well..... seems this has scalated into a pro and anti democracy thread dident had that on mind when started the entire topic.....

I'm tempted to give up the debate however as my opponent doesn't seem to know what he is talking about. Palpatine is not from Alderaan and Aliens are not simpletons.

The bottom line is this OP:

Jedi=good

Sith=evil

Baran Do Sages=awesome

The bottom line is this OP:

 

Jedi=good

Sith=evil

Baran Do Sages=awesome

 

Ahem, well this is how I see it:

Jedi = wrong

Sith = wrong

Je'daii = right

Kreia = awesome

Warning: going a bitt off-topic for a second wanted to say that i made a collection of "some of the best ideas" about making this game "better" for "most of the community"

if anybody have the time give it a look:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=581327

if u agree with those threads, leave a /signed or something.. ty

It doesn't matter if they are 'disturbed' or not, they are clearly not happy under Imperial rule. So the Empire has failed to provide a good system of government. And everything I have said about them is correct. Glad we can clear that one up.

 

Palpatine was from Naboo, not Alderaan. The destruction of Alderaan was for the sole purpose of pressuring Princess Leia into giving up the location of the Death Star. It was unnecessary, there were countless other ways to get her to talk, and countless more ways to find the rebel base. (They tracked the Falcon in the end) By they were bloated on power, corrupted by it. And there corruption cost billions of innocent lives wasted for no reason. And if you support that and wouldn't mind that happening to your family, well, I pity you. (I suppose you supported the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't you?)

 

Aliens are simpletons eh? What about Admiral Thrawn, the greatest military leader and tactician the galaxy has ever scene. A Chiss, non-Human. And second best? Admiral Ackbar, who defeated Death Squadron, and led the Rebellion to victory (hurrah!). A Mon Calamarian, non-human. Jabba the Hutt, leader of the one of the most influential crime syndicates in the galaxy. A Hutt, non-human. Prince Xizor, leader of the Black Sun which at the height was the second most powerful organisation in the galaxy, second only to the Emperor. Darth Plagueis, a Sith Lord, masterminded 50% of the final stages of the Grand Plan and apprenticed Darth Sidious, who would never have destroyed the Republic without him. A Muun, non-human. General Grievous, another brilliant tactician. A Kaleesh, non-human. Odan-Urr, founder of the Jedi Library, the most comprehensive database on everything in the galaxy. A Draethos, non human. The Colicoids, creators of some of the most advanced droids in the galaxy, non-human. Geonosians, creators of the Death Star, non-human. Bothans, creators of the Bothan Spynet, the most superior intelligence database in the galaxy (better than the Human run Imperial Intelligence), non-human. The Rakata, creators of the Infinite Empire and incredible technologies still not fully understood or equaled to this day, non-human. And the Gree, just the same, non-human. I could go on. So in what universe are aliens, simpletons? You are so wrong its embarrassing. The xenophobia of the Galactic Empire is just plain idiotic and inefficient, so much wasted potential. Just like they wasted potential on military power. The Galactic Empire is just one big waste of time. By the time it dissolved it had achieved nothing but mayhem, misery and chaos. What an epic fail.

 

And then the Sith Empire, which admittedly makes up for some of the defficiencies of the Galactic Empire as its people actually like them. And yes they are not oppressed, but they are repressed. Different words, different meanings. The people are 'happy', but their minds remain inactive. They don't think independently and so will never progress, great minds can't flourish, only in the form of military. Only the Sith had freedom of thought and they cause more trouble than their worth. After the death of the Emperor, the Sith Empire will collapse. As soon as the Dark Council gets solid proof that the Emperor is dead, they will rush to fill the vacuum. Fighting against one another, as a result the Empire will be without a government as they are too busy infighting. Councillors will declare there own Kingdoms much like what happened in the Sith Civil War when Malak and Revan where killed. The Empire will splinter and destroy itself, or be destroyed by the Republic. Don't believe me? Its already happening. With the Emperor speculated dead other Sith are attempting to claim the mantle e.g. Darth Baras, Darth Malgus. And as the Empire puts down constant rebellion and splinter groups, the Republic is laying into them and tearing them apart.

 

But on the grand scale of things, we just have to look at whose still around. The Republic is, the Galactic Empire and the Sith Empire are not.

