Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

How BioWare is ruining Role Play...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content > Roleplaying
How BioWare is ruining Role Play...

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
03.06.2012 , 02:41 PM | #21
I am a roleplayer and I find these changes, for the most part, a good thing. Color crystal restrictions were a bad idea. NOWHERE in SW lore/canon are Jedi restricted from using red sabers and Sith restricted from using blue, green or any other color. You don't like the removal of these restrictions there is a simple solution...RP your character YOUR way.

Sith Pureblood as Jedi is a little odd but it IS possible, however slim the chance. A true roleplayer keeps an open mind. If the other player comes up with a good story about their character then you shouldn't have a problem. A good RP'er should also want to help others deveolp their stories. Don't be so closed minded.

Finally we get to the new abilities. You do realize that those abilities are restricted to PVE, with a companion, used in conjunction with your HEROIC MOMENT ability which has a 20 minute cooldown, right? It's not like a BH is going to choke out their enemies every 10 seconds. There is a simple solution to this..if you do not like it then DON'T use it. You aren't required to assign your character any new abillities, it is just an option.

Bioware is trying to improve roleplay. Give them time to improve the community/rp aspect of this game. Two and a half months is not much time.

Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
03.06.2012 , 03:07 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
[COLOR="Red"][B][B]Sith Pureblood as Jedi is a little odd but it IS possible, however slim the chance. A true roleplayer keeps an open mind. If the other player comes up with a good story about their character then you shouldn't have a problem. A good RP'er should also want to help others deveolp their stories. Don't be so closed minded.
The problem lies within "slim chance". I personally would have a very hard time to accept ONE person's story.. but to accept the dozen of dozens of Sith Pureblood Jedi Knight stories is going to be nigh impossible to swallow.

And this is assuming that those dozen of dozens of stories will be good. Less is more and it's better to do the easy things good than complicated things badly.

DarthRavnos's Avatar


DarthRavnos
03.06.2012 , 03:13 PM | #23
And I quote, pay close attention to the highlighted portion...

Quote:
Though synthetic crystals were ordinarily unsuitable for use in lightsabers, the Sith discovered that they could create synth-crystals that were energized, magnetized, and modified with the power of the dark side of the Force in special furnaces, causing the crystal to glow in harmonic vibration.

Most synthetic crystals were red, a result of the forging process, and oftentimes the initiate's intentional manipulations, as most individuals who utilized synthetic crystals were Darksiders. The red-hued lightsaber blades generated by such crystals were often nicknamed "bloodshine blades".
And...

Quote:
Darths Revan and Malak followed suit when they rose to power, making the usage of red-crystals widespread among their Sith followers. Due to their common use within Revan's Sith Empire, red-hued crystals were marked as the staple of Darksiders.
So, what you are telling me is BioWare was in the wrong to have a Dark Side restriction on a red lightsaber crystal? Please... I am not even going to debate this any further.

And for the folks saying to pretend the Force Choke is something else. If it quacks like a duck... and walks like a duck. It sure as **** isn't a moose.
"Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning."
~Bill Gates
"...itís important to remember your competitor is only one mouse click away."
~Doug Warner

Sylriana's Avatar


Sylriana
03.06.2012 , 03:38 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRavnos View Post
And I quote, pay close attention to the highlighted portion...



And...



So, what you are telling me is BioWare was in the wrong to have a Dark Side restriction on a red lightsaber crystal? Please...
Your quote cites tradition and general themes, it does not at any point state a rule (notice the use of words like "most" rather than words like "always").

The point stands that alignment requirement on crystals goes against established SW canon (where Sith sometimes use blue and Jedi sometimes use red). Pointing out what's normal and what's possible are significantly different things, and I'm not sure why people have so much trouble understanding that.

Nevermind that if we really wanted to get serious about lore based coloration, we'd restrict guardians to blue, sages to green, and sentinels/shadows and all Sith to red to yellow regardless of alignment, since those are the traditional colors for those subclasses.

Since you like to quote... Here's one for you from some Jedi knight:
Quote:
I don't need to remind you that a crimson blade doesn't guarantee that a wielder is Sith...A crimson blade can owe to nothing more than a synthetic power crystal. Then crimson is just a color
Worse, that quote is from the top of the same page you're taking your own.

Further down the same page it notes that Jedi were "discouraged from using them", but at no point does it every say that a Jedi was unable to use one, or imply that said discouragement was anything enforced as a rule.


