I must say i see this thread in every mmo forum.

 

Undercutting happens. Deal with it.

Isn't it funny how so many AH-Players champion the effects of the "free market" (something is worth whatever someone will pay for it) when it comes to exorbitantly over-charging for stuff; but the moment someone uses that same "free market" to undercut them we get threads like this?

All The Best

10000000% agree with you on crafting items. Some of it is absolutely ridiculous to the point they are actually selling crafted items below the costs to make them.

 

My observations of the different under cutters are as follows.

 

1. Some people want to get rid of excess items quickly because they no longer need them or plan to make more. They usually want it all gone n one listing and you will never see them again.

 

2. Some people don’t consider their own costs and think undercutting massively will make them more credits. These people are uneducated with any type of selling in games or the real world and follow the pack instead of using the gray matter between their ears.

 

3. Some people are using excess Jawa junk to craft and feel it has no cost price.

 

 

TBC, iPad having issues

If this was SWG I would agree with you because in that game, we actually had to go place the harvesters, and then go unload the harvesters, get the meat or whatever else you needed. We didn't have companions doing it. As far as crafting, we also had to spend time doing the crafting. Again no companions to craft stuff for us. Here most of the crafting is done by the companions so my time is not taken up like it was in SWG so I don't charge as I did in SWG because all the crafting I did there I did myself, even the gathering.

One thing I have noticed and I want to start a thread about it, is the psychology of GTN buyers.

My own observations seem to indicate the lower the price goes, the less value buyers associate with the item and sales drop off and you sell less.

This is just an example : say I have pink blue dye that I could be selling at 200k ( made up price), they will sell well even if other people are competing with you around the 200k mark. But as soon as the price gets driven down to 50k, the sales dry up, even if you are the cheapest.

 

Now I know that sounds weird and it took me a while to come up with this theory. But I think people feel items priced too low are trash and will always be that price and therefore buy less because there is no urgency.

As an experiment to test this theory, I decided to buy all of a specific dual colour dye listed at 10k (that I don’t make). These dyes had been sitting there for days and had hardly sold (I kept count). I relisted 2 at 150k and they sold in a few hours. So I kept increasing the price after each sale and I sold all 20 of them in 12 hours between 150-250k each.

I’ve now reproduced this experiment 8 times on two different dyes. It’s worked every time.

 

Honestly, undercutting does just as much harm to the seller as it does to the competition.

The sell has to work 2-5 times harder to get the mats to craft and they make 2-5 time less credits (or more if you consider it take much longer to sell them all when they also flood the market).

 

I’ve now changed tactics. I do not sell below the upper price I know people will regularly buy at (proper market price). I know longer get involved with price wars and most of the time I’m the 2-3rd highest price. Amazingly, I can sell just as many as before, but I’m making 5-10 times as many credits. Which means I don’t have to spend all my time on the market or farm as much to make more credits than before. “Work smart, Not work hard” is the best way IMO.

 

Anyway, don’t stress about the undercutters as much ( I don’t anymore). They are only hurting themselves. Just get yourself a big portfolio of items to sell and list them a a reasonable rate and you will make a lot of credits a week, even if you are the most expensive 😉

What you're talking about are Veblen goods. People buy more as the price goes up.

What you're talking about are Veblen goods. People buy more as the price goes up.

I’d never heard of that term and as a long time retailer on many fronts, I had to look it up. Absolutely amazing that it describes what I’m seeing as I increase the prices.

It also explains why usually high demand and high priced items stop selling as fast when the price drops too low.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

I would suggest to anyone who crafts dyes to sell on the GTN to go and read up on Veblen goods. It seems I’ve already inadvertently been following this practice myself and making more credits than I did selling a massive volume of dyes and spending heaps of time farming and crafting.

I’d never heard of that term and as a long time retailer on many fronts, I had to look it up. Absolutely amazing that it describes what I’m seeing as I increase the prices.

It also explains why usually high demand and high priced items stop selling as fast when the price drops too low.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

 

I would suggest to anyone who crafts dyes to sell on the GTN to go and read up on Veblen goods. It seems I’ve already inadvertently been following this practice myself and making more credits than I did selling a massive volume of dyes and spending heaps of time farming and crafting.