Naboo, isnt that place full of those aquatic simpletons ? ehh I must admit, he should destroyed that planet instead of Alderaan. but anyway it served a right purpose and it was a test shot, it is justified, good as a threat and a good testing ground for a kaboom. of course that are support bombing of those two, it saved many japanese lives, otherwise there would be bloodshed on the streets of Japanese mainland and japanese wouldnt back, that is in their culture, they would probably kill many americans and australians in the process while there would be also many casualties on their side. nuclear pew pew was technically a right choice and a good opportunity for combat testing.

yes, long list of simpletons with weird faces, the only one I accept are Rakata and Chiss are humans, just blue, offspring of humans anyway as few other races so they are much or less accepted - but for the sake of the Empire they should be assimilated into human races or close to it.

of course they are independant, they have privileges just like any citizen of republic. and repressed of course, repression is a totally fine way for plewing scum. their minds flourish much better than in satgnant democracy, when they see someone that is inferior to them then they call them that, dont use words like "different" just to make it easy. they do researches, they make art, they waste all the time in the world for what they want to do.

free and happy. of course Sith Lords have more privileges but after all they are special snowflakes with shiny powers, they deserve it - people are not equal and tthat is a natural state of things.

no, I dont think so, after Emperor's death ( altho I think he will never die, just move into another plane after his Empire gonna be destroyed, smacked and whatever else by those hippies ) probably Wrath would wipe every one council member if they were to start rebellion and I guess his power iis on the similar level as true body of Vitiate and he is currently immortal so hes next to throne or maybe some real hidden child of Emperor, his flesh and blood. I think that four of the current councilors would fully cooperate together to prevent infighting, after all they are not a rabble, they are top elite so they would keep it straight. and even if there was to be a fight then the strongest would become Emperor if not Wrath.

Baras was simply power hungry and Malgus, he has different views than a council, just two Siths that are easily put down, not much of a threat. also even if whole council would battle themselves then their ministries would still operate.

Lucas and authors of EU could pass with their silly notion of victorious Republic but now when Bioware is doing things and have players on both sides, they gonna try at least rationally steer future of the Empire unless they will be forced into good vs evil, republic yaaaay! thats the whole point and problem of star wars, naive white knightish perspective wins against rationality and progress/success - well, people wish about such things so they get it

and how many people try to control republic, bomb them from inside, decimate and whatever else? probably countless

Naboo, isnt that place full of those aquatic simpletons ? ehh I must admit, he should destroyed that planet instead of Alderaan. but anyway it served a right purpose and it was a test shot, it is justified, good as a threat and a good testing ground for a kaboom. of course that are support bombing of those two, it saved many japanese lives, otherwise there would be bloodshed on the streets of Japanese mainland and japanese wouldnt back, that is in their culture, they would probably kill many americans and australians in the process while there would be also many casualties on their side. nuclear pew pew was technically a right choice and a good opportunity for combat testing.

 

yes, long list of simpletons with weird faces, the only one I accept are Rakata and Chiss are humans, just blue, offspring of humans anyway as few other races so they are much or less accepted - but for the sake of the Empire they should be assimilated into human races or close to it.

 

of course they are independant, they have privileges just like any citizen of republic. and repressed of course, repression is a totally fine way for plewing scum. their minds flourish much better than in satgnant democracy, when they see someone that is inferior to them then they call them that, dont use words like "different" just to make it easy. they do researches, they make art, they waste all the time in the world for what they want to do.

free and happy. of course Sith Lords have more privileges but after all they are special snowflakes with shiny powers, they deserve it - people are not equal and tthat is a natural state of things.

 

no, I dont think so, after Emperor's death ( altho I think he will never die, just move into another plane after his Empire gonna be destroyed, smacked and whatever else by those hippies ) probably Wrath would wipe every one council member if they were to start rebellion and I guess his power iis on the similar level as true body of Vitiate and he is currently immortal so hes next to throne or maybe some real hidden child of Emperor, his flesh and blood. I think that four of the current councilors would fully cooperate together to prevent infighting, after all they are not a rabble, they are top elite so they would keep it straight. and even if there was to be a fight then the strongest would become Emperor if not Wrath.

 

Baras was simply power hungry and Malgus, he has different views than a council, just two Siths that are easily put down, not much of a threat. also even if whole council would battle themselves then their ministries would still operate.

 

Lucas and authors of EU could pass with their silly notion of victorious Republic but now when Bioware is doing things and have players on both sides, they gonna try at least rationally steer future of the Empire unless they will be forced into good vs evil, republic yaaaay! thats the whole point and problem of star wars, naive white knightish perspective wins against rationality and progress/success - well, people wish about such things so they get it

 

and how many people try to control republic, bomb them from inside, decimate and whatever else? probably countless

The Death Star was tested on several occassions before Alderaan. Another test was just cruel and a means to get Leia to talk.

