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Please tell me Madness gets better with gear. (PVP-damage)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Please tell me Madness gets better with gear. (PVP-damage)

-Solace-'s Avatar


-Solace-
07.31.2017 , 01:44 PM | #1
I just re-subbed like 3 days ago. Been about a year + since I played. My main was an Arsenal Merc in pvp with Madness being a close second. It's funny that at that time I loved Merc dps but they had crap DCD's, look at em now!!! Madness was also pretty strong then as well. My gear obviously is not that good, still working on just getting 230. Is there a significant damage increase when at 248? I feel like after I get my Creeping Terror/Aff, Deathfield, and a proc'd Demolish my dot's don't do jack. By that time, whoever it is, realizes I'm hitting them and they proceed to kick my face in as I have to stand there and hard cast Force Leech or Force Lightning. I've been getting a lot better at kiting but as soon as someone gets to me, I take massive amounts of damage. Would love to see a race between arsenal and madness, facing each other and just free casting and see who wins. Pretty sure the answer is overly obvious there. So please, you experienced, geared madness vets....... does it get better?
Need a Sig.

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
07.31.2017 , 02:08 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by -Solace- View Post
I just re-subbed like 3 days ago. Been about a year + since I played. My main was an Arsenal Merc in pvp with Madness being a close second. It's funny that at that time I loved Merc dps but they had crap DCD's, look at em now!!! Madness was also pretty strong then as well. My gear obviously is not that good, still working on just getting 230. Is there a significant damage increase when at 248? I feel like after I get my Creeping Terror/Aff, Deathfield, and a proc'd Demolish my dot's don't do jack. By that time, whoever it is, realizes I'm hitting them and they proceed to kick my face in as I have to stand there and hard cast Force Leech or Force Lightning. I've been getting a lot better at kiting but as soon as someone gets to me, I take massive amounts of damage. Would love to see a race between arsenal and madness, facing each other and just free casting and see who wins. Pretty sure the answer is overly obvious there. So please, you experienced, geared madness vets....... does it get better?
Yes with 248 gear and the right stat allocation (1800 crit, 1000alac rest power/mastery) it is OK but nothing special unlike in patch 4. You can fluff your way to top of regs scoreboard if you are left unchecked but your single target pressure is very mediocre if not just plain "bad". Also DcDs are such that if you get focused by one competent dps player like Mara and you spend half time running/healing and half time throwing a dot or two. Two dps on you and you can forget about doing anything productive. Basically in 4.0 you had pressure damage, now you have fluff damage. Damage was never the issue on Madness, it's self healing was a bit overtuned. Now you don't have either really.

-Solace-'s Avatar


-Solace-
07.31.2017 , 02:10 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by ottffsse View Post
Yes with 248 gear and the right stat allocation (1800 crit, 1000alac rest power/mastery) it is OK but nothing special unlike in patch 4. You can fluff your way to top of regs scoreboard if you are left unchecked but your single target pressure is very mediocre if not just plain "bad". Also DcDs are such that if you get focused by one competent dps player like Mara and you spend half time running/healing and half time throwing a dot or two. Two dps on you and you can forget about doing anything productive. Basically in 4.0 you had pressure damage, now you have fluff damage. Damage was never the issue on Madness, it's self healing was a bit overtuned. Now you don't have either really.
Thanks What a bummer.
Need a Sig.

Kuvox's Avatar


Kuvox
07.31.2017 , 07:51 PM | #4
Like you, I returned to the game in June, but after a 3+ year break. I was surprised to see what had happened to this class. Bioware has most definitely abandoned its original "glass cannon" design for this class. It's now very much a DPS support role with only Lightning having any burst, and even that's kind of meh.

I feel I make more of a meaningful contribution on my other DPS classes to winning than on my DPS Sorc and Sage. I can often bring someone to 1/2 to 3/5 of their total health on my Scrapper Scoundrel in 3, sometimes 2, GCDs, making it that much more difficult for my opponent to respond and/or putting pressure on healers to have to use their interruptible big heals. On my Sorc and Sage I can certainly put out high numbers, and do, but I rarely feel I can change the course of a match on my Sorc that I can on my other DPS classes, even if the numbers are comparable.
Kuvox | Rakit | Ethelmerman - The Ebon Hawk & The Harbinger

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
07.31.2017 , 10:17 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kuvox View Post
Like you, I returned to the game in June, but after a 3+ year break. I was surprised to see what had happened to this class. Bioware has most definitely abandoned its original "glass cannon" design for this class. It's now very much a DPS support role with only Lightning having any burst, and even that's kind of meh.

I feel I make more of a meaningful contribution on my other DPS classes to winning than on my DPS Sorc and Sage. I can often bring someone to 1/2 to 3/5 of their total health on my Scrapper Scoundrel in 3, sometimes 2, GCDs, making it that much more difficult for my opponent to respond and/or putting pressure on healers to have to use their interruptible big heals. On my Sorc and Sage I can certainly put out high numbers, and do, but I rarely feel I can change the course of a match on my Sorc that I can on my other DPS classes, even if the numbers are comparable.
If RNG smiles upon you and you get a bunch of crits and secondary hit procs in a short ammount of time, lightning still has pretty fearsome burst.

