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Sorcerer


Venoom's Avatar


Venoom
02.17.2020 , 12:28 PM | #1
Hi,

I am a returning player that will probably mostly pvp since that what for my time allows. I am not sure if there is a tier list what classes stand where. I am hearing a lot of shouts on Snipers/Gunslingers being rather top damage but where are sorcerers now? what's their place in pvp? Of course it all depends on a skill also as sorcs can be hard to master but generally speaking can someone shed some light on them in the current phase of the game?

septru's Avatar


septru
02.17.2020 , 04:37 PM | #2
https://tiermaker.com/list/online-ga...-239217/362519

I don't completely agree with the tier list. For instance in my opinion, ling sorc would be much S list. But, the list is decently accurate. Every class has a deviation of at max 1 tier.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
02.17.2020 , 04:53 PM | #3
For solo ranked, deception sins and concealment ops are on top by a decent margin. Below them are lightning sorcs and maras, followed somewhat closely by mercs and snipers. Then pts and finally juggs. So I mostly agree with the linked tier list, except for whoever put mm sniper that high up. Both my experience playing a ton of ranked games this season, and the leaderboards, show that snipers are having a rough time in solos this season.

Also, madness sorcs are much worse than lightning for ranked, but for regs they're both fine.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.17.2020 , 10:14 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
https://tiermaker.com/list/online-ga...-239217/362519

I don't completely agree with the tier list. For instance in my opinion, ling sorc would be much S list. But, the list is decently accurate. Every class has a deviation of at max 1 tier.
Interesting link. I’ve never seen that before.

I’ve a question. If the B rating has the most classes in it, wouldn’t that mean they are the most balanced and the others need to be brought up or down to those LvLs?

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
02.18.2020 , 04:47 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Interesting link. I’ve never seen that before.

I’ve a question. If the B rating has the most classes in it, wouldn’t that mean they are the most balanced and the others need to be brought up or down to those LvLs?
I'd say A and B are both fairly balanced. It's S, C, D that are overperforming/underperforming.

And anyway, in my opinion, there are always going to be at least a few specs in S and C. I think D tier are the ones that need the most attention right now. But then, if we do get that stupid jugg tactical that devs are trolling us with, jugg would rise to C, at the very least.

One could also argue that some of the ones in S tier deserve an S+ tier, nerfing them a bit wouldn't hurt

Venoom's Avatar


Venoom
02.18.2020 , 07:50 AM | #6
Thanks to all for replies.

septru's Avatar


septru
02.18.2020 , 12:37 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Interesting link. I’ve never seen that before.
For context this tier was made by Krea during a twitch stream in which over 100 viewers participated and helped propose the tier list you see now. This is the full video of the stream::https://www.twitch.tv/videos/5316585...=all&sort=time

Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’ve a question. If the B rating has the most classes in it, wouldn’t that mean they are the most balanced and the others need to be brought up or down to those LvLs?
Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
I'd say A and B are both fairly balanced. It's S, C, D that are overperforming/underperforming.

And anyway, in my opinion, there are always going to be at least a few specs in S and C. I think D tier are the ones that need the most attention right now. But then, if we do get that stupid jugg tactical that devs are trolling us with, jugg would rise to C, at the very least.


This response by Equeliber is spot on. This tier list is not supposed to be a comprehensive, ultimate guide to the hierarchy of classes in 6.0. There are a lot of limitations. For instance, the tier list was made one month ago before the AP pt buffs. Additionally it does not take into account the nuances of each fight: healer/tank/dps games, all ranged vs all melee, etc...

Also interestingly is that there is a "cultural gap" that is occurring between EU and NA right now. On NA, practically every jugg tank takes Force Bound set bonus, whereas on EU most jugg tanks use the Descent of the Fearless set bonus. I have no explanation for that other than "a cultural gap." While the damage increase from Descent of the Fearless is noticeable, the damage mitigation bonus from Force Bound far exceeds it. It can very easily be said that Force Bound is the better set bonus. Krea, at the time, having played mostly on EU, did not know of the force bound set bonus. And therefore rated jugg tanks much lower than PT tanks, whereas in reality the two could be on the same tier.

The thing that the tier list excels at is giving a rough estimate of where each class is. Like I said, each spec can deviate from its proposed ranking by 1 tier. For example: with a tank, operatives healers surpass all other healers and are undoubtedly S tier, but without tanks they are merely an A tier healer. Similarly with lethality ops.

Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
One could also argue that some of the ones in S tier deserve an S+ tier, nerfing them a bit wouldn't hurt
That was the argument made by me and others, however I think Krea wanted to stick to the normal S tier down tier structure. This is really a shame because I think opers and sins do need a nerf, whereas not all S tier classes do. Also could allow ling sorc (getting back to the OP's original question) to be S tier. While ling sorc is clearly not on the same level of sin and oper, it is noticeably better than fury and miles ahead of marksman.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.18.2020 , 06:45 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
For context this tier was made by Krea during a twitch stream in which over 100 viewers participated and helped propose the tier list you see now. This is the full video of the stream::https://www.twitch.tv/videos/5316585...=all&sort=time

This response by Equeliber is spot on. This tier list is not supposed to be a comprehensive, ultimate guide to the hierarchy of classes in 6.0. There are a lot of limitations. For instance, the tier list was made one month ago before the AP pt buffs. Additionally it does not take into account the nuances of each fight: healer/tank/dps games, all ranged vs all melee, etc...

Also interestingly is that there is a "cultural gap" that is occurring between EU and NA right now. On NA, practically every jugg tank takes Force Bound set bonus, whereas on EU most jugg tanks use the Descent of the Fearless set bonus. I have no explanation for that other than "a cultural gap." While the damage increase from Descent of the Fearless is noticeable, the damage mitigation bonus from Force Bound far exceeds it. It can very easily be said that Force Bound is the better set bonus. Krea, at the time, having played mostly on EU, did not know of the force bound set bonus. And therefore rated jugg tanks much lower than PT tanks, whereas in reality the two could be on the same tier.

The thing that the tier list excels at is giving a rough estimate of where each class is. Like I said, each spec can deviate from its proposed ranking by 1 tier. For example: with a tank, operatives healers surpass all other healers and are undoubtedly S tier, but without tanks they are merely an A tier healer. Similarly with lethality ops.

That was the argument made by me and others, however I think Krea wanted to stick to the normal S tier down tier structure. This is really a shame because I think opers and sins do need a nerf, whereas not all S tier classes do. Also could allow ling sorc (getting back to the OP's original question) to be S tier. While ling sorc is clearly not on the same level of sin and oper, it is noticeably better than fury and miles ahead of marksman.
Thanks for the detailed response. It answered some of my questions. I guess my main one is still the whole balance thing. Regardless of current classes, should we we even need to have 4 seperate tiers (which is obviously rhetorical because we all want classes to be better balanced). And considering we do have 4 or maybe 4+, is the balancing really out that much or are the differences between the tiers or much larger.
So I’m wondering, should Bioware be trying to bring the top tiers back to the middle tier and boost the lower tiers up or am I perceiving that incorrectly (Serious question). Is it as simple as a philosophical change to balancing?

septru's Avatar


septru
02.18.2020 , 11:01 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Thanks for the detailed response. It answered some of my questions. I guess my main one is still the whole balance thing. Regardless of current classes, should we we even need to have 4 seperate tiers (which is obviously rhetorical because we all want classes to be better balanced). And considering we do have 4 or maybe 4+, is the balancing really out that much or are the differences between the tiers or much larger.
So I’m wondering, should Bioware be trying to bring the top tiers back to the middle tier and boost the lower tiers up or am I perceiving that incorrectly (Serious question). Is it as simple as a philosophical change to balancing?
Are you asking for my personal opinion? I'm confused.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.19.2020 , 03:26 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
For context this tier was made by Krea during a twitch stream in which over 100 viewers participated and helped propose the tier list you see now. This is the full video of the stream::https://www.twitch.tv/videos/5316585...=all&sort=time







This response by Equeliber is spot on. This tier list is not supposed to be a comprehensive, ultimate guide to the hierarchy of classes in 6.0. There are a lot of limitations. For instance, the tier list was made one month ago before the AP pt buffs. Additionally it does not take into account the nuances of each fight: healer/tank/dps games, all ranged vs all melee, etc...

Also interestingly is that there is a "cultural gap" that is occurring between EU and NA right now. On NA, practically every jugg tank takes Force Bound set bonus, whereas on EU most jugg tanks use the Descent of the Fearless set bonus. I have no explanation for that other than "a cultural gap." While the damage increase from Descent of the Fearless is noticeable, the damage mitigation bonus from Force Bound far exceeds it. It can very easily be said that Force Bound is the better set bonus. Krea, at the time, having played mostly on EU, did not know of the force bound set bonus. And therefore rated jugg tanks much lower than PT tanks, whereas in reality the two could be on the same tier.

The thing that the tier list excels at is giving a rough estimate of where each class is. Like I said, each spec can deviate from its proposed ranking by 1 tier. For example: with a tank, operatives healers surpass all other healers and are undoubtedly S tier, but without tanks they are merely an A tier healer. Similarly with lethality ops.



That was the argument made by me and others, however I think Krea wanted to stick to the normal S tier down tier structure. This is really a shame because I think opers and sins do need a nerf, whereas not all S tier classes do. Also could allow ling sorc (getting back to the OP's original question) to be S tier. While ling sorc is clearly not on the same level of sin and oper, it is noticeably better than fury and miles ahead of marksman.
Good post. Went great with my afternoon 420.
Please join the discussion on how to improve rewards for PVP
HERE
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...82#post9840582