I don't think you understand what simpleton means. (taken from dictionary)

Simpleton: noun. a silly person; fool

Of the list of aliens that Beni provided, none of them are simpletons. Odan-Urr was no simpleton. The Collicoids were not simpletons. The Geonosians and Bothans were not simpletons. Get over your xenophobia, it makes you look like a simpleton.

If the Sith are so great, how come they didn't conquer the Republic without embracing Democracy (if only for a short time)? The Sith have never been able to stand strong because of the way they operate: Sith Lords are superior and everyone else is made to serve. That doesn't work. I know of non-Force sensitives that are far greater than any Sith Lord could ever be.

It's time to get over your delusions.

Ahem, well this is how I see it:

 

Jedi = wrong

Sith = wrong

Je'daii = right

Kreia = awesome

That's more of a subjective thing. While Sith and Jedi may both be wrong, would you not agree that the Jedi are the good guys the Sith the bad guys?

The Death Star was tested on several occassions before Alderaan. Another test was just cruel and a means to get Leia to talk.

 

I don't think you understand what simpleton means. (taken from dictionary)

 

Simpleton: noun. a silly person; fool

 

Of the list of aliens that Beni provided, none of them are simpletons. Odan-Urr was no simpleton. The Collicoids were not simpletons. The Geonosians and Bothans were not simpletons. Get over your xenophobia, it makes you look like a simpleton.

 

If the Sith are so great, how come they didn't conquer the Republic without embracing Democracy (if only for a short time)? The Sith have never been able to stand strong because of the way they operate: Sith Lords are superior and everyone else is made to serve. That doesn't work. I know of non-Force sensitives that are far greater than any Sith Lord could ever be.

 

It's time to get over your delusions.

was it combat tested before by the Empire? even if yes, then it was a nice show off to Leia

I know what that word means, and most of the sw races are simpletons with few highly intelligent and equally ugly

that cannot be trusted, simple rule of survivor, trust your own species

how ? well, simple: writing, it is obvious that writers are forced to present SW like this. if this was a real world then republic woulld be obliterated instantly.

Siths ways work completely fine. everybody does what is his to do. everybody serves someone else in this or other form

yes, you should definately stop being naive

Naboo, isnt that place full of those aquatic simpletons ? ehh I must admit, he should destroyed that planet instead of Alderaan. but anyway it served a right purpose and it was a test shot, it is justified, good as a threat and a good testing ground for a kaboom. of course that are support bombing of those two, it saved many japanese lives, otherwise there would be bloodshed on the streets of Japanese mainland and japanese wouldnt back, that is in their culture, they would probably kill many americans and australians in the process while there would be also many casualties on their side. nuclear pew pew was technically a right choice and a good opportunity for combat testing.

 

yes, long list of simpletons with weird faces, the only one I accept are Rakata and Chiss are humans, just blue, offspring of humans anyway as few other races so they are much or less accepted - but for the sake of the Empire they should be assimilated into human races or close to it.

 

of course they are independant, they have privileges just like any citizen of republic. and repressed of course, repression is a totally fine way for plewing scum. their minds flourish much better than in satgnant democracy, when they see someone that is inferior to them then they call them that, dont use words like "different" just to make it easy. they do researches, they make art, they waste all the time in the world for what they want to do.

free and happy. of course Sith Lords have more privileges but after all they are special snowflakes with shiny powers, they deserve it - people are not equal and tthat is a natural state of things.

 

no, I dont think so, after Emperor's death ( altho I think he will never die, just move into another plane after his Empire gonna be destroyed, smacked and whatever else by those hippies ) probably Wrath would wipe every one council member if they were to start rebellion and I guess his power iis on the similar level as true body of Vitiate and he is currently immortal so hes next to throne or maybe some real hidden child of Emperor, his flesh and blood. I think that four of the current councilors would fully cooperate together to prevent infighting, after all they are not a rabble, they are top elite so they would keep it straight. and even if there was to be a fight then the strongest would become Emperor if not Wrath.

 

Baras was simply power hungry and Malgus, he has different views than a council, just two Siths that are easily put down, not much of a threat. also even if whole council would battle themselves then their ministries would still operate.