Madness is pretty survivable, and while its never as satisfying to dot someone to death, its efficient in what it does. A good madness sorc can keep single and group pressure dps if he's doing it right, and left mostly alone.

Someone said they were forced to "Stand still" using force leech, force mobility is a must, and some utilities are key to being able to somewhat take some focus without losing a lot of dps.

In short, both work well, but if you expect something like sniper's facetanking and big hit, you won't get them.

However planned right a sorc will win any war of attrition with any class, safe perhaps a good operative. Actually a somewhat decent operative will most likely kill a great sorc 1vs1 in most cases, if he plays his self-heal right, and counter the sorc's escape correctly.

Might take a while tough.
Verfallen (Assassin) | Azorek (Sorcerer)
Veroth (Marauder) Altamira (Merc) Aing (Sniper)

Verfalled (sage) | Tiemrys (Shadow)Verfaing (Sentinel)Evenroth (Commando)
Fear The ShadowHumper Legacy! May contain sarcasm

Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
08.01.2017 , 07:00 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by verfallen View Post
However planned right a sorc will win any war of attrition with any class, safe perhaps a good operative. Actually a somewhat decent operative will most likely kill a great sorc 1vs1 in most cases, if he plays his self-heal right, and counter the sorc's escape correctly.

Might take a while tough.
An average operative should always beat sorcs. Decent mercs should always beat sorcs. Rage jugs, fury marauders, and deception sins should generally beat sorcs unless the sorc has a ton of LOS. A lot of it boils down to LoS...but if your opponent is a livelord, you won't have the long-term resources (e.g. you will run out of force and have to consume).
Hoppin, The Cutest Mercenary <Death Smile>
Hoppinator (Merc), Hoppin (Sorc), Hopposites (Mara),
Hoptimal (Sin), Hopalicious (Jugg), Hopperative (Operative), Hoptimize (PT)

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
08.01.2017 , 09:56 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoppinswtor View Post
An average operative should always beat sorcs. Decent mercs should always beat sorcs. Rage jugs, fury marauders, and deception sins should generally beat sorcs unless the sorc has a ton of LOS. A lot of it boils down to LoS...but if your opponent is a livelord, you won't have the long-term resources (e.g. you will run out of force and have to consume).
Nah resources not the problem anymore at least not on Madness. But your dps and DcDs are weak comparitavely to those classes so they just get more bang per buck on each global cooldown then you.

Thaladan's Avatar


Thaladan
08.01.2017 , 10:09 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by ottffsse View Post
Nah resources not the problem anymore at least not on Madness. But your dps and DcDs are weak comparitavely to those classes so they just get more bang per buck on each global cooldown then you.
clearly dont forget that the real buff in 5.3 was our force management increased when casting force lightning.

a buff apperead quasi a day before update and surely due to our feedback and legitime "whine".

legend of hyperspace

-Solace-'s Avatar


-Solace-
08.02.2017 , 09:27 AM | #9
Still struggling and working on getting gear. I miss the old days with the pvp gear vendor where I could get a toon maxed out in pvp gear/aug's in a week, even less if you hit it hard enough. This grind though..... I still don't see how it's possible to 1v1 a merc or sniper as a madness sorc unless they have absolutely 0 DCD's. I actually enjoy being outplayed/outplaying others but there seems to be zero counterplay especially to these 2 classes. Anyone have any tips?
Need a Sig.

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
08.02.2017 , 09:48 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by -Solace- View Post
Still struggling and working on getting gear. I miss the old days with the pvp gear vendor where I could get a toon maxed out in pvp gear/aug's in a week, even less if you hit it hard enough. This grind though..... I still don't see how it's possible to 1v1 a merc or sniper as a madness sorc unless they have absolutely 0 DCD's. I actually enjoy being outplayed/outplaying others but there seems to be zero counterplay especially to these 2 classes. Anyone have any tips?
No those 2 classes are overtuned. Forget about taking on a sniper unless you have assistance, sniper is bad or pre-occupied with something else. Against Merc it is possible I guess now as their damage is not quite as it was but their Dcds are better still, but you can't make mistakes and they probably have to make some mistakes. Get better gear that's important now. Dot the Merc, keep some self healing and force armour up (play defensively), save your root breaker for E-net if your other Dcds are used up (suppression/warzone adrenal). Interrupt tracers. Try to line up a combo of 3 hard hitting attacks in sequence: Leech, Death Field+Demolish or Lightning Strike to make them pause a second at the incoming damage. If Merc shields himself with the reflective **** hard stun and only use Aoes. Then Merc probably uses Adrenal Surge if you get that far and heals up completely and you loose. Or have to start all over again. LoS is helpful I guess so can hide from tracers etc, but that way you just maybe stay alive while not really pressuring the merc, which is bad too. Oh yeah and if merc has a brain and starts using off-healing abilities and not just the reflective shield you can forget about it in a battle of attrition.