This is true to a point. And from time to time the market can "adjust" itself and those same goods can drop significantly. This would tend to hurt those who try to accumulate large quantities of certain commodities … even if they are fast moving items. Which is why I personally keep track of what I have paid for anything I intend to resale.

Working the market successfully should always include watching items that any player intends to resale to determine if that "cheapest price" is in fact a bargain.

A lot of interesting posts lately.

If this was SWG I would agree with you because in that game, we actually had to go place the harvesters, and then go unload the harvesters, get the meat or whatever else you needed. We didn't have companions doing it. As far as crafting, we also had to spend time doing the crafting. Again no companions to craft stuff for us. Here most of the crafting is done by the companions so my time is not taken up like it was in SWG so I don't charge as I did in SWG because all the crafting I did there I did myself, even the gathering.

Out of curiosity:

If a player has maxed out the allowable number of characters on a server... times the number of available companions I'm guessing that said companions could collect quite a large amount of mats as well as the manufacture of finished goods...

Well at least up until the advent of 6.0 Even still I'm guessing that there are some basic items that can accumulate rapidly.

(Just curious)

People see something like Mischief and Anarchy listed for 800 million credits and think that’s what they will get for it. But just because something is listed for that price doesn’t mean anyone is buying it for that price. When you are dealing with high value items like that, you have two options: 1. Sell it much cheaper and sell it fast. 2. Be extremely patient and try to maximize your sale price. If you list something like that for 100 million, you may actually sell it quickly. If you want 500 million or more, you are probably going to have to wait for just the right moment when no others are listed and someone with deep pockets just has to have it right then.

For crafted stuff, you really have to just find a market and make it yours. Years ago before all the server merges when I was playing multiple toons in all the endgame content, I stayed in credits by crafting and selling implants. The only way I really got a steady income out of it was by crafting implants for all levels of player. That was back when individual classes had their own main stat (aim, wisdom, etc.), which meant I needed to craft several types of mods for each level. It was like a second job. But if you really want to make bank, that’s the kind of effort it took. I don’t know if that’s still true, though. I’ve just come back after being away from the game for years, and the economy is much different now. Everything sells for a lot more than it used to.

Out of curiosity:

If a player has maxed out the allowable number of characters on a server... times the number of available companions I'm guessing that said companions could collect quite a large amount of mats as well as the manufacture of finished goods...

Well at least up until the advent of 6.0 Even still I'm guessing that there are some basic items that can accumulate rapidly.

 

(Just curious)

You are limited by time, quite frankly. When I was crafting heavy duty, I did all the crafting with my main and had my alts collecting mats. But even just logging in, collecting, sending the companion out again and then swapping the mats out to your crafting toon took some time. And most people aren’t logging in every few hours to maximize how much they can collect. I’m assuming most of us have real jobs.

Out of curiosity:

If a player has maxed out the allowable number of characters on a server... times the number of available companions I'm guessing that said companions could collect quite a large amount of mats as well as the manufacture of finished goods...

Well at least up until the advent of 6.0 Even still I'm guessing that there are some basic items that can accumulate rapidly.

 

(Just curious)

I’m up to 43 Alts and I can do just that. But it’s time consuming going from one Alt to the next to send them off. So depending on how many lvl 50 comps you have per Alt and what mats you need, I find using 8 Alts enough to farm and get back when I finish the relogging.

I usually reserve this for blue mats, ie treasure hunting ones I might need for dye crafting. I use 8 treasure hunting Alts and send 8 comps off per Alt for the mats I need the most. I only use the rich and bountiful missions as they return the best for the credits spent.

The other thing I do is farm colour crystals in my SH. I’ve about 10-15 of each colour and I use all 43 Alts to login and farm them (and it costs nothing). You then haVe to wait 3 hours to do it again, but my wife also does it, so we get about 80 goes every 3 hours (if we can be bothered). Once again, we mainly do it for crystals that are a real pain to go farm on planets because some are tediously slow or have too many mobs to fight.

Something I’m finding pretty amazing atm is people selling the new grade 11 gray blue dyes below actual costs. Totally blows my mind because they could get 6-10 times the credits for the actual mats. Even buying them from the jawa vendor to craft is expensive compared to other mats.