 

Lucas and authors of EU could pass with their silly notion of victorious Republic but now when Bioware is doing things and have players on both sides, they gonna try at least rationally steer future of the Empire unless they will be forced into good vs evil, republic yaaaay! thats the whole point and problem of star wars, naive white knightish perspective wins against rationality and progress/success - well, people wish about such things so they get it

 

and how many people try to control republic, bomb them from inside, decimate and whatever else? probably countless

And for the record all Sith are power hungry. It's in the Sith Code: "through power I gain victory". Baras would be followed by a hundred other Sith and a hundred more. The Emperor's Wrath can put down as many of them as he likes. But that's not going to fill the vacuum is it? A vacuum that will eventually consume the Sith Empire entirely. Or the Republic will simply destroy them, they are after all losing the war.

You've also failed to tell me what the Galactic Empire did for the galaxy that was beneficial. That is because the answer is nothing. Nothing whatsoever, they didn't even bring peace. Turn your attention to the Galactic Civil War.

And finally, your hardly giving good publicity for the Empire. Your simply proving me right. That the Empire breeds selfish people who don't care about the lives or importance of others and are happy to go around killing people and committing mass genocide to maintain there own self-importance and power. But alas they are doomed to be toppled by the people they oppress and so will forever be heralded as how not to run a galaxy.

was it combat tested before by the Empire? even if yes, then it was a nice show off to Leia

 

I know what that word means, and most of the sw races are simpletons with few highly intelligent and equally ugly

that cannot be trusted, simple rule of survivor, trust your own species

 

how ? well, simple: writing, it is obvious that writers are forced to present SW like this. if this was a real world then republic woulld be obliterated instantly.

 

Siths ways work completely fine. everybody does what is his to do. everybody serves someone else in this or other form

 

yes, you should definately stop being naive

When in doubt, blame the writers! Gotta love it.

I'd show historical examples of similar systems to the Sith Empire and Galactic Empire getting crushed, but I won't. You can just use wikipedia or a nice historical textbook.

Go on! Go learn something new. We'll be here waiting for your return.

That's more of a subjective thing. While Sith and Jedi may both be wrong, would you not agree that the Jedi are the good guys the Sith the bad guys?

When in doubt, blame the writers! Gotta love it.

 

I'd show historical examples of similar systems to the Sith Empire and Galactic Empire getting crushed, but I won't. You can just use wikipedia or a nice historical textbook.

 

Go on! Go learn something new. We'll be here waiting for your return.

Labeling people or organisations a 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is equally subjective. As are the terms 'good' and 'evil' so I prefer to avoid using them. The Jedi create peace and the Sith create suffering, the Jedi are therefore desirable and the Sith are not, that much can be said.

True again. Given a choice, I'd take the Jedi any day. I wouldn't last very long in the Sith Empire. At least the Jedi give me a chance.

Good thing about the Jedi is that serving in the Order isn't a life sentence. You can leave whenever you want and not get punished for it. Sith... not so much.

Don't be silly Aurbere, his tenuous grasp of the English language and ignorant responses to my arguments obviously display his inability to read.

Oooooohh. Burn!

Edit: Of course, I could just tell the story of how my grandfather entered the Nazi gas chambers. Harrowing...

When in doubt, blame the writers! Gotta love it.

 

I'd show historical examples of similar systems to the Sith Empire and Galactic Empire getting crushed, but I won't. You can just use wikipedia or a nice historical textbook.

 

Go on! Go learn something new. We'll be here waiting for your return.

well that is completely true, its writers thing and public demand

you wouldnt be able to show even one such example from real life history.

indeed, you should go and start reading more than school history txtbooks

also you very much like to use words evil and good - that is a sign of slave morality, you are very much fixiated on " we are good guys"

even your friend who disagrees with me uses a master morality "right" "wrong"

Don't be silly Aurbere, his tenuous grasp of the English language and ignorant responses to my arguments obviously display his inability to read.

yes my english grammar is flawed, but your arguments are simply lacking rational base. like a child playing a savior

well that is completely true, its writers thing and public demand

 

you wouldnt be able to show even one such example from real life history.

 

indeed, you should go and start reading more than school history txtbooks

 

also you very much like to use words evil and good - that is a sign of slave morality, you are very much fixiated on " we are good guys"

even your friend who disagrees with me uses a master morality "right" "wrong"

I really don't want to tell the stories of how my grandfather entered the Nazi gas chambers. So for my sake, please leave it alone.

The reason I point to those stories is because the Galactic Empire is based off of the Third Reich. And by extension, so is the Sith Empire (because they are based off of the Galactic Empire).

I really don't want to tell the stories of how my grandfather entered the Nazi gas chambers. So for my sake, please leave it alone.

