I did say we killed him right?

Before the bug appeared, it did not kill you if you were 10 m from the boss before the pull, now you loose a lot of health just because you are not next to the boss, this is what you are seeing in that log by the way.

If you are supposed to stack your raid right next to the boss before the pull, than that is in my eyes already a failed and badly desigend mechanic.

16 man was a joke. The mechanic wasn't even working as intended on 16 man until this week. Even in KP and EV 16 man was significantly easier. 16 man has never been harder than 8 man. Anyone who says so is simply wrong.

 

Our progression group runs 8 man, while our lower level groups (in mostly columi) have done 16 man. We don't even bother.

Clearly you've never tried to manage 16 people before. If I could get characters to do their best DPS on their own without prodding I could probably do 8 man encounters by myself controlling 8 characters with micro, that would be much more difficult with 16 characters.

Nothing about this game or any other MMO is hard other than people management, anyone who believes otherwise is wrong. Of the hardest unnerfed fights in MMO history, if you look to the core of why they're hard, it's not a single mechanic, it's the micromanagement of more people.

That's why 16 man will always be harder than 8 man unless they intentionally make it easier. Sure, maybe one mechanic on Kephiss in 8 man is "harder", harder being a relative term, going from a 1 to a 2 on the difficulty scale between 1-100. In general, all the other fights are harder in 16 man. People who disagree just show their ignorance.

If you are supposed to stack your raid right next to the boss before the pull, than that is in my eyes already a failed and badly desigend mechanic.

Why? That makes it fun. Like stacking on the droid in EV nightmare 16 man for heals during aoe since you can't hide and make the enrage timer like you could in 8 man.

If people are still getting pulled to the boss you're doing it wrong.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I already said we didn't abuse line of sight and still managed to kill him.

LoSing the pull is possible, but we decided against it, as it is obviously not intended and might get fixed soon.

We got pulled in.

Our progression group runs 8 man, while our lower level groups (in mostly columi) have done 16 man. We don't even bother.

Your loss. If our progression group did 8 man we would have been done in 45 minutes instead of the 2 nights it took us to clear. Fortunately the ranking sites show 16 man by default, since 16 man is really the only achievement of value and 8 man can be done in a very small amount of time in comparison.

When learning the fights for the first time on the PTS, the only one that took any time at all was Z&T, because of all the "punch back" that occured. Other than that every fight took less than 1.5 hours on hard mode 8 man, including your beloved 'Kephiss' that you claim is so hard on 8 man, but we killed in 3 attempts the first time we pulled it on 8 man when learning. We honestly couldn't figure out what was different about the fight except interrupt droids P1, more DPS into bombs, and if you don't run out of purple stuff it's bad.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I already said we didn't abuse line of sight and still managed to kill him.

LoSing the pull is possible, but we decided against it, as it is obviously not intended and might get fixed soon.

We got pulled in.

Really? Why get pulled in. Stack on the bosses butt and angle your raid to run to the same spot. You could even have sorcs throw down healing puddles preemptively so the whole raid knows where to run to when the ground turns purple. Getting pulled in would greatly increase the amount of human error in reaction time. I'd think the best thing to do would have everyone speed to one spot, using predation and having a sorc use force speed to get there first and grip a sniper into the puddle so he could use blast shield and everyone would take significantly reduced damage.

Of course, this is just a theoretical perspective, haven't tried to implement it yet.

Your loss. If our progression group did 8 man we would have been done in 45 minutes instead of the 3 nights it took us to clear. Fortunately the ranking sites show 16 man by default, since 16 man is really the only achievement of value and 8 man can be done in a very small amount of time in comparison.

1. It shows 16 man by default yes. Does it mean anything? No. The fact that you would weigh 16 man as being more difficult based on that observation is hilarious.

2. Look at the clear times for 16 man vs 8 man. 16 man raids were cleared much faster than 8 man. And Nerf Dialogue had just as much practice on the PTR as Millennium did. There are also almost twice as many guilds running 8 man raids in the world. You would think their clear times would be way quicker than 16 especially if it only takes "45 mins with pugs" as you said.