Personally I can sell a min of 6 blue gray dyes a day at around 500k (because I only list 3 of each version). If I were to list more of them I flood the market at that price and they wouldn’t sell. So I get 3 mil every day selling 6 dyes.

The golden part for me is I don’t even need to use my own mats to craft them anymore because some people are dumb and sell the dyes below cost. Every day I pick up about 10 for under 90k each. I then sell them for 500k each.

I then sell my actual mats I would have used to craft the dyes and I use my excess jawa junk to buy the highest return on the GTN. Roughly 10-20 mil selling the mats I would have used to make the dyes,

At the end of the day, these clowns who undercut so much and drive the price down are only hurting themselves and making the rest of us “smart” crafters stupidly rich from their price war games, I’m hardly crafting any dyes these days compared to before 6.0 and still making 2-3 times more credits for doing nothing besides buying up the dyes people list under the market value.

People see something like Mischief and Anarchy listed for 800 million credits and think that’s what they will get for it. But just because something is listed for that price doesn’t mean anyone is buying it for that price. When you are dealing with high value items like that, you have two options: 1. Sell it much cheaper and sell it fast. 2. Be extremely patient and try to maximize your sale price. If you list something like that for 100 million, you may actually sell it quickly. If you want 500 million or more, you are probably going to have to wait for just the right moment when no others are listed and someone with deep pockets just has to have it right then.

 

For crafted stuff, you really have to just find a market and make it yours. Years ago before all the server merges when I was playing multiple toons in all the endgame content, I stayed in credits by crafting and selling implants. The only way I really got a steady income out of it was by crafting implants for all levels of player. That was back when individual classes had their own main stat (aim, wisdom, etc.), which meant I needed to craft several types of mods for each level. It was like a second job. But if you really want to make bank, that’s the kind of effort it took. I don’t know if that’s still true, though. I’ve just come back after being away from the game for years, and the economy is much different now. Everything sells for a lot more than it used to.

Yeah, CM gear is often over priced and people list at the highest undercut unless they “know” the true market value from selling and buying them all the time.

I try not to get involved with CM stuff because its fickle and I’ve been burnt buying at the wrong price.

The safest GTN trading is still on crafted items and once you have a bit of a bank behind you, you dont even need to craft as much because you can buy the items the undercutters sell and then relist higher.

Obviously the more bank you have, the more risk and quantity you can buy. I often buy out the whole market. Even items that may seem reasonably priced because the really low priced stuff off sets the higher price. Then I list 50-100% higher. Even if I only sell half my goods, I’ve still covered my costs and made credits for zero work. If someone decides to significantly under cut me while I’m watching, I just buy their stuff too so I can control the market price.

That’s how I know what people will actually pay and what the fast moving goods are. If I can buy the whole market up on an item and list it 100% higher and it sells fast, I know the price is still too low. I keep raising the price till it slows down and then I relist it 10% lower than my highest price to find the sweet spot. On high demand items I can usually sell everything I purchased and have to crafT myself to keep up with demand.

And sure enough, if I go do something for 20-30mins, some foolish undercutters will drop the price 50-80% again and start a price war with 3-4 other people and flood the market with 5-10 pages of them. But if I had stayed there and purchased the first under cutters price and stayed on top of it, I can sell them all day at the price I set.

As an example, last week I was sick and couldn’t play content very well. So I sat on the GTN for 8 hours straight while watching TV. I controlled only two high demand dye colours I don’t craft and during the 8 hours I “made” 100 mil credits after costs.

When I logged in the next day, there were 25 pages of those dyes for 30% of what I’d been selling them for the day before (and had trouble keeping up with demand). Each seller had listed 8+ dyes each and flooded the market. Where if they all listed closer to the price I did the day before, they would only have needed to list 3 to make the same credits and they wouldn’t have flooded the market. Then everyone would have made credits too. To this day, those dyes have not gone back up in price and the market is still flooded from last week.

Yeah, CM gear is often over priced and people list at the highest undercut unless they “know” the true market value from selling and buying them all the time.