 

The reason I point to those stories is because the Galactic Empire is based off of the Third Reich. And by extension, so is the Sith Empire (because they are based off of the Galactic Empire).

I could not care less who entered what and with whom - I dont really know why you stated it; seeking pity or showing that your huge emotional attachement to it makes this subject difficult to you. Third Reich has nothing to do with Sith Empire beyond dark theme and nationalistic roots, in fact more species ones in this case. Militaristic theme also is similar and maybe uniforms a little little bit but whole way of how Third Reich operated is completely different from the Empire. There is no country in the real life similar to Sith Empire, there wasnt, well, was Rome Empire ( and even then similarity wasnt that big ), but it expired completely from different reasons. People assumed that Third Reich = Sith Empire simply because it was close time gap, it could be also Empire of Japan, China or one of many African Empires.

the sake of Sith Empire is what it is thanks to writers, Lucas, nothing more.

I could not care less who entered what and with whom - I dont really know why you stated it; seeking pity or showing that your huge emotional attachement to it makes this subject difficult to you. Third Reich has nothing to do with Sith Empire beyond dark theme and nationalistic roots, in fact more species ones in this case. Militaristic theme also is similar and maybe uniforms a little little bit but whole way of how Third Reich operated is completely different from the Empire. There is no country in the real life similar to Sith Empire, there wasnt, well, was Rome Empire, but it expires completely from different reasons. People assumed that Third Reich = Sith Empire simply because it was close time gap, it could be also Empire of Japan, China or one of many African Empires.

 

the sake of Sith Empire is what it is thanks to writers, Lucas, nothing more.

Even though George Lucas came out and said Galactic Empire was based off of the Third Reich? Not to mention that the Sith Empire is almost exactly like the Galactic Empire.

I'll let you connect the dots.

Edit: You know what? Don't bother replying. I'm done with this topic. It's just turned into a political debate that I don't want to be apart of.

I could not care less who entered what and with whom - I dont really know why you stated it; seeking pity or showing that your huge emotional attachement to it makes this subject difficult to you. Third Reich has nothing to do with Sith Empire beyond dark theme and nationalistic roots, in fact more species ones in this case. Militaristic theme also is similar and maybe uniforms a little little bit but whole way of how Third Reich operated is completely different from the Empire. There is no country in the real life similar to Sith Empire, there wasnt, well, was Rome Empire, but it expires completely from different reasons. People assumed that Third Reich = Sith Empire simply because it was close time gap, it could be also Empire of Japan, China or one of many African Empires.

 

the sake of Sith Empire is what it is thanks to writers, Lucas, nothing more.

Your ignorance baffles me. How you could possibly think Darth Plagueis (ironically a Sith Lord and former master of the Emperor) is a simpleton I have no idea. And how you can possibly think that building a huge massive super-weapon that blows up planets is a good thing baffles me also. Its just a big fat blob that screams "blow me up, I represent all the repression, oppression, waste of resources and evil of the Empire" and what happened? It was blown sky high along with the rest of the inefficient Empire. You also obviously have a very inflated and misguided view of the capabilities of humans, when most of them are far less intelligent than the likes of the Gree, the Colicoids, the Muun and the Bothans (you for example). But that's OK as the Empire have learned the mistakes they've made in the past and are actually attempting to put aside their restrictive xenophobia and accept more aliens into their ranks - another step closer to enlightenment.

 

And for the record all Sith are power hungry. It's in the Sith Code: "through power I gain victory". Baras would be followed by a hundred other Sith and a hundred more. The Emperor's Wrath can put down as many of them as he likes. But that's not going to fill the vacuum is it? A vacuum that will eventually consume the Sith Empire entirely. Or the Republic will simply destroy them, they are after all losing the war.

 

You've also failed to tell me what the Galactic Empire did for the galaxy that was beneficial. That is because the answer is nothing. Nothing whatsoever, they didn't even bring peace. Turn your attention to the Galactic Civil War.

 

And finally, your hardly giving good publicity for the Empire. Your simply proving me right. That the Empire breeds selfish people who don't care about the lives or importance of others and are happy to go around killing people and committing mass genocide to maintain there own self-importance and power. But alas they are doomed to be toppled by the people they oppress and so will forever be heralded as how not to run a galaxy.

EDIT: This argument isn't about morality. Its not about what 'right' and what 'wrong', its not about who's 'good' and who's 'bad'. Its about what works and what doesn't, and the Galactic and Sith Empires don't work.