I guess I just can't understand why someone would get so worked up over the idea that someone else's character might behave or look different than their preconceived notion of an archetype. Sure, maybe if the character is played terribly, but that's not the point of contention here.


Quote:
I am not even going to debate this any further.
One might wonder why you'd make a discussion thread on a topic if you're unwilling to actually discuss the topic. Were you just hoping for an echo chamber?

Quote:
And for the folks saying to pretend the Force Choke is something else. If it quacks like a duck... and walks like a duck. It sure as **** isn't a moose.
Improvisation and Abstraction ("It's not force lightning, it's a wrist mounted pulse cannon") and compartmentalization ("Ignore that IC, it's not RP relevant") are both pretty significant tools for RPing in general, and especially so in RPing over a medium like a video game. To be entirely blunt, if you have trouble with those, maybe this isn't for you.

DarthRavnos's Avatar


DarthRavnos
03.06.2012 , 03:55 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Sylriana View Post
Your quote cites... Blah, Blah, Blah
You need to seriously go watch the movies, read the books, and in your case I would even recommend the Clone Wars cartoons. Because again, you have no clue what you are talking about and are in denial.

It is clearly defined that the red synthetic crystals are forged partially through the use of the Dark Side and actually become stronger when the user flows Dark Side energy through the crystal (such as during combat). As was CLEARLY shown in the quotation I provided this was detailed.

You can rest assured that a Sith Pureblood "Jedi Consular" who is max Light Side yet wields a Dark Side forged synthetic red crystal lightsaber whilst chilling out outside the doors of the Jedi Council and sporting the title of Jedi Master... is wrong. To believe anything else is to show your ignorance of the Star Wars universe.

Believe it or not. And that is all.
"Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning."
~Bill Gates
"...itís important to remember your competitor is only one mouse click away."
~Doug Warner

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
03.06.2012 , 04:01 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Majspuffen View Post
The problem lies within "slim chance". I personally would have a very hard time to accept ONE person's story.. but to accept the dozen of dozens of Sith Pureblood Jedi Knight stories is going to be nigh impossible to swallow.

And this is assuming that those dozen of dozens of stories will be good. Less is more and it's better to do the easy things good than complicated things badly.
I do agree it may be hard to accept the stories people come up with regarding this. All I am saying is we should give people a chance. I would believe a few PBs becoming Jedi or even just joining the Republic.

Katiroth's Avatar


Katiroth
03.06.2012 , 04:58 PM | #27
As a roleplayer, I am absolutely thrilled over this! Several of my characters have reasonable IC reasons for not having the "traditional" colors, partially because they're just that. Traditional. But not mandatory. One of my Jedi is traditional, and she'll just be sporting a blue one, but my LS Assassin? Until I can get a purple, she's using a yellow because I was restricted from the red. Now she'll be able to blend in better....though admittedly, the lack of darkside corruption is something of a giveaway.

I do not see how, in any way, this is ruining roleplay. Beside, those people who are gonna be playing purebloods in the republic are likely to have an amazing story behind it if they're roleplayers. And if they aren't roleplayers? Well... you wouldn't be playing with them anyway.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
03.06.2012 , 06:05 PM | #28
I couldn't care less what color lightsabres good and evil use.

I think the heroic unlock thing is stupid but nobody seems to RP when adventuring anyway so who cares?

Good and Evil are identical in this game as far as game mechanics go. For example, a Jedi Sentinel is identical in every respect to a Sith Marauder. The abilities are identical. The skill trees are identical. The only differences are in label text and graphics. They are "good Ranger" and "bad Ranger". If that doesn't affect your RP, how will these minor changes affect it?

Darth_Slaine's Avatar


Darth_Slaine
03.06.2012 , 06:30 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
Thank God I dont RP on Republic side...enjoy your sith pureblood jedis...thats gonna be really *********** awkward "I SLAIN OVER 100 JEDIS BUT NOW I AM ONE BECAUSE THE FORCE TOLD ME TO DO GOOD HHUUUUHRUHRUHRUHREUHREURHEU :B!"
Quote: Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
I mean..SURE if they RP the pureblood becoming a Jedi effectively then they'll fit but I predict it'll be with the same stigmata that Death Knight rpers got in WoW.

It is not very honest to say you simply predict they will be stigmatized while you have already begun attempting to stigmatize the concept (see your first quote). It is better to reserve judgment until you have cause to complain -- and even then I fail to see how someone else's RP concept impacts your gameplay.

For those who object to the changes, my suggestion would be to refrain from taking advantage of them. Don't have your IA use Force Choke. Don't change your color crystals. Problem solved.