 

I try not to get involved with CM stuff because its fickle and I’ve been burnt buying at the wrong price.

The safest GTN trading is still on crafted items and once you have a bit of a bank behind you, you dont even need to craft as much because you can buy the items the undercutters sell and then relist higher.

 

Obviously the more bank you have, the more risk and quantity you can buy. I often buy out the whole market. Even items that may seem reasonably priced because the really low priced stuff off sets the higher price. Then I list 50-100% higher. Even if I only sell half my goods, I’ve still covered my costs and made credits for zero work. If someone decides to significantly under cut me while I’m watching, I just buy their stuff too so I can control the market price.

 

That’s how I know what people will actually pay and what the fast moving goods are. If I can buy the whole market up on an item and list it 100% higher and it sells fast, I know the price is still too low. I keep raising the price till it slows down and then I relist it 10% lower than my highest price to find the sweet spot. On high demand items I can usually sell everything I purchased and have to crafT myself to keep up with demand.

 

And sure enough, if I go do something for 20-30mins, some foolish undercutters will drop the price 50-80% again and start a price war with 3-4 other people and flood the market with 5-10 pages of them. But if I had stayed there and purchased the first under cutters price and stayed on top of it, I can sell them all day at the price I set.

 

As an example, last week I was sick and couldn’t play content very well. So I sat on the GTN for 8 hours straight while watching TV. I controlled only two high demand dye colours I don’t craft and during the 8 hours I “made” 100 mil credits after costs.

When I logged in the next day, there were 25 pages of those dyes for 30% of what I’d been selling them for the day before (and had trouble keeping up with demand). Each seller had listed 8+ dyes each and flooded the market. Where if they all listed closer to the price I did the day before, they would only have needed to list 3 to make the same credits and they wouldn’t have flooded the market. Then everyone would have made credits too. To this day, those dyes have not gone back up in price and the market is still flooded from last week.

One of the reasons why I liked having multiple crafting skills & multiple items to sell. It enables you to switch between items to list and still earn lots of credits if a couple sellers come along that list so low on one item and in such quantity that they've trashed the market. Eventually prices will raise back to where they were before or those sellers will move on/disappear, and you get back into selling the original item. I used to swap between Synthweaving, Artifice, Armstech, and Armortech and with each tree had several items that were reliable sales.

I was never a big fan of buying out dirt cheap crafted items and relisting because with crafted items there is always a risk that someone else or the person you bought out will come along and relist again at a price that isn't worth crafting. I've done it a few times and can be a good way of earning a lot, but IMO that only tends to work when there is a high probability the seller you bought out won't be online for several hours. Early morning in the server time zone for instance. A lot of times its just better to let the cheap items stay where they are and switch to crafting someone else for a bit.

The relist game is better with Cartel Market items. It's easier to control the market on an item there.

One of the reasons why I liked having multiple crafting skills & multiple items to sell. It enables you to switch between items to list and still earn lots of credits if a couple sellers come along that list so low on one item and in such quantity that they've trashed the market. Eventually prices will raise back to where they were before or those sellers will move on/disappear, and you get back into selling the original item. I used to swap between Synthweaving, Artifice, Armstech, and Armortech and with each tree had several items that were reliable sales.

 

I was never a big fan of buying out dirt cheap crafted items and relisting because with crafted items there is always a risk that someone else or the person you bought out will come along and relist again at a price that isn't worth crafting. I've done it a few times and can be a good way of earning a lot, but IMO that only tends to work when there is a high probability the seller you bought out won't be online for several hours. Early morning in the server time zone for instance. A lot of times its just better to let the cheap items stay where they are and switch to crafting someone else for a bit.

 

The relist game is better with Cartel Market items. It's easier to control the market on an item there.

I just do it on dyes cause I’m a bit lazy. And there are more than enough colours and if I have to, I just buy the market out. I’ve deep pockets now and spending 10 mil to clear the market and reset the price is a drop in the ocean,

I’ve a whole private guild dedicated to storing dyes. I’ve 8 tabs opened up

I just do it on dyes cause I’m a bit lazy. And there are more than enough colours and if I have to, I just buy the market out. I’ve deep pockets now and spending 10 mil to clear the market and reset the price is a drop in the ocean,

I’ve a whole private guild dedicated to storing dyes. I’ve 8 tabs opened up

Fair enough! Dyes are one market I've never really messed around with seriously.