Even though George Lucas came out and said Galactic Empire was based off of the Third Reich? Not to mention that the Sith Empire is almost exactly like the Galactic Empire.

 

I'll let you connect the dots.

just what I said, uniforms and theme, as it is among directors there is a huge possibility that Lucas was lacking knowledge about Reich and how it operated and of course he used that word because it gave it a proper attention "nazi nazi nazi" evil nazis and good people of democracy fighting tugezza. if he said that is based on Turkey, no one would probably care, except armenians or probably a hundred other examples. even Darth Vader helmet is somewhat similar to german but that is all.

You do realise that the Galactic Empire was inspired by the Nazi's right? But anyway if your so sure that you are right and by arguments are baseless, please address this:

 

 

EDIT: This argument isn't about morality. Its not about what 'right' and what 'wrong', its not about who's 'good' and who's 'bad'. Its about what works and what doesn't, and the Galactic and Sith Empires don't work.

and how long Empire lasted? from the beginning struggling with rebels. poor, hero writing nothing more, but yes, judging only by what is shown in the movies and what EU shows then Galactic Empire did nothing and was probably self sustaining evil machine that served only Emperor who wanted to kill everything.

only theme is a Third Reich, the way they were killing people is not actually similar and exclusive only to Germans

Sith Empire works quite well and should work that way in the future until some stupidity happens to justify movies

Bioware portrayed Empire pretty good

Apologies for ignoring your posts Maaurin. But I felt the need to deal with this particularly stubborn Sith lover.

Yeah. If you want to hear something I would add to this topic:

I think democracy isn't that important. There have been plenty of good monarchies throughout Star Wars history (especially if they had Jedi advisors) and also good monarchies throughout RL history.

The important thing is that the government respects the rights of the individual: life, liberty, pursuit for happiness, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, impartial courts, protection from threats they can't deal with themselves etc.

The Empire (both Empires) couldn't provide that. (Remember that through its first years the Galactic Empire was still kind of a democracy.)

Sith are opposed to individual rights. They think the individual has to earn this rights by becoming powerful enough to enforce them himself.

First let me say that yes the Jedi do prevent wars and protect the Republic from the Sith. But they don't learn. Like Einstein said:

 

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I'd say they do learn, but they aren't quick learners. They tried a different approach during the First Schism than with Exar Kun.

The Jedi keep responding to the Sith threat with a lightsaber, drive them back and enjoy peace again. Then the Sith inevitably return and they do the exact same thing, expecting different results. This is wrong, the Jedi need to adapt, change. Reconcile themselves with the Sith to put a real stop to the war. Yes it may not be completely successful but it's better than doing nothing at the expense of innocent lives.

I'm all or reconcilation with the Sith. Here are some things I think the Jedi Order could do:

1. Don't try to integrate every Force sensitive into the order. Offer them some basic training (so they can control their powers) and let them decide later if they want to join the order or life their life on their own. Of course they have to obey the law and stuff and also swear to respect certain rules (i.e. don't use mind trick to take advantage of others).

- Joing the Jedi Order was optional for a long period of time. Gav and Jori Daragon and also Nomi Sunrider chose not to join the Jedi Order until circumstances forced them. Even in TOR it is indicated several times that not all Force sensitives have to join.

2. Encourage Jedi who try to lead darksiders to the light side. Jedi like Tol Braga, the Master who trained the Nekghouls on Taris, Luke in RotJ show how it can be done.

3. Don't try to extract Sith who join the light side from their Order. Instead, encourage them to start light side movements in their order. Or even grey Sith who want a more moderate Sith Order.

4. Allow the research of more emotional uses of the Force, if they aren't really dark side. (=if they don't fuel themselves with hatered, anger, fear in unhealthy degrees)

I know this is not canon, but sometimes I pretend to believe that the chosen one has still to come and will be the one who lead the Sith Order to the light.

And on the topic of the Force:

 

"Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it." ~ Father

 

The Father is not wrong here as you suggested. Yes he loves his children and wants to accept and protect them both but his words do ring true. Several things support it:

 

 

[*]The Ones are descendants of the Celestials (the Father was a Celestial), ancient beings of incredible knowledge and power. Powerful enough to 'control' the Force. They keep the Force in balance between light and dark and affect its will. The Ones therefore know more about the Force and its will than any other being. The Father's word on the Force is equivalent to George Lucas' word on Star Wars.

I'm not sure. For example in physics, there are often several possible states of balance in a system. The system will often try to find the balanced state closest to its current state.

