Aurojiin Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hmmmm. I agree that it's quite feasible in terms of DPS vs TPS; it's more that Combat Sents can hit a phenomenal spike about 5-6 GCDs in to the fight (last tick of MS + autocrit Blade Storm). I haven't seen a tank hold that off without guard, but I'd never say never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGNMTTRN Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Do note that shadows also have significant self-healing, which generates threat as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpftard Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Do note that shadows also have significant self-healing, which generates threat as well. I still havemy doubts on that one. If I'm gonna get pulled off of, then 99% of the time it's during that first Force Lightning. To the point where on any given boss fight I will hold off with FL until I can get those first couple taunts off. It just always seems like that is the critical time when my threat gen just drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) I still havemy doubts on that one. If I'm gonna get pulled off of, then 99% of the time it's during that first Force Lightning. To the point where on any given boss fight I will hold off with FL until I can get those first couple taunts off. It just always seems like that is the critical time when my threat gen just drops. Recklessness, my man. Shock > Wither > Discharge > Taunt (between GCDs) > Shock > Recklessness > FL > normal rotation > nap With ubergoober DPS, you can always chuck the AoE taunt as soon as the single target wears, assuming you don't have another need for it in the following 45 seconds (unlikely, on any current boss). Edit: For the record, besides taunts, FL is the 2nd largest contributor to single target TPS. Shock is #1, FL is #2, Wither is #3. Edited February 14, 2013 by Omophorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerfire Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Recklessness, my man. Shock > Wither > Discharge > Taunt (between GCDs) > Shock > Recklessness > FL > normal rotation > nap With ubergoober DPS, you can always chuck the AoE taunt as soon as the single target wears, assuming you don't have another need for it in the following 45 seconds (unlikely, on any current boss). Edit: For the record, besides taunts, FL is the 2nd largest contributor to single target TPS. Shock is #1, FL is #2, Wither is #3. I usually use one Thrash/Double Strike after the Discharge and a 2nd one if it doesn't proc the shock, it is possible to lose aggro if you wait for shock to be ready by its natural cooldown. That's usually one of the rare spots for Thrash, I also still try to proc Energize for the 2nd charge on Recklessness like a total noob but I reckon it's better used on Wither. If you can afford it (according to the boss fight) you can start with Force Pull for a base of 5k threat, it's not as much as a procced shock but better than a non proc shock. Anyway, only boss fight where tanks can get into trouble is the TFB on 16 man since it's unfeasible to guard all the dps or have the "best" tank take the best dps like on 8 man. But here you can use the orbs I guess, never tried those on HM, or you can walk 4-5m and taunt. On the note of TPS which I've tested, I presume I can get decent numbers on my assassin as a dps and at 19 sec in the fight I'm sitting at 2.5k dps, 38 sec it's 2.4k dps. This is with using everything for a burst as soon as the fight starts. While tanking I got 45k threat or so at around 20 seconds last time on the tentacles (10% gain from taunts instead of 30% since I keep staying close). So yeah if a dps pulls around 3k dps from the start and keeps it up for more than 20-25 sec (3 taunt rotations + start of the fight) without ever dropping threat they'll probably pull :-( P.S. I forgot what I actually wanted to say when quoting you and remembered: Recklessness won't save you, yes it increases the crit chance by 60% of each FL tick but it's only a 51% increase in damage if they proc, and not all of the ticks proc. So overall it's nice to use but if you would've lost aggro without it, you'll still lose it with. Focus on rotation/ augments (12 power on each) first. Edited February 14, 2013 by Panzerfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I usually use one Thrash/Double Strike after the Discharge and a 2nd one if it doesn't proc the shock, it is possible to lose aggro if you wait for shock to be ready by its natural cooldown. That's usually one of the rare spots for Thrash, I also still try to proc Energize for the 2nd charge on Recklessness like a total noob but I reckon it's better used on Wither. Taunt debuff should be on the target still when Shock comes off CD, if you don't taunt too early. I find the biggest risk of losing threat is mid-channel on the first Lightning without Recklessness. Thrash early is a situational thing. If you're doing a lot of dodging/shielding/parrying, it can work out and you'll get a little boost from Recklessness + Energize. It can also leave you empty on Force and doing a lot of Saber Striking after your first FL to build your pool back up. Plus, in terms of overall benefit, having Recklessness active for FL rather than Shock is superior, so risking both charges on a Chain Shock is not ideal if you can help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I find the biggest risk of losing threat is mid-channel on the first Lightning without Recklessness. I found that the only time I have a chance of actually losing aggro is when I'm casting Mind Crush out of sheer boredom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerfire Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) I find the biggest risk of losing threat is mid-channel on the first Lightning without Recklessness. You'll find it easier by using that Thrash and possible Energize proc, you can still use Recklessness with Lightning and the Wither after it, or risk it with Shock. I'll check next time to see if I'm gimping my rotation by using Thrash that much, it depends on the boss I guess to make you shield at least once a second or close to. Edited February 15, 2013 by Panzerfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Ktiru.... I love you No seriously I wish I had of read these forums long ago rather than listening to popular opinion on my server. Serves me right I guess Now the trouble I'm having is being able to optimise my current stats at my level but I just can't get the right balance. My pool is about 1600 but I'm well overstacked on shield and the only way to get my absorb up is to use an enhancement that nobody seems to know where to get. I'm at CH/Campaign level so any advice people can give would be great Edited February 20, 2013 by Ailie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpftard Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Ktiru.... I love you No seriously I wish I had of read these forums long ago rather than listening to popular opinion on my server. Serves me right I guess Now the trouble I'm having is being able to optimise my current stats at my level but I just can't get the right balance. My pool is about 1600 but I'm well overstacked on shield and the only way to get my absorb up is to use an enhancement that nobody seems to know where to get. I'm at CH/Campaign level so any advice people can give would be great Need a little more info. What are your current stats? What relics are you using? What are you augmenting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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