3. Looking at your site you haven't even listed any 8 man progress in EC. So you basically lied about clearing 8 man. Before you make up some line about it being unworthy or something, take note you happen to mark down your 8 msn progress for EV and KP,

You guys did an awesome job with the 16 man content. Honestly, congratulations to you. Now don't **** on everyone else by saying that the raid they choose to run is a joke. 8 man was significantly harder (probably now just as hard since the change to 16 man) simply due to the Kephess bug at the end.

Really? Why get pulled in. Stack on the bosses butt and angle your raid to run to the same spot. You could even have sorcs throw down healing puddles preemptively so the whole raid knows where to run to when the ground turns purple. Getting pulled in would greatly increase the amount of human error in reaction time. I'd think the best thing to do would have everyone speed to one spot, using predation and having a sorc use force speed to get there first and grip a sniper into the puddle so he could use blast shield and everyone would take significantly reduced damage.

 

Of course, this is just a theoretical perspective, haven't tried to implement it yet.

I thought you were talking about LoSing the pull(avoiding it completely), and not about stacking on the boss(reducing pull distance). Never mind then.

1. It shows 16 man by default yes. Does it mean anything? No. The fact that you would weigh 16 man as being more difficult based on that observation is hilarious.

 

2. Look at the clear times for 16 man vs 8 man. 16 man raids were cleared much faster than 8 man. And Nerf Dialogue had just as much practice on the PTR as Millennium did. There are also almost twice as many guilds running 8 man raids in the world. You would think their clear times would be way quicker than 16 especially if it only takes "45 mins with pugs" as you said.

 

3. Looking at your site you haven't even listed any 8 man progress in EC. So you basically lied about clearing 8 man. Before you make up some line about it being unworthy or something, take note you happen to mark down your 8 msn progress for EV and KP,

 

 

You guys did an awesome job with the 16 man content. Honestly, congratulations to you. Now don't **** on everyone else by saying that the raid they choose to run is a joke. 8 man was significantly harder (probably now just as hard since the change to 16 man) simply due to the Kephess bug at the end.

We didn't report our 8 man progress because we thought it was a joke. We cleared 8 man on PTS in a pug with little to no effort and less than 4 hours of time spent on it... And it got nerfed before it went to live.

The reason 16 man got cleared prior to 8, is because all the 16 man guilds that cleared fast did 8 mans on the PTS and we switched to 16 because we've played other MMOs and we realize that 16 man is the standard for recruiting and by which world ranking is judged.

I could post screenshots of 8, or report 8 man kills, but why when I've reported 16 mans? That seems redundant and unnecessary, since to me it seems that 16 man is what people should be working towards.

As far as I'm concerned the only "kill" that matters in this whole wave of content is 16 man tanks. On a scale of 1-100, it's might be a 4, but is more like a 3 in difficulty; wheras everything else is at best a 2.

As far as I'm concerned the only "kill" that matters in this whole wave of content is 16 man tanks. On a scale of 1-100, it's might be a 4, but is more like a 3 in difficulty; wheras everything else is at best a 2.

Well I'm glad that's as far as your concerned. You are entitled to your opinion. But really nothing you stated has any factual evidence. Pts =/= live. But again. Congrats on the progress, but it says nothing towards one raid being harder than the other.

Well I'm glad that's as far as your concerned. You are entitled to your opinion. But really nothing you stated has any factual evidence. Pts =/= live. But again. Congrats on the progress, but it says nothing towards one raid being harder than the other.

I mean seriously, do you actually think there is any one thing that is challenging about anything they've released? I'd love to hear it, and why it's difficult.

My point of view is, if there isn't anything difficult, then the only difficulty becomes managing more people.

I mean seriously, do you actually think there is any one thing that is challenging about anything they've released? I'd love to hear it, and why it's difficult.

 

My point of view is, if there isn't anything difficult, then the only difficulty becomes managing more people.