50% light and 50% darkness might be one balanced state, but if the Sith would conquer the galaxy and destroy every light side organization, the Force might shift to a balanced state of 20% light and 80% darkness or something like that.

So the Father wants to protect the balanced state which is the best compromise for his children, but not necessarily for the entire galaxy.

[*]This is a fictional material remember, why would the writers, guided by George Lucas himself, have made the Father say this if it wasn't true?

Because different writers have different ideas. In the game, the Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter story show the Jedi Order much differently form the Jedi stories. So different and unfavorable, that I would say these stories are wrong about the Jedi/give the wrong image about them.

Or, even more obvious, Traviss Mandalorians vs TCW Mandalorians.

[*]The Prophecy of the Chosen One said that a being of light would dispel the darkness and so bring 'balance to the Force'. This is a means by which the Force restored the balance. With the destruction of the Jedi there was too much darkness in the galaxy (years before, Sidious and Plagueis had already shifted the Force to the dark side in a ritual) and the Chosen One restored the balance by reintroducing the light.

The Prophecy is a strange thing in general. I would like to hear who wrote it and when and what it says. The things we know can be interpreted in very different ways.

[*]The Je'daii Order had to keep balance between light and dark on Tython. Too much light or dark would disrupt the climate and cause violent storms on the planet and destruction.

True, but if you consider my theory about different possible states of balance, that does mean that the state the Je'daii tried to achieve was actually quite instable. In TOE, there are no Force Storms on Tython anymore, even though the Je'daii wouldn't consider the Jedi Order there balanced.

[*]The Force Wars began when the Je'daii decided to pursue the light, causing by the will of the Force the followers of Bogan to emerge and pursue the dark. (Or the other way round it doesn't matter) It was the Force's way of redressing the balance. The Force Wars still however caused imbalance, and rendered Tython inhospitable.

As I said, I think this sells Rajivari and the other Masters short. They all brought good arguments for abandoning balance and devote the new Order to the light side or dark side.

From what we know from Dawn of the Jedi, it's actually quite likely that Rajivari developed his dark side principles based on the experience that the Je'daii balance didn't prepare them for the Rakata attack.

[*]Kreia preached the 'Insidious Force' because she recognized that the Force is indifferent to its users and only seeks to maintain balance in the Force at the cost of innocent lives.

I never thought I would agree with Kreia one day. But if the Force is really that obsessed with balance for balance's sake, screw the will of the Force. Peace and justice are more important than balance.

[*]In the history of the galaxy darkness and light have always existed, never just one.

 

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean both are good for the galaxy.

 

Both light and dark are needed in the galaxy, the battle between Jedi and Sith is a form of redressing this balance. If the Je'daii Order embrace light and dark, this balance would be perpetual and there would be no war between Jedi and Sith any longer. As long as the Je'daii didn't seek to pursue the light or dark and remained committed to their ideals. Yes some may stray from the path, they did before. But the Je'daii can deal with them in the same way. Through meditation (if they returned to Tython they could send them to the moons).

 

But that wouldn't allow for Jedi like Master Arca, Nomi Sunrider, the Exile, Tol Braga, Syo Bakarn, Yoda etc. The non-Force sensitives of the galaxy would loose much of what the Jedi did.

just what I said, uniforms and theme, as it is among directors there is a huge possibility that Lucas was lacking knowledge about Reich and how it operated and of course he used that word because it gave it a proper attention "nazi nazi nazi" evil nazis and good people of democracy fighting tugezza. if he said that is based on Turkey, no one would probably care, except armenians or probably a hundred other examples. even Darth Vader helmet is somewhat similar to german but that is all.

• The Galactic Empire is xenophobic, which is akin to the Nazi's anti-semitism and general belief about the Aryan race.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire put heavily stress on military might, as did the Nazi's who promised a strong navy and a strong military once they came into power - playing off the German's nationalist pride.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire employed fear to keep its people inline and established authoritarian government over its its planets, they were ruled by military governors and policed by stormtroopers. The Nazi's ruled in a similar manner, setting up a system of regional governors just like the Galactic Empire did, and having the SS and the SA patrol the streets to maintain order. They were even referred to as 'stromtroopers'.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire established a personality cult around the Emperor, who ruled with absolute power. The Nazi's established a personality cult of similar design around Adolf Hitler, who ruled in the same way.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire established COMPNOR to maintain support for the Galactic Empire. This included organizing mass rallies and youth organisations. The Nazi regime used mass rallies to create feelings of mass hysteria in support of them, and established Nazi Youth to convert the young to their cause.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire established a form of secret police called the Imperial Security Bureau, much like the Nazi's did, in order to remove political opponents and keep order.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire advocated mass murder and genocide to further its goals and maintain 'order', such as the destruction of Alderaan. The Nazi's did the same e.g. the Holocaust.
   