There is no reason to be concerned about anyone's roleplay but your own. And we must be careful not to negatively judge new RP concepts that are now supported by canon simply because we don't like them.

I haven't seen a link to the Jedi Sith pureblood info though... can anyone direct me to the rest of the changes that are causing such an uproar?

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
03.06.2012 , 08:27 PM | #30
Blue is the tradiional saber colour of a Jedi Guardian...Jedi who were more 'assertive'/outward-directed by temperament and focused their training more on developing outer skills including the intricacies of combative use of the lightsaber and less on inner development including intricacies of understanding and using the Force...thus a particular common colour of Ilum/Adegan crystal powered blade came to be known as "Guardian Blue".

Green is the traditional saber colour of a Jedi Consular...Jedi who were more 'pacifist'/inward-directed by temperament and focused their training more on inner development including intracacies of understanding and using the Force and less on outer skills including the intricacies of combative use of the lightsaber...thus a particular common colour of Ilum/Adegan crystal powered blade came to be known as "Consular Green".

Basically these represent a traditional Jedi religious/philosophical distinction between exoteric and esoteric mindsets and behaviours.

Yellow is the colour of the Jedi Sentinel...Jedi who sought out corruption and were more balanced in temperament and sought a balance in training between exoteric studies of lightsaber combatives and esoteric studies of the Force...thus the less common yellow coloured crystal powered blade came to be known as "Sentinel Yellow" in the Old Jedi Order.

Jedi Sentinels do however appear to have vanished completely sometime before the reformation of the Old Jedi Order in the wake of the Battle Of Ruusan, 1000 years before the Battle Of Yavin in SW Ep IV ANH. Certainly by the time of the Battle Of Geonosis in SW Ep II AOTC and the Temple Purge in SW EpIII ROTS there are no yellow bladed lightsabers and therefore perhaps no Jedi Sentinels to be seen.

It is important to understand that even in the pre-Ruusan-reformation Jedi Order of the Old Republic the 'class' colour of a Jedi's lightsaber was not fixed for life...rather it was only their FIRST lightsaber crystal given to them by a panel of Masters to build their FIRST lightsaber with after an oral examination to determine their temperament and which direction of training would thus be best for them...once a Jedi had completed his training he was completely free to replace his given colour crystal with a different coloured crystal of his own choosing at any time...the colours were only 'tradition' of a Jedi's training as Guardian, Consular or Sentinel and Jedi Knights were not 'bound' by them, though they might choose to continue that path and saber colour if and as they wished.

In the Old Republic there were also many rare coloured crystals that could be found as well, including Orange, Gold, Bronze, Cyan [Sunriders Destiny] and Viridian [described as a silverish green] as well as a pure silver-white [Adegan Silver] if they wished to change their initial colour crystal for personal reasons.


And of course that included PURPLE/violet crystals that had become extremely rare by the post-Ruusan era and became most famous among Jedi as the purple 'Hurikaine crystal' used by Master Windu who created Vaapad, the even more aggressive perfected variant of ancient Lightsaber Combat Form VII Juyo...purple, being a chromatic cross between 'Guardian' blue' and 'Sith' Red reminded Windu of the constant danger of a Fall that treading close to the Dark Side that Vaapad's hyper aggressive form required and channeled into its ferocious effectiveness.

Grey Jedi unlike Order Jedi have always done as they pleased including using any unconventional saber crystal colours without regard or consideration of tradition.

Dark Jedi likewise though many, but not all, favoured various red shades for reasons similar to the Sith.

The Sith Order of course have always used a particular shade of bright Red that signifies Passion to them, Passion being a particular Sith Code value they seek to enhance in themselves. This colour was uniform as Sith developed a particular process of producing slightly more powerful synthetic ligthsaber crystals, since the Old Jedi Order had controlled most of the natural supply. That process produced a uniform shade of red crystal powered blade that came to be associated with the Sith.

It is important to also understand that by the time of the New Jedi Order in the wake of SW EpVI ROTJ with its final destruction of the Old Sith Order as well as the Old Jedi Order that all traditional associations with colour had completely broken down and therefore later NJO Jedi used whatever colour crystal they wanted [or could find, or make as Luke did, since saber crystals were harder to come by after the Purge] with no 'traditional' associations whatsoever. Even red shade lightsabers were used by Jedi of the NJO
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Guild Roleplays: http://republicexplorerscorp.enjin.com/activity
Referral Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/vLlZlR