think was to ramp up population numbers prior to the expansion coming out. I don't think having a simple subscriber specialty item give away was considered to be enough of a draw, and since the expansion is only for subscribers only, they wanted to do something extra to entice more subscribers in.

They also wanted to ensure that those subscribers would be ready to do the expansion content even if they are brand new to the game. 12 XP fit the bill for both. And I suspect that the devs probably view it overall as a success but we probably won't ever know how many subscribers joined between the time the expansion was announced and 12 XP kicked in to the time when the expansion was released.

You have to consider that this expansion is a new business model for them. No game to buy, just subscribe. And stay subscribed until all of the content is released.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
09.28.2015 , 06:20 AM | #3
Being in a guild, I can say, in my experience, people still want to do the FPs as they level, if they can. They can still get gear that lasts awhile instead of spending comms to update their gear, not to mention they can grab some custom gear they may like for the looks.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
09.28.2015 , 06:21 AM | #4
harm? there really isn't any real harm. most of those activities you mention, people tend to skip or ignore naturally even without 12xp.

fp, and wz are still a thing and i still see people do heroics. the only one that may be suffering is gsf, that is like a individual preference to like or dislike


3/10 op

Vasflam's Avatar


Vasflam
09.28.2015 , 06:24 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by ForceWelder View Post
To the OP ...

Yes it does. 12 XP does harm group content while leveling.

But to be honest, some servers have such low population levels, I think group content while leveling is dead on them anyway. 12 XP or no 12 XP. Sure there are some servers with very dynamic and very much alive population levels but this is hardly the case of servers like PoT5.

The point I think was to ramp up population numbers prior to the expansion coming out. I don't think having a simple subscriber specialty item give away was considered to be enough of a draw, and since the expansion is only for subscribers only, they wanted to do something extra to entice more subscribers in.

They also wanted to ensure that those subscribers would be ready to do the expansion content even if they are brand new to the game. 12 XP fit the bill for both. And I suspect that the devs probably view it overall as a success but we probably won't ever know how many subscribers joined between the time the expansion was announced and 12 XP kicked in to the time when the expansion was released.

You have to consider that this expansion is a new business model for them. No game to buy, just subscribe. And stay subscribed until all of the content is released.


Yeah I agree on much of this, reasons behind them wanting to do this are there. It made sense to buff class story XP so hard you can level by doing just that. People certainly loved the crap out of it. What doesn't make sense and is utterly damaging to depth of the game and flavor of it's community is how every single other activity was left to rot., in terms of XP rewarded.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
09.28.2015 , 06:25 AM | #6
There is no harm with this, if a player wants to disable the X12 it is possible with a White Acute Module.

Vasflam's Avatar


Vasflam
09.28.2015 , 06:39 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
There is no harm with this, if a player wants to disable the X12 it is possible with a White Acute Module.
Did you read the part of my post that started with me saying " please read below too" in caps?

Rafaman's Avatar


Rafaman
09.28.2015 , 07:28 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Vasflam View Post
Did you read the part of my post that started with me saying " please read below too" in caps?
I think you are missing the point. Collectively there was a huge portion of players that weren't running group content with out 12xp. The game was losing subs because these players, once they got beyond the first few planets, left the game. With 12xp these players hang around and even work up alts. But they would not be playing if the old Vanilla grind was all they had to look forward too because, as you know, they don't generally group.

And now, a new phenomenon is occurring. Many "solo" players are trying out group content after cap. They are doing it for two reasons. One, they are coming back for the xpac and are finding it easy to do as gear and group finder are practically serving up this content with little or no effort required on their part. Tacticals, SM Ops are facerolls since they are over leveled, basic comms drop like candy and gives them decent gear etc. And two, because many now feel comfortable enough to do the content having found friends or guilds ingame that run them through. At end game, right now, many of these solo artist aren't great group players but they are good enough to learn. And with a little success they catch the end game bug and realize that group content is a great experience and want to do more.

How can make such assertions? It is happening in my guild right now. We have an influx of new guildies that never ran EV or KP and are now motivated to clear them. Sure, they are facerolls at 60, but this is leading them right into newer and more difficult content. The bolster also helps them a great deal in higher level SM Ops so that gear isn't a gate for them. And before we knew what was happening, these previously solo players are starving for Ops in my guild. Where we were raiding once a week two months ago, we raid almost every night now and have multiple standing raid groups. And yes, 12xp got them there.

So, 12xp isn't a great thing as many players don't know their class at cap. But once they are there with a little push and desire on their part, they learn what they need too. There is more good than harm from 12xp.

thewitchdoctor's Avatar


thewitchdoctor
09.28.2015 , 07:43 AM | #9
I don't know. I'm on Shadowlands and my last two toons have been my Sentinel (DPS obviously) and now my Scoundrel (leveling as a Healer). I've gotten FP pops - on both - as I have leveled. So, I think people are still doing them. I haven't bothered with a planetary Heroic tho since ... the first time I did Makeb ... when it launched. But that's just me.
Good. Bad. I'm the twi'lek with the saber.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
09.28.2015 , 07:54 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Rafaman View Post
There is more good than harm from 12xp.
I agree, it makes the game alive again