   
  
• The colours of the Galactic Empire, red, black and white are the same as those colours in the Nazi Flag.
   
   
  
• Palpatine promised an Empire that would last for a thousand years, Hitler promised a 'thousand year reich'
   
   
  
• Palpatine's rise to power is very similar to Hitler's rise to power, they both progressed to power democratically, claimed the current system was corrupt and reformed it into an authoritarian state.
  

I could go on, but it is obvious that the Galactic Empire is a mirror image of Nazi Germany. And the Sith Empire is very similar. They are xenophobic, put heavy stress on military might, employed fear, ruled by military governors, had a nationalistic image and a personality cult, had a secret police (imperial intelligence), the Sith Empire's colours were red and black. So if you support the Galactic & Sith Empire, you by default support the Nazi's. Think on that.

(And as long as the Sith remain in control of the Sith Empire, it is doomed to fail - that is the nature of the Sith)

Wrong:

 

 

• The Galactic Empire is xenophobic, which is akin to the Nazi's anti-semitism and general belief about the Aryan race.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire put heavily stress on military might, as did the Nazi's who promised a strong navy and a strong military once they came into power - playing off the German's nationalist pride.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire employed fear to keep its people inline and established authoritarian government over its its planets, they were ruled by military governors and policed by stormtroopers. The Nazi's ruled in a similar manner, setting up a system of regional governors just like the Galactic Empire did, and having the SS and the SA patrol the streets to maintain order. They were even referred to as 'stromtroopers'.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire established a personality cult around the Emperor, who ruled with absolute power. The Nazi's established a personality cult of similar design around Adolf Hitler, who ruled in the same way.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire established COMPNOR to maintain support for the Galactic Empire. This included organizing mass rallies and youth organisations. The Nazi regime used mass rallies to create feelings of mass hysteria in support of them, and established Nazi Youth to convert the young to their cause.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire established a form of secret police called the Imperial Security Bureau, much like the Nazi's did, in order to remove political opponents and keep order.
   
   
  
• The Galactic Empire advocated mass murder and genocide to further its goals and maintain 'order', such as the destruction of Alderaan. The Nazi's did the same e.g. the Holocaust.
   
   
  
• The colours of the Galactic Empire, red, black and white are the same as those colours in the Nazi Flag.
   
   
  
• Palpatine promised an Empire that would last for a thousand years, Hitler promised a 'thousand year reich'
   
   
  
• Palpatine's rise to power is very similar to Hitler's rise to power, they both progressed to power democratically, claimed the current system was corrupt and reformed it into an authoritarian state.
  

 

I could go on, but it is obvious that the Galactic Empire is a mirror image of Nazi Germany. And the Sith Empire is very similar. They are xenophobic, put heavy stress on military might, employed fear, ruled by military governors, had a nationalistic image and a personality cult, had a secret police (imperial intelligence), the Sith Empire's colours were red and black. So if you support the Galactic & Sith Empire, you by default support the Nazi's. Think on that.

 

(And as long as the Sith remain in control of the Sith Empire, it is doomed to fail - that is the nature of the Sith)

most of the things you pointed out are similar/the same to countries before Third Reich and to those that were functioning during reign of the Third Reich, with exception for 1k reich and colour scheme - and everything thqat just for better sales. Nothing really more original about it,

whole shortcut "nazi" is wrong and by all means ( but of course I like very much war machinery of the Reich, one of the most beautiful uniforms and tank models ) I do not support socialism in any form, if Sith Empire was socialistic then I would probably be completely uniterested in story. Other points you mentioned are completely fine and required for a strong, advancing country that seeks to further it borders. Sith Empire does not trust outsiders and all kind of aliens which is natural and fine ( it is not inside extermination based on ethnicity and relligion ).. You all like real life examples, but by that example you should mention that people of the Reich were happy with its course ah and Third Reich wasnt militaristic, if you look closer, its a myth. There wasnt also, what will be probably shocking to you antisemitism - there was anti-talmudic behaviour, but many of those things are currently forgotten and changed to sate those who like one sided history. and by all means I dont think that WW II origins or its aftermath are exactly place for this forums. but it is a huge exxageration to say that Sith Empire = Third Reich