Challenging? Not really. The bug on Kephess was the only think that made it difficult, but we still downed him regardless. Having more people to manage isnt a challenge for us. The damage and healing output for 16 though hasn't been tailored properly making it an absolute joke to run.

Challenging? Not really. The bug on Kephess was the only think that made it difficult, but we still downed him regardless. Having more people to manage isnt a challenge for us. The damage and healing output for 16 though hasn't been tailored properly making it an absolute joke to run.

I feel that same way about 8 man. Healing 8 man is a vacation compared to 16 man as far as I'm concerned. A sorc puddle and prebubbling heals anything in 8 man, in 16 you actually have to use other abilities.

And having more people to manage always will be a challenge unless you control each and every one of them. More rocks to dodge on Z&T, more bubbles to go to on tanks, less places to stand on vorgath(this is actually way more of an impact than you'd think), and way more accidental things that can happen on Kephiss.

All the things I've said though are human error related, and, human error is the only thing challenging about any of this content. More humans, greater possibility for human error. And in 8 man you get 1 battle rez, in 16 man you get 1 battle rez. More forgiveness factor for 8 man.

So has anyone been able to clear 16m hm kephess since they "fixed" gift of the masters in this week's patch? I've seen a lot of theories and my guild has tried some of them with varying degrees of success. Kinda stupid that Bioware supposedly "fixed" 16m hard mode this week and only really managed to bug it out similar to 8m...

Yes, quite a few.

I feel that same way about 8 man. Healing 8 man is a vacation compared to 16 man as far as I'm concerned. A sorc puddle and prebubbling heals anything in 8 man, in 16 you actually have to use other abilities.

 

And having more people to manage always will be a challenge unless you control each and every one of them. More rocks to dodge on Z&T, more bubbles to go to on tanks, less places to stand on vorgath(this is actually way more of an impact than you'd think), and way more accidental things that can happen on Kephiss.

 

All the things I've said though are human error related, and, human error is the only thing challenging about any of this content. More humans, greater possibility for human error. And in 8 man you get 1 battle rez, in 16 man you get 1 battle rez. More forgiveness factor for 8 man.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Although to you battle rez comment, 16 would get more stealth rez's. But I do see the point of human error. Poor 16 man guilds who have a difficult time coordinating would find the content significantly harder.

Overall EC was a letdown. The mechanics were more in depth than EV/KP, but still lacking in difficulty. Here's to hoping NiM changes that for us.

So has anyone been able to clear 16m hm kephess since they "fixed" gift of the masters in this week's patch? I've seen a lot of theories and my guild has tried some of them with varying degrees of success. Kinda stupid that Bioware supposedly "fixed" 16m hard mode this week and only really managed to bug it out similar to 8m...

Yes, sniper shields and aoe heal. Real hard.

As for EC being a let down, it's hard mode. Who cares?

Our guild has killed him on 8 Man Hardmode but you need 2x Gunslinger for bubble + Best prototype medpac in game.

If it wasnt for the fact you need 2x bubble, I would say dont nerf it ^^

You should not have said that. They will fix the stacking Slinger bubbles before they fix the boss.

You should not have said that. They will fix the stacking Slinger bubbles before they fix the boss.

It's been that way since the beginning. Pre-nerf nightmare anni anyone? BW is aware.

Has anyone successfully done this portion of the encounter WITHOUT a sniper?

Yes, our group got him in HM tonight.

Composition:

Tanks:

- Powertech

- Assassin

DPS:

- Vengeance Juggernaut (myself)

- Arsenal BH (x2)

- Annih Marauder

Healers:

- Operative

- Bounty Hunter

(Armor debuffs op?)

We didn't really need to resort to any MAJOR hijinks to deal with the damage, while members of the raid did take damage ticks outside the purple area (a bug that really DOES need a fix), popping defensive cds and medpacks mitigated the brunt of the damage that we took. When he got near 60% our marauder popped predation and we sprinted out. No fancy AoE healing or Sorc pulls or sniper bubbles nonsense, it was all about maintaining game sense. and keeping on your toes.

BW is aware.

HAHA good one! Is it opposite day?