Long term buyer though due to laziness of my own. Probably contributed to some of your fortune.

I just don’t get the market for dyes.

Space Barbies.

Space Barbies.

Hey! Don't be a hater. Some of us like to look good while killing shtT.

Hey! Don't be a hater. Some of us like to look good while killing shtT.

Definitely not a hater. I’m a space barbie queen

43 Alts with 16 outfits opened on each is 688 outfits. I also have 18 pages of unlocked CM outfits (it could be more, Ive stopped paying attention).

Here are some really old designs from last years fashion season

https://imgur.com/gallery/9eidTna

https://imgur.com/gallery/UqWAdCo

And when I get bored waiting for pvp pops, the dancing queen is always ready

https://imgur.com/gallery/zeSVJ5y

Definitely not a hater. I’m a space barbie queen

 

43 Alts with 16 outfits opened on each is 688 outfits. I also have 18 pages of unlocked CM outfits (it could be more, Ive stopped paying attention).

 

Here are some really old designs from last years fashion season

https://imgur.com/gallery/9eidTna

https://imgur.com/gallery/UqWAdCo

 

And when I get bored waiting for pvp pops, the dancing queen is always ready

https://imgur.com/gallery/zeSVJ5y

Some of those outfits offer practically no protection from blaster fire.

Some of those outfits offer practically no protection from blaster fire.

Edit: Actual blaster fire. Not intended as innuendo.

It’s funny to me how much of the market seems to be for vanity stuff now. Back in the day (the year or two after launch), you crafted items for better stats than people could get from dropped gear. People still craft mods, but I just don’t get the market for dyes.

Any true Jedi or Sith knows that it's not enough to defeat Malgus physically, you have to defeat him fashionably if you want to truly conquer the universe.

Some of those outfits offer practically no protection from blaster fire.

I use the force and a devastating smile to protect me from blaster fire. But if they have a Lightsabre, I just show a bit of flesh to distract them while I drive my light sabre through their spine

I use the force and a devastating smile to protect me from blaster fire. But if they have a Lightsabre, I just show a bit of flesh to distract them while I drive my light sabre through their spine

Ooh. So Machiavellian. I knew I liked you.

It’s funny to me how much of the market seems to be for vanity stuff now. Back in the day (the year or two after launch), you crafted items for better stats than people could get from dropped gear. People still craft mods, but I just don’t get the market for dyes.

People always liked their character to look good (or silly, those exist too), or at least most did. The main difference at launch was that outfit tabs had yet to be added, so your character only had one outfit and it had to be one that was useful unless you wanted to melt.

There was also no Cartel Market and much less variety in what could be crafted.

If the game had released with Outfit Designer and the great variety of outfits from various sources (useful or not) as well as dyes....no doubt it would be just as popular as now.

It’s funny to me how much of the market seems to be for vanity stuff now. Back in the day (the year or two after launch), you crafted items for better stats than people could get from dropped gear. People still craft mods, but I just don’t get the market for dyes.

While I've done my fair share of crafting for stats, I'm largely on the other end of the spectrum. On my first character I hated not being able to keep my look consistent while leveling, wearing mismatched drops because I needed to. Stats are a means to an end, but I'd take crappy stats under at least three carefully assembled outfits (fighting clothes, casual outfit, special occasions) per character over BiS gear every time.

Keep those clothes and dyes coming!

Definitely not a hater. I’m a space barbie queen

 

43 Alts with 16 outfits opened on each is 688 outfits. I also have 18 pages of unlocked CM outfits (it could be more, Ive stopped paying attention).

 

Here are some really old designs from last years fashion season

https://imgur.com/gallery/9eidTna

https://imgur.com/gallery/UqWAdCo

 

And when I get bored waiting for pvp pops, the dancing queen is always ready

https://imgur.com/gallery/zeSVJ5y

I'm not a fan of derailing threads, but this post is an exception.

Most of the outfits here are very good and I will be stealing some of your ideas! The dancing queen one certainly stands out. Great job!